Controversial Pot Calling Kettle Black (Nutshell)

[NAMELESS]

Majority of scholars and academia says Fascism is a far right ideology since it aligns perfectly with right wing ideology taken to the extreme, and completely contradicts the goals and values of leftism even taken the extreme.

Those that claim Fascism is leftist is due to Joseph Stalin, who introduced his own variation of a communist state called Stalinism which is a totalitarian, one-party dislike Fascism.



Who seeks the death of an ethnic group of people? We here are ultranationalist? Who here believes in racial purity? Who here is a nazi? You claimed it so you gotta back it up(this isn't bullying btw).

First, I called all of you Fascists, not Nazis. Learn to read. Second, learn proper grammar. Communism, Fascism, and Nazism have historically been against Capitalism, Conservatism, and Christianity. They are collectivist ideologies. They are authoritarian. They practiced and preached heavy state control over economic matters. Their only differences are their supposed ideologies, narratives, and symbols. Meaning, their main differences are aesthetical and rhetorical. In practice, they have all been very similar in their way of ruling.
Historically, most academics have been leftist. It is only natural for them to gaslight us about history. They are the same people convincing fools out there that men can turn into women. Anyone of good faith can see that when dissected, all three ideologies are more similar to each other than to anything in the right-wing political spectrum.
So far, your only argument has been "my academic definitions." You didn't address a single point I made. Proof conclusively that Fascism and Nazism are right-wing ideologies. All you have to work with are rhetorical and aesthetical aspects. Public administration and common enemies>>>Aesthetics and rhetoric. "By the fruits you shall know the tree". Any mother will tell their kids to observe people's action instead of their words. Communism, Fascism and Nazism have all given similar fruits.

 

[Uncle Van]

First, I called all of you Fascists, not Nazis. Learn to read.

Make no mistake, all of you are fascists. You are just under the illusion that your ideology is different from Fascism (and Nazism), because you guys have been brainwashed by a totally pro-left and biased narrative of historical events.

You saying we want the complete annihilation of an ethnic group of people?

Well, not all of you, but some of you definetly want Israel and Jews to be destroyed. One of you even openly says this here.

Reaching pathological liar territory...

 

[NAMELESS]

Reaching pathological liar territory...

Logiko and others have said that about Israel in here, my guy. Nazism was between () to remind you all that it is an offshoot of Fascism. Hard to explain stuff to people that can't read.

 

[Blax Blah]

Commies ( Aka Fascists) always killed each other. Even China and the Soviet Union called each other Fascist at some point. The German-Soviet pact was a thing too. Hitler and Stalin worked together for a while. The Poles remember that. The rest of Europe has gone myopic for a reason.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-soviet-pact

Well, I don't go around using racial slurs associated with banditism to sound cool like a teenage rapper. At least, I can claim that.

Use proper punctuation. No idea what you meant, but fuck you too.
@Bisoromi Bear @Toby D. Dog @Logiko @Zenos7 @Jew D. Boy @Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier @Blax Blah @Uncle Van Make no mistake, all of you are fascists. You are just under the illusion that your ideology is different from Fascism (and Nazism), because you guys have been brainwashed by a totally pro-left and biased narrative of historical events.

I meant that, if you as a child, saw you as an adult, say that, he would be horrified

Fascism is built off of a capitalist economy, libertarian leftism ( the one that makes co-operatives and unions, not the abominations of the USSR or China or authoritarian leftism ) abolishes capitalism by giving ownership of the means of production to the workers involved in production

 

[Uncle Van]

Logiko and others have said that about Israel in here, my guy. Nazism was between () to remind you all that it is an offshoot of Fascism. Hard to explain stuff to people that can't read.

Changing the goalpost again. You said our ideologies are similar to Nazism, and doubled down by saying some of us seek jew annihilation, which is also nazism.

I meant that, if you as a child, saw you as an adult, say that, he would be horrified

Fascism is built off of a capitalist economy, libertarian leftism ( the one that makes co-operatives and unions, not the abominations of the USSR or China or authoritarian leftism ) abolishes capitalism by giving ownership of the means of production to the workers involved in production

Fascism also prioritizes loyalty to the state, ultranationalism, racial purity, and social hierarchy. It is a capital-backed state that aims to protect capital through sheer force, and make the state self-sufficient.

