Seika vs Renpa

[Elder Lee Hung]

let's be real here , you know it's just small fights when the current number 1 gg in yan didn't ever heard about him .

We don’t know that at all actually, Riboku was slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Xiongnu before any other states had heard of him. Literally no one knew who Riboku was even after he butchered 130,000 Xiongnu one sidedly. Riboku wouldn’t have nominated Shibashou for the 3GH rank if he was just bullying small bandit camps lol

3gg is alone is not taken seriously by me since they gave it to hoken.

The 3GH rank is just a small fraction of Shibashou’s hype is the thing. The ground cracks when he walks, his subordinate is being compared to Moubu, Shiryou showed no fear of Houken while simultaneously trembling from Shibashou’s presence.

Renpa doesn’t even have a quarter of that martial hype. I Renpa has been used by Hara to directly compare more martial generals than any other character in Kingdom.

 

[Bullet]

Been a while since i read the Renpa campaign so if there is something i'm misremembering let me know

Rinko lost a 1v1 to 300 man commander Shin, tell me he stands even a slight chance against Jiaga, Kansaro, or Gakushou lol.

Weren't you one of the people that was hyping up Rinko and saying oh it was a tag team, he was nerfed and he totally shits on the likes of Rokoumi who was dodging ten bow arrows while taking on a guy stronger than GKS or Kansaro in Rinbukun.
As far as strength goes, Zenou's victim was the former strongest until the monkey Ji Aga showed up and i'd say even he was below Bananji
Rinko could hold his own against the likes of GKS and he might even slay the featless Kansaro.

Rinko’s tactics which specialize in breaking through defensive formations are irrelevant because the Seika gang are not a defensive army.

Neither is Ouki
Doesn't mean you go balls to the wall offense or defense in battle unless you're a Moubu i guess
At different points people could find themselves or be forced to go into defense or Rinko would go GKS style on his own ass and beat his offense with his own offense
Not to mention he could have slain so of his 100 men or 300 men commanders the night before or maybe even fake Shin himself to truly leave GKS's army in shambles

Jiaga is compared to Moubu

By the same guy who believed his Batei tier girlfriend can saly him.

Genpou’s abilities on flat land are actually not too great, reminder that Genpou didn’t even want to face Shin or Ouhon head on and retreated from them, now imagine him facing the Seika generals.

Must have missed the part where they said the guy that could have been Zhao's SHK and taught Rinko and Renpa strategy with probably 2x the experience and service record of all of Seika's generals combined wouldn't have anything for a monkey or a guy who's best tactical feat so far has been "let's copy what Mouten is doing"
One retreat after he had almost annihilated the enemy with soldiers that weren't even his own doesn't prove anything.

Kyou En va Kansaro who knows
Might lean Kyou En but we'll see

Might need to get your source on all of these supposedly offensive power or Dueling capabilities of the fodder slayer to see where he showed Renpa has 0 hope against him
Must have been when he had to save his strongest warrior from getting mid diffed by 3 random dudes

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Weren't you one of the people that was hyping up Rinko and saying oh it was a tag team, he was nerfed and he totally shits on the likes of Rokoumi who was dodging ten bow arrows while taking on a guy stronger than GKS or Kansaro in Rinbukun.
As far as strength goes, Zenou's victim was the former strongest until the monkey Ji Aga showed up and i'd say even he was below Bananji
Rinko could hold his own against the likes of GKS and he might even slay the featless Kansaro.

Way to go out of your way to misread every single thing I’ve typed lmfao.

1. Let Sanyou Ouhon and Shin double team Kansaro or Gakushou and they’d still probably get one shot lol. Rinko is a great warrior but he wouldn’t be able to defeat Shibashou’s guys 1v1.

I don’t think you understand Shibashou’s generals if you are downplaying them this hard lmfao, legit this is probably what Rinko would look like to Kansaro:

Now I doubt Kansaro is a better general than Rinko but in a fight Kansaro would roll Rinko up into a neat little present and deliver his corpse to Renpa for Christmas. Kansaro and Jiaga low diffed a 200,000 man army with 40k men in like 30 minutes lol, Rinko needed days of battle and prep time to pierce Mougou’s army with equal numbers.

