[FNZ] Role Madness [Season 2] Round 1 - The Dancing Valentine

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Lindltaylor

There's no "Tina!"
What do you think I can possibly achieve by posting this. Draw out cases, scenarios and stuff I wanna see exactly what world you have in your mind which make this info from a previous game something convinient to me, use any alignment you like.
Alrighty.
So I don't remember seeing anyone post about an abundant number of third parties this game. You were the only one. I see it as mechanic talk and often 90% of mechanic talk is said by scum.
However, that was the beginning of day 1, so I didn't really pursue it too much. Just pointed it out.

Do you think my way of talking is convincing enough? Are you convinced? Do you think I'm trying to lead a way or something? I'm interested. Talk it out whenever you can, I'm trying to level up my game actually, would be a great help.
I like your way of talking. Don't know if you can be convincing enough because that depends on you. For you to lead the way? I don't think being a town leader is more important than being a contributive member of town.
 

Ratchet

The End and the Beginning
yo why the fk every game i play as town we have this over the top restriction to claims, but when im scum every town and their mom can claim

i mean idek who the fk r these ningens in the flavor or what anime this even is

but it makes no sense why cant we claim our actions at least???
Are you repeating how much you are Town in an attempt to convince us as such? This is a pretty common scum tactic, where one attempts to insert something that isn't proven to be factual, as factual, in order to get people to look past them.
What's up people

Rapid remainder:

Scum would most likely try to confuse the game by fluffing like no tomorrow. So make sure to be aware of that. Of course expert scum can apply WIFOM to what I just highlighted.

No, expert Scum would not employ WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me, circular reasoning). Expert Scum would appear to be contributive, while actually only contributing fluff/not scum hunting. It's true that scum tend not to want to act like scum, but fluffing or not is mostly playstyle-related this early on.
By that logic (and this isn’t a Star Trek pun), someone who posts a lot of random GIFs and useless observations might reasonably be viewed as scummy?? Hmm...
Yes, because this would exhibit behaviour that suggests the player in question is not scum hunting. Scum tend not to want to scum hunt, because either their contributions will in time be proven to be false/misleading, which would lead the town to them, or they are correct, and will lead the town to one of their scum buddies. So a player who is flagrantly not trying to hunt scum, and instead buffers the thread with useless observations and remarks, would indeed be exhibiting scum behaviour. In an ideal world, this would be cut and dry, but unfortunately it often contains false positives, and people like to consider themselves authorities on what contributes as "scum-hunting" - a vague and ill-defined term at best. Which means oftentimes the player caught via this is a townie playing like an extra scum member, or a townie who was scum hunting, but wasn't employing the same methods that the vocal townies like to use, so were told they wasn't scum hunting. It's still worth bearing in mind, of course, scummy behaviour should always be called out, but I'd be wary about using it as the sole determinator for a lynch.
ok bk to business
on a scale of 1 to flower how scum r u ali :beckmoji:
Is this going to be the extent of your contributions?
What do you guys have of all that fire-related talk? Did it catch your eye as well or is it me? That was one contrived exchange in my opinion.

It was mostly Poison, krogothwolf and Flower going at it IIRC. Poison looked the most bent.

I'll gonna re-read more accurately and look at the patterns. I hope I'm not over thinking and it was just town messing around. Oddly enough the exchanges were looking quite synergic however if you obviously get what I mean.
Why are you asking us to tell you what your conclusions should be? This reads like you trying to get confirmation that this is viewed as scummy behaviour that you can push safely, which would also imply you're unable to determine that for yourself. Which, in turn, indicates scum logic.
id say one of fuji and flower is scum

who u wanna roll a dice on
What evidence is there in thread to support this conclusion of yours?
Oh My God You Suck. (for voting for me/susing me)


It is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
The key word here being primarily[/], as we will later see Finalbeta misuse this term.
I concur about Rhea slipping circa the reading the thread subject matter and partially about the OMGUS one. However I believe that Light is prompting the first reaction thing about the lynch too hard, her reaction wasn't so appalling that wise. She addressed the quote literally. Also going by a very general knowledge of Mafia games, it is quite unlikely that Rhea possesses a lynch immunity from an odds standpoint. The original reason why Light asked the question was meant as a joke mixtured with testing, then things escalated dysfunctionally.
Why on Earth would we apply generic odds on the likelihood of a role existing, in a role madness game?
Day is long mate, we can take our time, half of the players arent even active rn.

