Powers & Abilities Power Creep and Story Inconsistencies

#21
Power creep doesn’t just refer to the strength of the verse as a whole subtly increasing over time. In that regard, I think you’re right. One Piece is nothing like Dragon Ball or Naruto.

Power creep can also refer to an individual character becoming more powerful in a way that seems contrived and/or due to plot. In this sense, I think One Piece almost definitely shows signs of power creep. Luffy damaging Kaido with G3 (and potentially no ryou) when just two weeks earlier king organ did nothing is a bit much.
I know, it´s a two aspect concept

1) escalating the power limit further and further
2) elevating relevant characters to that power limit without credible explanations.

It isn´t.

1) The attack has Ryou, it´s a completely new technique, just logically, there is no reason to highlight a new technique after two week training if the first thing he does has no relation to the training at all, makes no sense

2) That´s how Kaido´s power works. He is someone who can ignore physical blows unless they can bypass his scales. This is not an Attack power issue, none of the scabbards have attack power compared to Kong Organ, yet they hurt Kaidou and Luffy didn´t, why? Because they can bypass the scales with AdvCoA.
Meaning if you are a physical fighter and not access to elemental damage, no matter what kind of attack power you have, it´s meaningless. But if you have AdvCoA, now attack power matters, so basically AdvCoA is a prerequisite to fight Kaidou.
Luffy not hurting Kaidou was not because of attack power or lack thereof, but because he did not have AdvCoA, his attacks did not do any damage to the scales, and also were not projected to his insides, but now his attacks are.
We have many characters mention throughout the series that power combinations can be quite curious, one of the most extreme examples being Mr3 vs Magellan. In Kaido´s case, it´s AdvCoA.
That´s for Luffy and Zoro who definitely have AdvCoA.
Law? Goes back to example of Mr3 vs Magellan. BM´s and Kaido´s biggest assets so far have been their durability, now you have a character who can completely ignore durability, also can attack insides with his ability and thus bypass outer layers.
Kid and Killer remain to be seen.
Also, just to point out, fighting Big Mom is just an attack power issue. She has incredible durability but not such a prerequisite of needing to bypass any scales or anything, so if Killer and Kid can provide that attack power, it´s also not lacking credibility. Luffy clashed with her with Kong Gun.
 
#22
Power creep doesn’t just refer to the strength of the verse as a whole subtly increasing over time. In that regard, I think you’re right. One Piece is nothing like Dragon Ball or Naruto.

Power creep can also refer to an individual character becoming more powerful in a way that seems contrived and/or due to plot. In this sense, I think One Piece almost definitely shows signs of power creep. Luffy damaging Kaido with G3 (and potentially no ryou) when just two weeks earlier king organ did nothing is a bit much.
Of course he used ryou. Stop saying dumb shit.
 
#23
Power creep doesn’t just refer to the strength of the verse as a whole subtly increasing over time. In that regard, I think you’re right. One Piece is nothing like Dragon Ball or Naruto.

Power creep can also refer to an individual character becoming more powerful in a way that seems contrived and/or due to plot. In this sense, I think One Piece almost definitely shows signs of power creep. Luffy damaging Kaido with G3 (and potentially no ryou) when just two weeks earlier king organ did nothing is a bit much.
He used adv CoA, two weeks ago if he had adv CoA, he would have also damaged Kaido pretty badly.
He said he needed a mean to bypass Kaido's scales. He has it now, it's just that simple.

If anything Kaido one shoting Luffy was the mistake since now people expect a 1vs100 for the Kaido fight or else they will be disappointed by him. But this isn't happening.
 
#24
I know, it´s a two aspect concept

1) escalating the power limit further and further
2) elevating relevant characters to that power limit without credible explanations.

It isn´t.