2. Trying to downplay Gakushou and Kansaro for being weaker than Jyoukaryuu is like trying to downplay Renpa because he is weaker than Moubu lmfao. Jyoukaryuu fought a stronger version of Shin than the one who fought Gyou’Un and slayed Houken equally. Martially Jyoukaryuu scales to Gyou’Un’s level or even above who was directly shown to be stronger than Bananji who was directly compared to Renpa. Oh but Renpa fans will cry and say that the 36 warriors directly compared to Renpa aren’t actually equal to him. Those 36 warriors who are all weaker than Jyoukaryuu by the way lol.

3. Rinko shits on Rokuomi as a general, not as a fighter. As fighters they’re probably comparable.

Neither is Ouki
Doesn't mean you go balls to the wall offense or defense in battle unless you're a Moubu i guess
At different points people could find themselves or be forced to go into defense or Rinko would go GKS style on his own ass and beat his offense with his own offense
Not to mention he could have slain so of his 100 men or 300 men commanders the night before or maybe even fake Shin himself to truly leave GKS's army in shambles

Must have missed the part where they said the guy that could have been Zhao's SHK and taught Rinko and Renpa strategy with probably 2x the experience and service record of all of Seika's generals combined wouldn't have anything for a monkey or a guy who's best tactical feat so far has been "let's copy what Mouten is doing"
One retreat after he had almost annihilated the enemy with soldiers that weren't even his own doesn't prove anything.

1. Ouki definitely was (partially) a defensive general dude lol. His defensive formations were compared to iron walls by Renpa. That was when Renpa hyped Rinko busting through Ouki’s defense. Again, an irrelevant feat here because Shibashou’s generals are not defensive like Ouki was capable of being. Gakushou fought a drill charge with a drill charge lol, Rinko’s ability to bust through defense (arguably his best trait as a general) is useless against guys who would never fight defensively to begin with.

Why would Seika even fight defensively? To protect Shibashou from Rinko lmfao? Nah, Seika would want Renpa to find himself face to face with SBS, and let’s see what happens when Bananji’s rival faces Zhao’s Kanmei.

Might need to get your source on all of these supposedly offensive power or Dueling capabilities of the fodder slayer to see where he showed Renpa has 0 hope against him
Must have been when he had to save his strongest warrior from getting mid diffed by 3 random dudes

Funny seeing as how I was the only one to accurately predict Man’U would pose a threat to Moubu where the rest of you thought Moubu would mid diff him lmfao. Yeah clearly it’s me who needs to justify my powerscaling lmfao.

How about this: when you accurately predict a single thing Hara will do in terms of powerscaling, you can finally claim to have a basis for your smugness.

Here’s my source: you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about and I do lmfao. Call me when that changes.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

wait, is it confirmed that Old Jyoukaryuu is stronger than both Kansaro and Gakushou? I can see him being stronger than the latter though.

 

[MarineHQ]

wait, is it confirmed that Old Jyoukaryuu is stronger than both Kansaro and Gakushou? I can see him being stronger than the latter though.

He was the previous strongest Seika General right ?
I guess you could say that

 

[Owl Ki]

wait, is it confirmed that Old Jyoukaryuu is stronger than both Kansaro and Gakushou? I can see him being stronger than the latter though.

His own claim was that he was the previous strongest General of Seika before Jiaga appeared. No hard timeframe on when any of this happened.

 

[Monet]

We don’t know that at all actually, Riboku was slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Xiongnu before any other states had heard of him. Literally no one knew who Riboku was even after he butchered 130,000 Xiongnu one sidedly. Riboku wouldn’t have nominated Shibashou for the 3GH rank if he was just bullying small bandit camps lol



The 3GH rank is just a small fraction of Shibashou’s hype is the thing. The ground cracks when he walks, his subordinate is being compared to Moubu, Shiryou showed no fear of Houken while simultaneously trembling from Shibashou’s presence.

Renpa doesn’t even have a quarter of that martial hype. I Renpa has been used by Hara to directly compare more martial generals than any other character in Kingdom.

i am not against sbs having something hidden like rbk or we don't know it yet
i am against him being compared to renpa while it's not revealed yet !!
this my point.

nah renpa hype was straight to the point qhile sbs is not clear yet yep huge but not clear as it was with renpa .

sbs has to show alot of things or atleast reveal his past experience etc to make him comparable to renpa

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

I'm betting on Renpa against almost everyone, he's the GOAT and it's far too early to root for SBS against a Legend, he has to show alot for me to consider changing my opinion.