I do think Rhea's acting odd but her jumping from one Lynch to another isnt a good scum sign, she has shown herself to be calculating and smart most of last game. Doubt she would start vote jumping people who sus her this early.
I hate that a Day Phase of this length is considered "long". Her jumping from one lynch to another is a generic scum tell, because it shows behaviour of someone who is pushing votes to see what gains traction, rather than pushing votes based on what they've determined is scummy behaviour. Scum tend to want to get votes on townies.
Last game she wasn't vote jumping, to me when i see someone vote up several people i tend to lean town on them. Because no sane scum would attract attention towards them from doing that.

As for what happened, well she was caught. Flower asked her what she did and she lied, do recall that she's new so while she played well i guess she couldn't handle the pressure of being caught.
This is not a justifiable reason to excuse scummy behaviour. While you are correct in that it's a very low-level scum tell, it is a scum tell for a reason. I feel like you are being unduly defensive of Rhea here.
I'm going to bed in a while. It shall be a pleasure to attempt to bust some scums once again by the very time I wake up.

Your contributions thus far have consisted of you asking for more input on a small fluff dialogue between three people, out of which even you seem unsure who looks suspicious enough to push from, and beg for a dance partner. If you've been "busting scums", I've yet to see any evidence of it here.
x


ur kinda still cautious tbh
feel more in control and dont want to give unnecessary info

if fuji flips scum i'll feel lot better about u
Why is this your conclusion?
But did you vote Rhea first last game? Or was it joke vote from her.
Can we please stop getting caught up in last game? This game is the current one, I feel like too mucn discussion has occurred based on the previous game. Meta is a fickle thing.
Mamma mia, here we go again, my my, arguing about poinless things and making the thread uneccesarily long for no good reason at all. We gonna end up with 500 pages at this pace.
I feel the pain of the people who need to catch up with- well, nothing.
I agree, but this is really the average Mafia experience. And it is Day 1, after all.
its called rule of archenemies

flower voted me as well so i guess shes town too

in all our games we played together, we have always been different alignment. except 1 game
Correlation does not imply causation. This is utter nonsense.
I didn't say useless.


I meant that the post didn't have any substantial content to have read on him.


I don't like to make read on someone based on one post. To me context matters the most.
But if you're dealing with a savvy scum member, chances are it's the little details that will be important. Which is to say, while context is important, dismissing posts because they're isolated is not the way to go either.
So far though, among all these posts I've liked that Light and Lanji best to be honest. This is by not alignment indicative, but is definitely a positive note from me to them
What does "liking" in this context then, if not to indicate alignment? I can understand it not being a strong read, sure, but to say it's not indicative of alignment at all really bewilders me.
Good morning people

@Poison your reaction towards my inferences looks OMGUS-like to me. They don't look realistically linear. I didn't particularly like when you say something like: "why don't you start some fire talking too" of course meant as a joke yet feels like frustration to me, on top of your general reacting. You are even wrong about underwhelming not to mention, in that I was really trying to contribute before going off to bed. And too many interactions with people make one reek as scum, it's best to avoid them. Nevertheless, I interacted with a few players. So you are partially wrong.

As for Light, I find his view on Rhea still extensively illogical if we talked about its complexity. He is keeping to push on that matter regarding the reaction which is funnily the least thing out of the behavioural megastructure he should prompt. My bad sensation about this forced push my mind had come up with intensified.