1) The attack has Ryou, it´s a completely new technique, just logically, there is no reason to highlight a new technique after two week training if the first thing he does has no relation to the training at all, makes no sense

2) That´s how Kaido´s power works. He is someone who can ignore physical blows unless they can bypass his scales. This is not an Attack power issue, none of the scabbards have attack power compared to Kong Organ, yet they hurt Kaidou and Luffy didn´t, why? Because they can bypass the scales with AdvCoA.
Meaning if you are a physical fighter and not access to elemental damage, no matter what kind of attack power you have, it´s meaningless. But if you have AdvCoA, now attack power matters, so basically AdvCoA is a prerequisite to fight Kaidou.
Luffy not hurting Kaidou was not because of attack power or lack thereof, but because he did not have AdvCoA, his attacks did not do any damage to the scales, and also were not projected to his insides, but now his attacks are.
We have many characters mention throughout the series that power combinations can be quite curious, one of the most extreme examples being Mr3 vs Magellan. In Kaido´s case, it´s AdvCoA.
That´s for Luffy and Zoro who definitely have AdvCoA.
Law? Goes back to example of Mr3 vs Magellan. BM´s and Kaido´s biggest assets so far have been their durability, now you have a character who can completely ignore durability, also can attack insides with his ability and thus bypass outer layers.
Kid and Killer remain to be seen.
Also, just to point out, fighting Big Mom is just an attack power issue. She has incredible durability but not such a prerequisite of needing to bypass any scales or anything, so if Killer and Kid can provide that attack power, it´s also not lacking credibility. Luffy clashed with her with Kong Gun.
I would like to point out that Red Hawk does internal combustion damage without ryou.

It’s not too much of a stretch to say the Gear 3 version Red Roc works the same way. Meaning that Luffy may not have even used ryou.
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Of course he used ryou. Stop saying dumb shit.
See above.
 
#25
Power creep doesn’t just refer to the strength of the verse as a whole subtly increasing over time. In that regard, I think you’re right. One Piece is nothing like Dragon Ball or Naruto.

Power creep can also refer to an individual character becoming more powerful in a way that seems contrived and/or due to plot. In this sense, I think One Piece almost definitely shows signs of power creep. Luffy damaging Kaido with G3 (and potentially no ryou) when just two weeks earlier king organ did nothing is a bit much.
Let's wait for chapter 1001. Guys were overreacting when luffy damaged dragon form kaido or when the scabbards hurt human kaido. Just jumping to conclusions.
And yes there might be power creep but luffy trained in extreme conditions for 2 weeks with a teacher to get AcoA
Post automatically merged:

Power creep doesn’t just refer to the strength of the verse as a whole subtly increasing over time. In that regard, I think you’re right. One Piece is nothing like Dragon Ball or Naruto.

Power creep can also refer to an individual character becoming more powerful in a way that seems contrived and/or due to plot. In this sense, I think One Piece almost definitely shows signs of power creep. Luffy damaging Kaido with G3 (and potentially no ryou) when just two weeks earlier king organ did nothing is a bit much.
Gear 3 with AcoA damaging kaido makes sense. He just injected haki that can obliterate steel directly into kaido's brain. There might be a drawback to using that power so let's wait.
 
#27
The moment Haki was introduced
It was bound to happen, the moment the series relies on "spiritual power" it will keep escalating with no limits

Because Without Haki, it was mainly dependinh on DF ability and how to counter them and get more creative with using counters, like Sands with water, rubber and electricity...etc

But this also falls because Oda introduced Enemies that have really hax fruits that there is no logical way to explain how rubber can bear Logia magma by normal creativity

So he needed to resort to what other series depends on (Naruto = Chakra / HxH = Nen / Bleach = Spiritual Preassure / Street Fighter = Ki ...etc)
They all have same principal which is spiritual power within
And each series manifested it in different way

But generally, spiritual powers always lead to OVERPOWERED planetry level destructive level if not galaxies lol

It was bound to happen! The moment Oda started to think of Haki
 

Punpun

Goodnight
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#28
The moment Haki was introduced
It was bound to happen, the moment the series relies on "spiritual power" it will keep escalating with no limits

Because Without Haki, it was mainly dependinh on DF ability and how to counter them and get more creative with using counters, like Sands with water, rubber and electricity...etc

But this also falls because Oda introduced Enemies that have really hax fruits that there is no logical way to explain how rubber can bear Logia magma by normal creativity

So he needed to resort to what other series depends on (Naruto = Chakra / HxH = Nen / Bleach = Spiritual Preassure / Street Fighter = Ki ...etc)
They all have same principal which is spiritual power within
And each series manifested it in different way

