Powers & Abilities Shanks needs better skill
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I never once focused on Shanks if you read every single post of mine in this thread. I've literally been talking about Haki.
And I love how you cut off the part where I said If a Swordsman uses a technique that relies on Haki then it counts. Lmfao...
Oh man, I was really defending Shanks there, wasn't I?
What are you even talking about? It works both ways. That's why Luffy who had weaker Haki than Katakuri, could physically overpower and break through Katakuri's haki with G4.
So if Zoro had weaker Haki than someone as physically inferior as Tashigi, he'd still wreck her with Asura, because not only is Zoro MUCH stronger than Tashigi, Asura is 1000x times stronger than any Sword technique Tashigi has.
We know for a concrete fact that Luffy and Kaido had equal Haki. That means their final clash didn't come down to whose haki was stronger, but rather whose attack was stronger.
And if Mihawk sits at the pinnacle of Haki, then that means Zoro can never surpass his haki, only match it...... How will Zoro beat Mihawk if his haki can never be stronger, only equal to? Oh, I know... How about how Luffy beat Kaido? Same level of Haki, but Luffy's attack was stronger....
Dude bodied his own argument in the same post......
And I love how you cut off the part where I said If a Swordsman uses a technique that relies on Haki then it counts. Lmfao...
Oh man, I was really defending Shanks there, wasn't I?
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Nope. You clearly forget that not everyone is made equal physically and thats why haki exist, to conquer everything, as Kaido said.
And when you go to peak of haki like Mihawks you will understand that it is unbeatable.
As people pointed out, imaginary IF scenarios are pointless as they arent a reality.
One day you will power scale well, Kiiro-chin...
And when you go to peak of haki like Mihawks you will understand that it is unbeatable.
As people pointed out, imaginary IF scenarios are pointless as they arent a reality.
One day you will power scale well, Kiiro-chin...
So if Zoro had weaker Haki than someone as physically inferior as Tashigi, he'd still wreck her with Asura, because not only is Zoro MUCH stronger than Tashigi, Asura is 1000x times stronger than any Sword technique Tashigi has.
We know for a concrete fact that Luffy and Kaido had equal Haki. That means their final clash didn't come down to whose haki was stronger, but rather whose attack was stronger.
And if Mihawk sits at the pinnacle of Haki, then that means Zoro can never surpass his haki, only match it...... How will Zoro beat Mihawk if his haki can never be stronger, only equal to? Oh, I know... How about how Luffy beat Kaido? Same level of Haki, but Luffy's attack was stronger....
Dude bodied his own argument in the same post......
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This is simply copium. Or you arent taking seriously Kaido's words.
Your examples work on fodder but you haven't seen the peak of haki yet.
According to your argument, Zoro doesn't need stronger haki than Mihawk because he can beat him with Asura.
Funny enough, this was my own argument when I was saying that Zoro is already the strongest in the world.
I have realized that it is just copium and nothing else. Mihawk cannot be beaten through sheer force.
As long as you don't surpass his haki, he is unbeatable. That way Zoro's dream is also impossible for all others.
Completely wrong, Zoro is the only one who can surpass Mihawk's haki because that's what the plot requires of him.
Wrong about Kaido and Luffy, in more ways than one.
We could say they had equal haki at start. Then Kaido drank sake and his haki became stronger, as impossible as it is technically.
Then, Luffy achieved growth and Awakened and his haki also became stronger.
Whether they arrived at equal haki again at that point is complete guess work.
One thing is certain, Luffy didn't win that clash because he was stronger physically, because Kaido literally matched him for couple of chapters. The raw power was equal and there was no sign of haki being used from Kaido's side in the first place.
The reason why it went into Luffy's favor ultimately is just narrative decision to bring an already dragged-out fight to a conclusion.
My own headcanon is that Kaido also reached his stamina limit in that moment as he was constantly drained from lifting Onigashima.
Exerting himself into Blazing Bagua in that moment has pushed him to the limit and after equaling Bairang Gun he reached his limit and was overpowered.
It's not all about haki, Nik. And thanks to Oda that is not like that, it would be boring and linear
Everything is necessary and adds up to be the strongest in the world.
But in this case, yes, Mihawk is number 1, not only in haki (Kokuto), but in skill, technique, ability, he is also xD
Physically we don't know. But he must also be a monster if he is a human and does not have the power of an akuma.
In short, someone with haki level 10 can lose against someone with haki level 9, if they surpass them in many other aspects.
That's why Shanks fans, it doesn't matter if they say that Shanks' coc is superior to Mihawk's, in the global calculation Mihawk is superior because he is Zoro's final goal and the one who has the title of "Strongest Swordsman in the World."
Everything is necessary and adds up to be the strongest in the world.
But in this case, yes, Mihawk is number 1, not only in haki (Kokuto), but in skill, technique, ability, he is also xD
Physically we don't know. But he must also be a monster if he is a human and does not have the power of an akuma.