A communist state seeks universal equality by eliminating class, capital? and state through sheer force. Stalinism adds a totalitarian one-party state and more focused centralization for that goal.

These are similar only in their authoritarian methods. Their goals and ideologies diverge completely.

 

[Blax Blah]

Changing the goalpost again. You said our ideologies are similar to Nazism, and doubled down by saying some of us seek jew annihilation, which is also nazism.



Fascism also prioritizes loyalty to the state, ultranationalism, racial purity, and social hierarchy. It is a capital-backed state that aims to protect capital through sheer force, and make the state self-sufficient.

A communist state seeks universal equality by eliminating class, capital? and state through sheer force. Stalinism adds a totalitarian one-party state and more focused centralization for that goal.

These are similar only in their authoritarian methods. Their goals and ideologies diverge completely.

I think it really matters to look at what they do, and not at what they say, and when you look at states like the USSR and China, they're really just capitalist states with maybe some social democracy, they're not socialist, otherwise it would be enough for a state to call itself socialist for it to be socialist

Socialism is about workers owning the means of production democratically, the USSR and China either put the role of the bureaucrat in place of the capitalist's former role, or they control the capitalist's investments, they don't remove that role from existing and spread its power out to the workers involved

 

[NAMELESS]

I meant that, if you as a child, saw you as an adult, say that, he would be horrified

Fascism is built off of a capitalist economy, libertarian leftism ( the one that makes co-operatives and unions, not the abominations of the USSR or China or authoritarian leftism ) abolishes capitalism by giving ownership of the means of production to the workers involved in production

Nope, false. Fascism always controlled critical and strategic sectors of the economy. This isn't capitalism. Capitalism preaches for little to no state intervention in such affairs. Also, keep in mind that you are flirting with an ideology (Marxism-Leninism) that has historically massacred Christians:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pol_Pot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union#:~:text=to disseminate atheism.-,Soviet tactics,organized religions were never outlawed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_post–Cold_War_era
https://brill.com/downloadpdf/display/book/9789004213272/Bej.9781905246472.i-264_013.pdf
https://backtojerusalem.com/which-tyrant-killed-the-most
christians/#:~:text=Joseph%20Stalin%20takes%20the%20mantle,million%2C%20accordin
https://worldhelp.net/north-korea-an-echo-of-christian-persecution-in-the-soviet union/#:~:text=Early%20leaders%20in%20the%20communist,but%20also%20their%20entire%20careers.g%20to%20some%20experts.

Changing the goalpost again. You said our ideologies are similar to Nazism, and doubled down by saying some of us seek jew annihilation, which is also nazism.



Fascism also prioritizes loyalty to the state, ultranationalism, racial purity, and social hierarchy. It is a capital-backed state that aims to protect capital through sheer force, and make the state self-sufficient.

A communist state seeks universal equality by eliminating class, capital? and state through sheer force. Stalinism adds a totalitarian one-party state and more focused centralization for that goal.

These are similar only in their authoritarian methods. Their goals and ideologies diverge completely.

You are the one constantly moving goalposts. You didn't address any of my evidence for left-wing authoritarianism, crime, and the leftist roots of Fascism and Nazism. You nailed it; their goals are different, but the way they go about things is similar, and their enemies are the same; therefore, they are more similar to left-wing ideologies than right-wing ones. They just preach different propaganda.

 

[Uncle Van]

I think it really matters to look at what they do, and not at what they say, and when you look at states like the USSR and China, they're really just capitalist states with maybe some social democracy, they're not socialist, otherwise it would be enough for a state to call itself socialist for it to be socialist

Socialism is about workers owning the means of production democratically, the USSR and China either put the role of the bureaucrat in place of the capitalist's former role, or they control the capitalist's investments, they don't remove that role from existing and spread its power out to the workers involved

This is a reason scholars get so confused even now. Authoritarians use force to achieve certain goals regardless of left or right. They all rely on a concentration of government and state and militarism to enforce their ideology.

Vladimir Lennon was a revolutionist who used Authoritarian methods, but believed the power would gradually be transferred back into the hands of the workers; first a socialist society, and then finally transitioning into a communist one. That never happend because of Joseph Stalin.