But generally, spiritual powers always lead to OVERPOWERED planetry level destructive level if not galaxies lol

It was bound to happen! The moment Oda started to think of Haki
What other options did have, He had to introduce those hax fruits to keep the story exciting. And a way for mc to counter those things. Its shonen at the end of the day
 
#29
What other options did have, He had to introduce those hax fruits to keep the story exciting. And a way for mc to counter those things. Its shonen at the end of the day
Yeah, I get that
And I'm not complaining about having overpowered shit, I'm explaining why it happened

Although Oda could have followed a different route I believe... for example, he could have stated that "eating one Devil Fruit is just a false rumor WG spread" to scare pirates from getting stronger and eating more than 1 fruit... thus Blackbeard came who knew the ins and outs

But also, he could have imposed another rule to prevent overpowered shit!
For example, he could have made the rule "every character can only eat 3 DF, but those 3 should belong to 3 different types)
1- Logia
2- Paramecia
3- Zoan

Thus it will maintain creativity when combining those powers, and not becoming overpowered with spiritual shit
And it will keep fans on their toes for which fruit Luffy could eat to combine it with rubber, which animal suits him most, would it be normal, ancient, mythical, which ability when combined with rubber and that animal abilities can make him surpass a magma guy for example

Point, he had different routes, but I respect his choice...
 

Punpun

Goodnight
.
#30
Yeah, I get that
And I'm not complaining about having overpowered shit, I'm explaining why it happened

Although Oda could have followed a different route I believe... for example, he could have stated that "eating one Devil Fruit is just a false rumor WG spread" to scare pirates from getting stronger and eating more than 1 fruit... thus Blackbeard came who knew the ins and outs

But also, he could have imposed another rule to prevent overpowered shit!
For example, he could have made the rule "every character can only eat 3 DF, but those 3 should belong to 3 different types)
1- Logia
2- Paramecia
3- Zoan

Thus it will maintain creativity when combining those powers, and not becoming overpowered with spiritual shit
And it will keep fans on their toes for which fruit Luffy could eat to combine it with rubber, which animal suits him most, would it be normal, ancient, mythical, which ability when combined with rubber and that animal abilities can make him surpass a magma guy for example

Point, he had different routes, but I respect his choice...
I don't think that's possible for Oda, especially at this stage it would've required consistent creative writing. And creative writing is much harder to pull off.
Now he take inspiration from other stories and mold that stuff into his own. Complete original ideas, he just can't pull off on a consistent basis.
 

Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 ⚛️
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#31
After chapter 1000, I’m entirely convinced that One Piece is going down the same route as Dragon Ball and Naruto where the power creep for the main characters gets way too out of hand.

Am I overreacting or are my concerns legitimate?
Yes, it is eventually how it stands.

Oda apparently pulled off a new Enies Lobby scenario, granting power ups that were formerly unexpected. For example Luffy blitzing Kaido which was the last straw when we consider that the Udon training should not have served much that wise.
 
#33
The moment Haki was introduced
It was bound to happen, the moment the series relies on "spiritual power" it will keep escalating with no limits

Because Without Haki, it was mainly dependinh on DF ability and how to counter them and get more creative with using counters, like Sands with water, rubber and electricity...etc

But this also falls because Oda introduced Enemies that have really hax fruits that there is no logical way to explain how rubber can bear Logia magma by normal creativity

So he needed to resort to what other series depends on (Naruto = Chakra / HxH = Nen / Bleach = Spiritual Preassure / Street Fighter = Ki ...etc)
They all have same principal which is spiritual power within
And each series manifested it in different way

But generally, spiritual powers always lead to OVERPOWERED planetry level destructive level if not galaxies lol

It was bound to happen! The moment Oda started to think of Haki
I don't think any planatery things will happen in one piece. Too generic and Oda doesn't have high DC feats happen in the manga. This isn't naruto where they fire bombs endlessly like civilians don't exist.
 
#34
Yes, it is eventually how it stands.

Oda apparently pulled off a new Enies Lobby scenario, granting power ups that were formerly unexpected. For example Luffy blitzing Kaido which was the last straw when we consider that the Udon training should not have served much that wise.
Luffy was always more agile than Kaido. That Thunder Bagua moment just made most of us forget that.