In short, someone with haki level 10 can lose against someone with haki level 9, if they surpass them in many other aspects.
That's why Shanks fans, it doesn't matter if they say that Shanks' coc is superior to Mihawk's, in the global calculation Mihawk is superior because he is Zoro's final goal and the one who has the title of "Strongest Swordsman in the World."
This is simply copium. Or you arent taking seriously Kaido's words.
Your examples work on fodder but you haven't seen the peak of haki yet.
According to your argument, Zoro doesn't need stronger haki than Mihawk because he can beat him with Asura.
Funny enough, this was my own argument when I was saying that Zoro is already the strongest in the world.
I have realized that it is just copium and nothing else. Mihawk cannot be beaten through sheer force.
As long as you don't surpass his haki, he is unbeatable. That way Zoro's dream is also impossible for all others.
Completely wrong, Zoro is the only one who can surpass Mihawk's haki because that's what the plot requires of him.
Wrong about Kaido and Luffy, in more ways than one.
We could say they had equal haki at start. Then Kaido drank sake and his haki became stronger, as impossible as it is technically.
Then, Luffy achieved growth and Awakened and his haki also became stronger.
Whether they arrived at equal haki again at that point is complete guess work.
One thing is certain, Luffy didn't win that clash because he was stronger physically, because Kaido literally matched him for couple of chapters. The raw power was equal and there was no sign of haki being used from Kaido's side in the first place.
The reason why it went into Luffy's favor ultimately is just narrative decision to bring an already dragged-out fight to a conclusion.
My own headcanon is that Kaido also reached his stamina limit in that moment as he was constantly drained from lifting Onigashima.
Exerting himself into Blazing Bagua in that moment has pushed him to the limit and after equaling Bairang Gun he reached his limit and was overpowered.
Mihawk having the strongest haki in the verse is another headcanon nonsense. Nothing in the story even remotely suggests it. He has a black blade? Cool. Where in the story does it says only the person with the strongest haki can make a blade blade? Nowhere. It's because other characters haven't made a black blade? Cool... Show me in the manga where it says how to make a black blade, and again where it says you need the strongest haki. You can't cause it doesn't exist. You just assume this is the case.
You guys talk about me and my "what if" scenarios when all you do is make up your own reasonings of how things are without a shred of evidence, while completely ignoring events that actually happen in the manga.
So unless you are going to come to me with concrete panels that actually support your claims, I dont want to hear it. Hypothetical reasoning proves nothing, which is all you have. I on the other hand have given actual in manga examples that completely shut down your arguments.
Then you guys get all twisted up and can't keep your arguments straight. Argue the level of someone's haki directly correlates to their level of strength in one breath, then turn around and argue that Haki can make someone whose level of strength is lower, automatically as strong, if not stronger than that person. It can't be both ways. Luffy didn't magically rise to Kaido's overall level of strength when he unlocked an equal level of AdCoC. He needed G5 in order to do that.
It's beyond laughable at this point. Yall can carry on, quote me, and do whatever you want, but I'm done with this circus.
"I have pushed myself harder than anyone else. What do I still lack?"
This is Zoro's internal monologue during the time when he focused on physical power.
And from that moment onwards, all upgrades he received were haki and nothing but haki.
There was only one exception which is the perfect body aka Demon God. Even that could be tied to haki aka willpower.
Physical power is the most basic way of achieving Power, everyone has it and trains it.
Complex moves are a step above that but Zoro already had that as well when he wondered what he is lacking.
Haki is the biggest multiplication in the show, it is the only reason why "we are 100 times stronger" is a thing.
Base Luffy is not as physically as strong as Kaido and yet, thanks to Haki, he can match his hybrid.
Haki is the ultimate power, mentioned in chapter 100 as one of the 3 unstoppable things - willpower, dreams and flow of time.
Kaido's words that "Haki conquers everything" arent there on accident because Haki truly is above everything else.
Feels like I am writing to a wall... Once again, I say, your argument works on fodder but you will eventually realize it is wrong when you reach the peak of haki. Kaido literally told Luffy that haki is what is needed because it conquers everything in the moment when he was showing off a DF awakening and told him that he cannot conquer the seas with a DF ability. If you didn't understand this scene, it is all pointless but considering that you still push the raw power argument, doesn't seem like you got it, because it worked on fodder...
Mihawk having the strongest haki is a fact, Yoru is proof of it. Nobody else in all the universe and in all the timeline has managed to forge a stronger weapon than Yoru. The only reason why you are coping about this is because you know what it means regarding Luffy.
You are completely mistaken, this is not about black blade. It is about that Black Blade being the strongest weapon in the show and it was forged into strongest through Mihawk's haki. If someone else had stronger haki, Yoru wouldn't be the strongest weapon in the world. Put 2 and 2 together considering that Zoro was told to use his will(haki) to surpass Yoru in order to surpass Mihawk.