Here we have Beta misusing OMGUS. Questioning the line of suspicion raised against you based on the logical merits it has is not the same as suspecting someone simply because they vote for you.
How I'm gonna go dressed for the Ball :catblush:

*Urge to be Kanye-sama intensifies*
Oh My God You Suck. A nuanced term that often gets applied without nuance. The idea is that, when someone votes for you, you respond by claiming they are the scummy ones, not you, because they voted for you. It's nuanced because if you are town, you are approaching the game from a townie mindset. So when someone does not share that mindset, or even really close to it, and is reading the game very differently from you, it's a natural reaction to suspect that the reason they are doing so is because they don't share your alignment. Thus, if you are town, their chances of being scum increase. However, to avoid using OMGUS, you need to ensure that you establish that their reasoning for voting for you is flawed, and better yet, flawed in a way that is not simply mistaken, but manipulative and scummy. If you skip this stage, or ignore it entirely, then you probably end up using OMGUS. If you're unable to establish why their reasoning is flawed, even as a means to defend yourself, then you probably shouldn't be openly voting for/suspecting them in thread.
Who did that in this game so far?
Rhea, towards Light, is pretty much OMGUS. I say pretty much, because Light's suspicion on Rhea is based heavily on pedantic reasoning that can be reasonably explained away via common sense, but Rhea has not articulated any of this in the thread. Or at least, hadn't at the time of voting for Light.
Rhea is a new player and reading her exchange with Light it looks like she slipped. She said she didn‘t read the game and yet was apparently aware of the WUs. That‘s a contradiction. And her reactions to that seem like last game where she was scum.

Sussopp is all over the place again throwing suspicions left and right. Looks like his scum self.

Beta‘s Town play is annoying and it feels like that now.
Your soft defence of Beta has been duly noted.
I am conflicted tbh and that's why I am not pushing actively for Beta yet. We all know that Beta can be an easy mislynch but we also tend to overlook him and what he does, like in the FMA game where he was scum and we lynched him last and only because by then the rest of us were all confirmed townies.
It's not really that difficult. As town, you want to highlight and ultimately remove players that are playing like scum. Beta is one of those. If you feel like his play isn't scummy enough to warrent a lynch over others who either are scummier of offer more of an upside information wise, then you keep him on the back burner until he either makes his alignment clearer through his posts, or a Vigilante decides to remove him (which is what the Vigilante should be shooting for at this stage of the game, if they must shoot at all). If you feel like there are no better lynches, then he's as good as any other policy lynch (others being hard inactives or players who have only posted to fluff). I can get behind a Beta lynch today, I can also back a Rhea lynch, a God D. Usopp lynch, and part of me is feeling a Flower lynch, but less so than the others.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
So I don't remember seeing anyone post about an abundant number of third parties this game. You were the only one. I see it as mechanic talk and often 90% of mechanic talk is said by scum.
I agree with this. Iirc only Susopp mentioned 3rd parties and he said that no 3rd parties would be involved according to him.



Did that Queen woman appear again? Irc she kinda fluffed and that was it.
Nope. Let's summon her. @QueenEmilia
 

Lindltaylor

There's no "Tina!"
This ^.

Lock Poison Town, throw the key into the ocean nobody cares.
Last time you did this, I remember was in the PH game and you were scum locking Nat as town lol.
Deja vu or are you scum again?

I mean how likely do you bus?
I often refrain from bussing. I would rather protect a teammate or bus myself tbh. Bad tactic I know, but that's how I play as scum.

I wouldn't say suddenly, his very first post kinda suggested a similar feeling, if you look back.
Do you think your survival is more important to town than getting a scum to lynch?
Beta always only cares about himself. At least that's what I observed. It was made evident when he shot Fuji for some dumb reason in the weeb game.
 
Because I didn’t understand what you were talking about. Can you explain to me what that fire stuff is(like I said I roughly understand that it’s something some people talked about earlier) and what makes it suspicious.
It striked as you were annoyed or even riled up by me mentioning the matter when you quoted me yesterday, so I smell the scent of a lie / inconsistence here... why reacting like that instead of asking what I was talking about.

Anyway it was a contrived exchange perpetuated by a few players in which they were talking about fire, it's weird that you did not notice it yet if you read the thread... sounds that at the end it was found out to possibly be a mere analogy game regarding an online game or something.
 