Because so many of these dictatorship was supposed to be transitional in theory, along with using the same methods, they get separated by ideology and goals.

 

[NAMELESS]

This is a reason scholars get so confused even now. Authoritarians use force to achieve certain goals regardless of left or right. They all rely on a concentration of government and state and militarism to enforce their ideology.

Vladimir Lennon was a revolutionist who used Authoritarian methods, but believed the power would gradually be transferred back into the hands of the workers; first a socialist society, and then finally transitioning into a communist one. That never happend because of Joseph Stalin.

Because so many of these dictatorship was supposed to be transitional in theory, along with using the same methods, they get separated by ideology and goals.

Communists, Fascists, and Nazis have historically fought against Capitalism, Conservatism and Christianity. This goes beyond just being authoritarian. If they are so different, why do they fight the same enemies?

 

[Mathias]

Communists, Fascists, and Nazis have historically fought against Capitalism, Conservatism and Christianity. This goes beyond just being authoritarian. If they are so different, why do they fight the same enemies?

You're beyond confused.

 

[NAMELESS]

I meant that, if you as a child, saw you as an adult, say that, he would be horrified

I had this realization about fascism, nazism and communism at around the age of 16.

Vladimir Lennon

Holy Shit! Vladimir was a Beattle? Btw, why did Herrera get banned?

I meant that, if you as a child, saw you as an adult, say that, he would be horrified

Fascism is built off of a capitalist economy, libertarian leftism ( the one that makes co-operatives and unions, not the abominations of the USSR or China or authoritarian leftism ) abolishes capitalism by giving ownership of the means of production to the workers involved in production

Libertarian leftism never existed in practice. Are we debating history or hypotheticals? Are you going to say China and USSR weren't communist, like C4N said in the past? Plz, wake the fuck up.

You're beyond confused.

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/dam/museums/hrnm/Education/EducationWebsiteRebuild/RussianPropagandaAboutGermany/Socialism, Fascism, Capitalism, Communism Background.pdf

 

[Roo]

fascism is objectively speaking anti capitalist. Read Hitler and Mussolini's manifesto's, dudes hated capitalism and believed the state should supersede any private property which is the definition of anti capitalism

 

[Blax Blah]

I had this realization about fascism, nazism and communism at around the age of 16.

Holy Shit! Vladimir was a Beattle? Btw, why did Herrera get banned?

Libertarian leftism never existed in practice. Are we debating history or hypotheticals? Are you going to say China and USSR weren't communist, like C4N said in the past? Plz, wake the fuck up.

The USSR appeared out of the bolsheviks calling for the free soviets, which were workers' councils, to be subdued to the bolshevik governement

The bolsheviks were bums who leeched off of workers' organisations, libertarian leftism did exist, and even if it never did, I think there's no reason why an economy where the workers replace the shareholders is an unpractical idea

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fascism is objectively speaking anti capitalist. Read Hitler and Mussolini's manifesto's, dudes hated capitalism and believed the state should supersede any private property which is the definition of anti capitalism

Capitalism is about there being a class of capital owners, who own capital and don't work, and a class of workers, who do all the production and own very little

Mussolini and Hitler were also lunatics so I don't think it's good to take their word for it, rather to see what they do

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"Free soviets were the basic form of organization in the Makhnovshchina. These soviets acted independently from any central authority, excluding all political parties from participation, and met to self-manage the activities of workers and peasants through participatory democracy.[1]

The soviets acted as the local organs of self-governance and federated together up to the regional and national levels, resulting in the relatively horizontal organization of the soviets."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_soviets

 

[NAMELESS]

fascism is objectively speaking anti capitalist. Read Hitler and Mussolini's manifesto's, dudes hated capitalism and believed the state should supersede any private property which is the definition of anti capitalism

So many of these Fascists were socialists or communists in their youth...go figure...

The USSR appeared out of the bolsheviks calling for the free soviets, which were workers' councils, to be subdued to the bolshevik governement

The bolsheviks were bums who leeched off of workers' organisations, libertarian leftism did exist, and even if it never did, I think there's no reason why an economy where the workers replace the shareholders is an unpractical idea

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:24 PM

Capitalism is about there being a class of capital owners, who own capital and don't work, and a class of workers, who do all the production and own very little

Mussolini and Hitler were also lunatics so I don't think it's good to take their word for it, rather to see what they do
"Free soviets were the basic form of organization in the Makhnovshchina. These soviets acted independently from any central authority, excluding all political parties from participation, and met to self-manage the activities of workers and peasants through participatory democracy.[1]

The soviets acted as the local organs of self-governance and federated together up to the regional and national levels, resulting in the relatively horizontal organization of the soviets."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_soviets

I have neither shareholders nor workers under me. Who am I getting replaced by?