Only reason Luffy got hit in that fight in the first place was because he was too emotional for his CoO to work.

As for the OP:

There's no powercreep, Oda showed us the caliber of the top tiers in MF and continued showing us via Punk Hazard and WB vs Roger. We know how shit gonna end power wise lol
 
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#36
After Wano, Luffy is going to compete with all top tiers as well.

Injuring Kaido with a new G3 + Ryuo move is the least I can expect from Luffy after he had a very difficult training for 2 weeks. It's seriously the only arc in which Luffy trained a few weeks beforehand after he was defeated by the antagonist.

So no, it's not power creep and plot inconsistency.
 
#37
This is made up and comes off as zilch.
We can't state something like this without solid evidence.

From his perspective, luffy saw his friends get blown up by Kaido and thought O Tama was dead. He was engulfed in rage. CoO doesnt work well when you arent calm.

Oda already expanded on the rules of CoO. He set up a scenario where Luffy wouldnt be able to use FS. Its pretty much common sense and thats all the evidence you need lol.

Now Luffy is calm, he saw Kaido shit coming then properly used Soru lmao.

Not to mention that Kaido was even drunk when got hit/fought Luffy.
Him not being drunk wouldnt have really made much of a difference.

Kaido fights by tanking attacks. And Luffy's CoO still wouldnt have been working due to his rage.
 
#38
I don't think one piece is in that stage yet, but Oda never really care about power scaling since the beginning anyway so isn't any issue if it did
Oda uses power scaling when the plot requires it
 
#39
Another aspect is, why do people think Luffy and Zoro have trained with the best in the world in the first place?
You can argue that the other Strawhats needed powerups for the New World and they were not ready, compared to L+Z but that was not the issue.
The issue was, Luffy´s aim from the get-go was to target the elite of the world, and he is no schemer or someone who patiently waits for any chance. So the aim of the training was, to put Luffy and Zoro in a position in which through those battles they would eventually enter, they could learn the necessary abilities to compete on this level.
Admittedly, Luffy learning FS in the middle of a fight is a stretch, but it´s still something built up based on his training for 2 years.
You can argue Zoro mastering Enma in 2 weeks is a stretch when none since Oden was able to do so, but Zoro´s training with Mihawk, and we literally saw him mentioning black blades, put him in a position to be able to do it.

This is not Dragonball, which lacked any transparency anyway and was only punches and energy blasts for the most part, and Naruto, which pulled one ability after the next out of thin air.

Having said that, Impel Down and Marineford is guilty of power creeping, Impel Down only one instant (Luffy punching Blackbeard) and Marineford a lot (Admirals, Vice Admirals, Sengoku, all have capacity to oneshot Luffy, especially in the state he was), so One Piece is not completely free from it (also why for me Marineford is one of the worst arcs, despite Whitebeard, Akainu, Ace death and so forth), but the events now? No, perfectly consistent and arguably even a good solution, meaning Kaido having an ability that protects him against physical damage without AdvCoA.
 
#40
A lot of One Piece fans claim that One Piece is one of if not the greatest manga. Having a basic issue like power creep would make these claims look kinda laughable.
Anyone really claiming that OP is the greatest manga (at least in terms of storywriting) has probably only read 3 or 4 manga series in their life.

OP is a great shonen manga of course, but there are a lot of manga series, that have superior writing. Some might not be as enjoyable/funny/action-based, but that doesn't mean that they're not better written in terms of pacing, character development, inner-manga logic, arc structures etc.

Just take the OP formula and you'll see that it's as basic/repetitive as it gets:

1) SHs reach a new island
2) SHs meet local hero (most of the times a young female)
3) SHs learn about the problems of the people on the island.
4) First confrontation with the villains.
5) SHs get defeated in some kind of way.
6) Flashback of the local hero/story of the island.
7) Second matchup with the villains.
8) SHs win.
9) Banquet and SHs sail to the next island.

90% of the OP arcs are structured more or less like that. That's fine for a shonen of course, but it's so far away from being the "best written manga", it's not really worth discussing, really.
 
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