Light D Lamperouge

𝖂𝖍𝖆𝖙 𝕮𝖔𝖚𝖑𝖉 𝕳𝖆𝖛𝖊 𝕭𝖊𝖊𝖓
Are you repeating how much you are Town in an attempt to convince us as such? This is a pretty common scum tactic, where one attempts to insert something that isn't proven to be factual, as factual, in order to get people to look past them.
No, expert Scum would not employ WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me, circular reasoning). Expert Scum would appear to be contributive, while actually only contributing fluff/not scum hunting. It's true that scum tend not to want to act like scum, but fluffing or not is mostly playstyle-related this early on.
Yes, because this would exhibit behaviour that suggests the player in question is not scum hunting. Scum tend not to want to scum hunt, because either their contributions will in time be proven to be false/misleading, which would lead the town to them, or they are correct, and will lead the town to one of their scum buddies. So a player who is flagrantly not trying to hunt scum, and instead buffers the thread with useless observations and remarks, would indeed be exhibiting scum behaviour. In an ideal world, this would be cut and dry, but unfortunately it often contains false positives, and people like to consider themselves authorities on what contributes as "scum-hunting" - a vague and ill-defined term at best. Which means oftentimes the player caught via this is a townie playing like an extra scum member, or a townie who was scum hunting, but wasn't employing the same methods that the vocal townies like to use, so were told they wasn't scum hunting. It's still worth bearing in mind, of course, scummy behaviour should always be called out, but I'd be wary about using it as the sole determinator for a lynch.
Is this going to be the extent of your contributions?
Why are you asking us to tell you what your conclusions should be? This reads like you trying to get confirmation that this is viewed as scummy behaviour that you can push safely, which would also imply you're unable to determine that for yourself. Which, in turn, indicates scum logic.
What evidence is there in thread to support this conclusion of yours?
The key word here being primarily[/], as we will later see Finalbeta misuse this term.
Why on Earth would we apply generic odds on the likelihood of a role existing, in a role madness game?
I hate that a Day Phase of this length is considered "long". Her jumping from one lynch to another is a generic scum tell, because it shows behaviour of someone who is pushing votes to see what gains traction, rather than pushing votes based on what they've determined is scummy behaviour. Scum tend to want to get votes on townies.
This is not a justifiable reason to excuse scummy behaviour. While you are correct in that it's a very low-level scum tell, it is a scum tell for a reason. I feel like you are being unduly defensive of Rhea here.
Your contributions thus far have consisted of you asking for more input on a small fluff dialogue between three people, out of which even you seem unsure who looks suspicious enough to push from, and beg for a dance partner. If you've been "busting scums", I've yet to see any evidence of it here.
Why is this your conclusion?
Can we please stop getting caught up in last game? This game is the current one, I feel like too mucn discussion has occurred based on the previous game. Meta is a fickle thing.
I agree, but this is really the average Mafia experience. And it is Day 1, after all.
Correlation does not imply causation. This is utter nonsense.
But if you're dealing with a savvy scum member, chances are it's the little details that will be important. Which is to say, while context is important, dismissing posts because they're isolated is not the way to go either.
What does "liking" in this context then, if not to indicate alignment? I can understand it not being a strong read, sure, but to say it's not indicative of alignment at all really bewilders me.
Here we have Beta misusing OMGUS. Questioning the line of suspicion raised against you based on the logical merits it has is not the same as suspecting someone simply because they vote for you.
*Urge to be Kanye-sama intensifies*
Oh My God You Suck. A nuanced term that often gets applied without nuance. The idea is that, when someone votes for you, you respond by claiming they are the scummy ones, not you, because they voted for you. It's nuanced because if you are town, you are approaching the game from a townie mindset. So when someone does not share that mindset, or even really close to it, and is reading the game very differently from you, it's a natural reaction to suspect that the reason they are doing so is because they don't share your alignment. Thus, if you are town, their chances of being scum increase. However, to avoid using OMGUS, you need to ensure that you establish that their reasoning for voting for you is flawed, and better yet, flawed in a way that is not simply mistaken, but manipulative and scummy. If you skip this stage, or ignore it entirely, then you probably end up using OMGUS. If you're unable to establish why their reasoning is flawed, even as a means to defend yourself, then you probably shouldn't be openly voting for/suspecting them in thread.
Rhea, towards Light, is pretty much OMGUS. I say pretty much, because Light's suspicion on Rhea is based heavily on pedantic reasoning that can be reasonably explained away via common sense, but Rhea has not articulated any of this in the thread. Or at least, hadn't at the time of voting for Light.
Your soft defence of Beta has been duly noted.
It's not really that difficult. As town, you want to highlight and ultimately remove players that are playing like scum. Beta is one of those. If you feel like his play isn't scummy enough to warrent a lynch over others who either are scummier of offer more of an upside information wise, then you keep him on the back burner until he either makes his alignment clearer through his posts, or a Vigilante decides to remove him (which is what the Vigilante should be shooting for at this stage of the game, if they must shoot at all). If you feel like there are no better lynches, then he's as good as any other policy lynch (others being hard inactives or players who have only posted to fluff). I can get behind a Beta lynch today, I can also back a Rhea lynch, a God D. Usopp lynch, and part of me is feeling a Flower lynch, but less so than the others.
I'll read this and respond to whatever you quoted me after I have lunch lmao.
 