 

[Roo]

So many of these Fascists were socialists or communists in their youth...go figure...

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:28 PM

I have neither shareholders nor workers under me. Who am I getting replaced by?

the problem you're having is you see anti-capitalism = socialism/communism

it's like believing anti red= blue. No, capitalism, socialism or communism arent the end all be all. If anything from what I read Mussolini wanted something more akin to feudalism where there lords is the state and the people work to live in it

 

[Blax Blah]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_council

"Some academics and socialists disputed the commitments Vladimir Lenin and Leon Trotsky had toward workers' councils after the Russian Revolution of 1917, noting that workers' councils "were never meant to become a permanent political form of self-governance" and were therefore sidelined by the Communist Party.[5][21][22][23] Some socialists have argued this as an example of the Bolsheviks' betrayal of socialist principles,[5] while others have defended it as necessary for the social conditions at the time to maintain and advance the Revolution.[24]"

 

[NAMELESS]

the problem you're having is you see anti-capitalism = socialism/communism

it's like believing anti red= blue. No, capitalism, socialism or communism arent the end all be all. If anything from what I read Mussolini wanted something more akin to feudalism where there lords is the state and the people work to live in it

There is nothing about Fascism or Nazism that screams right-wing ideology. The Soviets were nationalist and militaristic too. Scientific racism was perfectly acceptable as a fact by many Europeans at the time. No collectivist ideology can claim to be right-wing. The right wing is the antithesis of that.

 

[Roo]

Capitalism is about there being a class of capital owners, who own capital and don't work, and a class of workers, who do all the production and own very little

Capitalism at it's core is the private exchange of good and services. A capitalism exchange could be one where a guy plants a seed, grows it and exchanges it for money.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:37 PM

There is nothing about Fascism or Nazism that screams right-wing ideology. The Soviets were nationalist and militaristic too. Scientific racism was perfectly acceptable as a fact by many Europeans at the time. No collectivist ideology can claim to be right-wing. The right wing is the antithesis of that.

Fascism and Nazism are at it's core very nationalistic which is right wing

 

[Blax Blah]

Capitalism at it's core is the private exchange of good and services. A capitalism exchange could be one where a guy plants a seed, grows it and exchanges it for money.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:37 PM

Fascism and Nazism are at it's core very nationalistic which is right wing

I don't think that's a good definition, because that was possible in feudalism too

I looked up capitalism definition and I got these three:

1. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.
2. An economic system based on predominantly private (individual or corporate) investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of goods and wealth; contrasted with socialism or especially communism, in which the state has the predominant role in the economy.
   Similar: capitalist economy
3. A socio-economic system based on private property rights, including the private ownership of resources or capital, with economic decisions made largely through the operation of a market unregulated by the state.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:44 PM

The idea is this, there are two groups of people:

1. The capitalists, who own the capital and do no work, but collect profits from the work done by workers using their capital, because they own the capital

2. The workers, they own very little or nothing, and live by producing things using the capital ( like a factory ) owned by the capitalists, the capitalist takes the value the worker produces, gives some of it back as wages, and takes some of it as profit, because they own the capital so they feel entitled to profit ( despite not working or producing anything )

 

[NAMELESS]

Capitalism at it's core is the private exchange of good and services. A capitalism exchange could be one where a guy plants a seed, grows it and exchanges it for money.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:37 PM

Fascism and Nazism are at it's core very nationalistic which is right wing

So, were the Soviets, Chinese, Koreans, Cubans and so on...Nationalism isn't exclusive to the right. In fact, many dictators used nationalism as a propaganda tool to unite the people under that flag. So, yeah, I don't see nothing in Fascism and Nazism that screams right-wing, but I do see a common origin with communism and many similar traits. Imagine calling yourself right-wing and beign against Capitalism, Conservatism and Christianity.