As for the subordinates. I think Seika Generals are a solid group of strong Generals. But strategically they've much to prove to match Genpo, and Kyou' en.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

wait, is it confirmed that Old Jyoukaryuu is stronger than both Kansaro and Gakushou? I can see him being stronger than the latter though.

It is not. It was confirmed that Jyoukaryuu was at one point the strongest warrior in Seika until Jiaga, but nothing is known about how he compares to Gakushou or Kansaro at any point in time.

i am not against sbs having something hidden like rbk or we don't know it yet
i am against him being compared to renpa while it's not revealed yet !!

It is revealed. He has already been compared to Renpa by Riboku himself being nominated for the same rank that Renpa held…lol

You will bring up Houken, but Renpa being a stronger warrior than Houken has never been even remotely implied lol.

“Renpa had weight!!” So did Kyou and Duke Hyou. How did that help against Houken?

Hell even Gekishin claimed he had the strength of a Great General lol:

If Renpa hadn’t been directly compared to like five other warriors at this point you might have a case, but Renpa fans are still seeing mirages in the desert of Renpa’s martial hype it seems lol.

And this is without me even mentioning that Hara may have very well just intentionally hyped Shibashou above Houken while never even hyping Renpa above Kaishibou…

nah renpa hype was straight to the point qhile sbs is not clear yet yep huge but not clear as it was with renpa .

…And this is supposed to be a point against Shibashou? The fact that Hara has hyped us for five years about this giant 3GH level commander is somehow supposed to be a point in favor of Renpa? How does that work lol?

Was Renpa hyped for five goddamn years solely by virtue of his martial merit? No, not even close. Renpa was hyped for half a chapter by virtue of his merit as a general and not solely as a warrior, meanwhile Hara has teased Shibashou’s massive martial merit for five years straight. The ground fucking cracks from Shibashou’s footsteps dude. Not Man’U, not Moubu, not Houken, not Kanmei, nobody in the history of this manga has had such severe martial hype.

If Renpa was a 9 foot tall mongoloid who cracks the earth when he walks and has a legion of ape men as his subordinates, yall would be ready to declare him the strongest in the history of China, lol

 

[MarineHQ]

It is not. It was confirmed that Jyoukaryuu was at one point the strongest warrior in Seika until Jiaga, but nothing is known about how he compares to Gakushou or Kansaro at any point in time.



It is revealed. He has already been compared to Renpa by Riboku himself being nominated for the same rank that Renpa held…lol

You will bring up Houken, but Renpa being a stronger warrior than Houken has never been even remotely implied lol.

“Renpa had weight!!” So did Kyou and Duke Hyou. How did that help against Houken?

Hell even Gekishin claimed he had the strength of a Great General lol:

If Renpa hadn’t been directly compared to like five other warriors at this point you might have a case, but Renpa fans are still seeing mirages in the desert of Renpa’s martial hype it seems lol.

And this is without me even mentioning that Hara may have very well just intentionally hyped Shibashou above Houken while never even hyping Renpa above Kaishibou…



…And this is supposed to be a point against Shibashou? The fact that Hara has hyped us for five years about this giant 3GH level commander is somehow supposed to be a point in favor of Renpa? How does that work lol?

Was Renpa hyped for five goddamn years solely by virtue of his martial merit? No, not even close. Renpa was hyped for half a chapter by virtue of his merit as a general and not solely as a warrior, meanwhile Hara has teased Shibashou’s massive martial merit for five years straight. The ground fucking cracks from Shibashou’s footsteps dude. Not Man’U, not Moubu, not Houken, not Kanmei, nobody in the history of this manga has had such severe martial hype.

If Renpa was a 9 foot tall mongoloid who cracks the earth when he walks and has a legion of ape men as his subordinates, yall would be ready to declare him the strongest in the history of China, lol

Man Gekishin looked like such a fucking clown lmao.

Should've given him a small W first

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Man Gekishin looked like such a fucking clown lmao.