Last time you did this, I remember was in the PH game and you were scum locking Nat as town lol.
Deja vu or are you scum again?


I often refrain from bussing. I would rather protect a teammate or bus myself tbh. Bad tactic I know, but that's how I play as scum.



Beta always only cares about himself. At least that's what I observed. It was made evident when he shot Fuji for some dumb reason in the weeb game.
I‘m Town this game.

And you know what that means...

Sussopp is scum :beckmoji:.
 

Jew D. Boy

I Can Go Lower
Yes, because this would exhibit behaviour that suggests the player in question is not scum hunting. Scum tend not to want to scum hunt, because either their contributions will in time be proven to be false/misleading, which would lead the town to them, or they are correct, and will lead the town to one of their scum buddies. So a player who is flagrantly not trying to hunt scum, and instead buffers the thread with useless observations and remarks, would indeed be exhibiting scum behaviour. In an ideal world, this would be cut and dry, but unfortunately it often contains false positives, and people like to consider themselves authorities on what contributes as "scum-hunting" - a vague and ill-defined term at best. Which means oftentimes the player caught via this is a townie playing like an extra scum member, or a townie who was scum hunting, but wasn't employing the same methods that the vocal townies like to use, so were told they wasn't scum hunting. It's still worth bearing in mind, of course, scummy behaviour should always be called out, but I'd be wary about using it as the sole determinator for a lynch.
I can say with full confidence that you missed the point of my post if that was your takeaway...
 
Are you repeating how much you are Town in an attempt to convince us as such? This is a pretty common scum tactic, where one attempts to insert something that isn't proven to be factual, as factual, in order to get people to look past them.
No, expert Scum would not employ WIFOM (Wine In Front Of Me, circular reasoning). Expert Scum would appear to be contributive, while actually only contributing fluff/not scum hunting. It's true that scum tend not to want to act like scum, but fluffing or not is mostly playstyle-related this early on.
Yes, because this would exhibit behaviour that suggests the player in question is not scum hunting. Scum tend not to want to scum hunt, because either their contributions will in time be proven to be false/misleading, which would lead the town to them, or they are correct, and will lead the town to one of their scum buddies. So a player who is flagrantly not trying to hunt scum, and instead buffers the thread with useless observations and remarks, would indeed be exhibiting scum behaviour. In an ideal world, this would be cut and dry, but unfortunately it often contains false positives, and people like to consider themselves authorities on what contributes as "scum-hunting" - a vague and ill-defined term at best. Which means oftentimes the player caught via this is a townie playing like an extra scum member, or a townie who was scum hunting, but wasn't employing the same methods that the vocal townies like to use, so were told they wasn't scum hunting. It's still worth bearing in mind, of course, scummy behaviour should always be called out, but I'd be wary about using it as the sole determinator for a lynch.
Is this going to be the extent of your contributions?
Why are you asking us to tell you what your conclusions should be? This reads like you trying to get confirmation that this is viewed as scummy behaviour that you can push safely, which would also imply you're unable to determine that for yourself. Which, in turn, indicates scum logic.
What evidence is there in thread to support this conclusion of yours?
The key word here being primarily[/], as we will later see Finalbeta misuse this term.
Why on Earth would we apply generic odds on the likelihood of a role existing, in a role madness game?
I hate that a Day Phase of this length is considered "long". Her jumping from one lynch to another is a generic scum tell, because it shows behaviour of someone who is pushing votes to see what gains traction, rather than pushing votes based on what they've determined is scummy behaviour. Scum tend to want to get votes on townies.
This is not a justifiable reason to excuse scummy behaviour. While you are correct in that it's a very low-level scum tell, it is a scum tell for a reason. I feel like you are being unduly defensive of Rhea here.
Your contributions thus far have consisted of you asking for more input on a small fluff dialogue between three people, out of which even you seem unsure who looks suspicious enough to push from, and beg for a dance partner. If you've been "busting scums", I've yet to see any evidence of it here.
Why is this your conclusion?
Can we please stop getting caught up in last game? This game is the current one, I feel like too mucn discussion has occurred based on the previous game. Meta is a fickle thing.
I agree, but this is really the average Mafia experience. And it is Day 1, after all.
Correlation does not imply causation. This is utter nonsense.
But if you're dealing with a savvy scum member, chances are it's the little details that will be important. Which is to say, while context is important, dismissing posts because they're isolated is not the way to go either.
What does "liking" in this context then, if not to indicate alignment? I can understand it not being a strong read, sure, but to say it's not indicative of alignment at all really bewilders me.
Here we have Beta misusing OMGUS. Questioning the line of suspicion raised against you based on the logical merits it has is not the same as suspecting someone simply because they vote for you.
*Urge to be Kanye-sama intensifies*
Oh My God You Suck. A nuanced term that often gets applied without nuance. The idea is that, when someone votes for you, you respond by claiming they are the scummy ones, not you, because they voted for you. It's nuanced because if you are town, you are approaching the game from a townie mindset. So when someone does not share that mindset, or even really close to it, and is reading the game very differently from you, it's a natural reaction to suspect that the reason they are doing so is because they don't share your alignment. Thus, if you are town, their chances of being scum increase. However, to avoid using OMGUS, you need to ensure that you establish that their reasoning for voting for you is flawed, and better yet, flawed in a way that is not simply mistaken, but manipulative and scummy. If you skip this stage, or ignore it entirely, then you probably end up using OMGUS. If you're unable to establish why their reasoning is flawed, even as a means to defend yourself, then you probably shouldn't be openly voting for/suspecting them in thread.
Rhea, towards Light, is pretty much OMGUS. I say pretty much, because Light's suspicion on Rhea is based heavily on pedantic reasoning that can be reasonably explained away via common sense, but Rhea has not articulated any of this in the thread. Or at least, hadn't at the time of voting for Light.
Your soft defence of Beta has been duly noted.
It's not really that difficult. As town, you want to highlight and ultimately remove players that are playing like scum. Beta is one of those. If you feel like his play isn't scummy enough to warrent a lynch over others who either are scummier of offer more of an upside information wise, then you keep him on the back burner until he either makes his alignment clearer through his posts, or a Vigilante decides to remove him (which is what the Vigilante should be shooting for at this stage of the game, if they must shoot at all). If you feel like there are no better lynches, then he's as good as any other policy lynch (others being hard inactives or players who have only posted to fluff). I can get behind a Beta lynch today, I can also back a Rhea lynch, a God D. Usopp lynch, and part of me is feeling a Flower lynch, but less so than the others.
If you’re pushing beta Lynch I’m fine with it, he’s been awfully reserved and testing the waters with his susses. Usually he would be in full on witch hunting mode.

I disagree with the Flower Lynch atm, I didn’t have time to interact with her or read her post to form an opinion.

Also, I’d like to point out something. Rhea is not dumb scum, jumping from one vote to another is as you pointed out, low level scum behaviour. Which she isn’t.

I am very much open to keeping her as sus but the thing is the case on her doesn’t hold any water for now.
 
It striked as you were annoyed or even riled up by me mentioning the matter when you quoted me yesterday, so I smell the scent of a lie / inconsistence here... why reacting like that instead of asking what I was talking about.

Anyway it was a contrived exchange perpetuated by a few players in which they were talking about fire, it's weird that you did not notice it yet if you read the thread... sounds that at the end it was found out to possibly be a mere analogy game regarding an online game or something.
Aight.
 
Notice how Fujishiro is frustrated after I have exposed his inconsistency and is asking people to start a lynch around me within such an unpleasant timing.

I think that scum has no benefit to keep me in the game assuming I'm indeed going after them, knowing I could possibly bear actions messing with them. This is a basic rule.
 
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