Should've given him a small W first

This is why I’ve always told people that Houken grew stronger between Bayou and Coalition. The entire framing around him defeating Gekishin the same way Ouki almost one-armed him, after having Gekishin explicitly state that he had a Great General’s strength and having Houken flashback to Ouki,

Suggests that Houken did grow as a fighter after Bayou the same way Moubu did. I’m not opposed to @Owl Ki ’s “Gekishin is just a mercenary” take in concept, except for the fact that it is not supported by the canon at all and if you go back and reread the fight, Gekishin not only claimed to have a Great General’s strength but Houken actually flashed back to Ouki when he heard Gekishin speak.

Idk man. I really think Houken gets slept on in a lot of these discussions lol.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

This is why I’ve always told people that Houken grew stronger between Bayou and Coalition. The entire framing around him defeating Gekishin the same way Ouki almost one-armed him, after having Gekishin explicitly state that he had a Great General’s strength and having Houken flashback to Ouki,

I didn't like how Duke Hyou got nearly low-diffed by Houken even though he can give Ouki a good fight, so I'm in favor of this interpretation. Though Riboku did say that Houken already peaked when he killed Kyou which kinda muddy things.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I didn't like how Duke Hyou got nearly low-diffed by Houken even though he can give Ouki a good fight, so I'm in favor of this interpretation. Though Riboku did say that Houken already peaked when he killed Kyou which kinda muddy things.

Yeah Ouki himself said Duke Hyou would give him a good fight and Houken just demolished Duke Hyou. So I always said Houken just straight up grew stronger, and again at Shukai Plains there was a moment the soldiers stated that Houken seemed stronger than ever.

Riboku’s statement, imo, can really just be ignored as all of Houken’s growth and character development happens internally. Riboku didn’t witness any of Houken’s growth, but we as the reader do. So his words aren’t worth much.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

This is why I’ve always told people that Houken grew stronger between Bayou and Coalition. The entire framing around him defeating Gekishin the same way Ouki almost one-armed him, after having Gekishin explicitly state that he had a Great General’s strength and having Houken flashback to Ouki,

Suggests that Houken did grow as a fighter after Bayou the same way Moubu did. I’m not opposed to @Owl Ki ’s “Gekishin is just a mercenary” take in concept, except for the fact that it is not supported by the canon at all and if you go back and reread the fight, Gekishin not only claimed to have a Great General’s strength but Houken actually flashed back to Ouki when he heard Gekishin speak.

Idk man. I really think Houken gets slept on in a lot of these discussions lol.

I recall a Zhao solider saying that Houken had gotten even stronger.

It was during the Duke Hyou duel.

I didn't like how Duke Hyou got nearly low-diffed by Houken even though he can give Ouki a good fight, so I'm in favor of this interpretation. Though Riboku did say that Houken already peaked when he killed Kyou which kinda muddy things.

Tbf to Duke Hyou, he had spent 15 days fighting in a war.

 

[Rumble]

Hou Ken was at the peak of his confidence at Bayou and therefore at his strongest.

Though he had likely reached the pinnacle of martial ability by the time he first encountered Ou Ki, he could chalk the first loss in his life up to simply being weak and disadvantaged due to injuries sustained fighting Kyou. He survived certain death, took a year to recover and had almost a decade of constant training to build his confidence before facing Ou Ki again.

When he faced Ou Ki at Bayou, not only did he not have injuries, but Ou Ki had since grieved and accepted Kyou's passing, so when he fought Hou Ken, it was about more than revenge, it was really about finally moving on from that chapter in his life. Ou Ki didn't bull rush at the peak of his rage and strength to beat him this time, instead Hou Ken got his own licks in while drawing that strength out.

Bayou left a crack in Hou Ken's belief in his path. Regardless of his words to Ou Ki at the time, the circumstances of his victory left him dissatisfied and somewhat shaken in his self-belief. That small crack would grow larger in every subsequent battle he fought against Qin, as he would come to face the weight of Duke Hyou, Shin and Kyou Kai. Even Ko Zen left his mark on Hou Ken - literally.

It was during that final battle that Hou Ken's belief in his path and strength completely shattered, and that's why he lost.

The tragic irony of Hou Ken is that he was the strongest, but he didn't possess real strength derived from believing in people, and because of that, he couldn't really believe in his own strength, because people with real strength kept chipping away at the source of his own.