This is a very simple matter, it only gets complicated if you are looking for ways to make Luffy stronger than those two. Not possible.
Forget Luffy, he is only making it worse for you. You are ignoring the fact that it was G5 that made Luffy's haki stronger because it is a new growth. Not that it was ever a bright idea power scaling based on Luffy who makes heaven and earth turn just in order to stay alive...
And what I told you is not headcanons or hypothetical reasoning, you have evidence for all of it in the manga, specifically chapter 51 and use Stephen's translations. Afaik, you agreed with me what Zoro's Demon God is and how it came into existence. Oda didn't spell it out and never will. Doesnt stop us from figuring it out.
This is Zoro's internal monologue during the time when he focused on physical power.
And from that moment onwards, all upgrades he received were haki and nothing but haki.
There was only one exception which is the perfect body aka Demon God. Even that could be tied to haki aka willpower.
Physical power is the most basic way of achieving Power, everyone has it and trains it.
Complex moves are a step above that but Zoro already had that as well when he wondered what he is lacking.
Haki is the biggest multiplication in the show, it is the only reason why "we are 100 times stronger" is a thing.
Base Luffy is not as physically as strong as Kaido and yet, thanks to Haki, he can match his hybrid.
Haki is the ultimate power, mentioned in chapter 100 as one of the 3 unstoppable things - willpower, dreams and flow of time.
Kaido's words that "Haki conquers everything" arent there on accident because Haki truly is above everything else.
Feels like I am writing to a wall... Once again, I say, your argument works on fodder but you will eventually realize it is wrong when you reach the peak of haki. Kaido literally told Luffy that haki is what is needed because it conquers everything in the moment when he was showing off a DF awakening and told him that he cannot conquer the seas with a DF ability. If you didn't understand this scene, it is all pointless but considering that you still push the raw power argument, doesn't seem like you got it, because it worked on fodder...
Mihawk having the strongest haki is a fact, Yoru is proof of it. Nobody else in all the universe and in all the timeline has managed to forge a stronger weapon than Yoru. The only reason why you are coping about this is because you know what it means regarding Luffy.
You are completely mistaken, this is not about black blade. It is about that Black Blade being the strongest weapon in the show and it was forged into strongest through Mihawk's haki. If someone else had stronger haki, Yoru wouldn't be the strongest weapon in the world. Put 2 and 2 together considering that Zoro was told to use his will(haki) to surpass Yoru in order to surpass Mihawk.
This is a very simple matter, it only gets complicated if you are looking for ways to make Luffy stronger than those two. Not possible.
Forget Luffy, he is only making it worse for you. You are ignoring the fact that it was G5 that made Luffy's haki stronger because it is a new growth. Not that it was ever a bright idea power scaling based on Luffy who makes heaven and earth turn just in order to stay alive...
And what I told you is not headcanons or hypothetical reasoning, you have evidence for all of it in the manga, specifically chapter 51 and use Stephen's translations. Afaik, you agreed with me what Zoro's Demon God is and how it came into existence. Oda didn't spell it out and never will. Doesnt stop us from figuring it out.
But not everything is so simple or has to be mentioned. Zoro is constantly improving both physically, technically, and in haki.
Many of his feats are not due to haki alone. Many of his feats are due to his dexterity, agility, endurance, strength, etc. And that's okay, that's why it's going to be number 1. Without being of a special race, without the power of a god of a fruit, without genetic modifications, just will (haki), perseverance and sacrifice (physical) and learning and practice (skill)
Many of his feats are not due to haki alone. Many of his feats are due to his dexterity, agility, endurance, strength, etc. And that's okay, that's why it's going to be number 1. Without being of a special race, without the power of a god of a fruit, without genetic modifications, just will (haki), perseverance and sacrifice (physical) and learning and practice (skill)
I think he is maxed out physically a long time ago, a new techniques do appear here and there but they are usually just renamed version of older moves due to haki or something else. Ever since Alabasta when he wondered what he lacks, he kept getting only haki power-ups and there is no end in sight for them.
Surely, Zoro is excellent in everything else but techniques and physical power are easily capped.
Haki, on the other side, is the hardest but most rewarding way and considering how hard it is to achieve a weapon stronger than Yoru, even for a guy who already went above the power of the handful of the very strongest, it becomes clear why Haki indeed is what conquers everything.
In order to do the impossible, beating Mihawk, Zoro has to surpass his haki, no other ability will help him beat him but haki.
Surely, Zoro is excellent in everything else but techniques and physical power are easily capped.
Haki, on the other side, is the hardest but most rewarding way and considering how hard it is to achieve a weapon stronger than Yoru, even for a guy who already went above the power of the handful of the very strongest, it becomes clear why Haki indeed is what conquers everything.
In order to do the impossible, beating Mihawk, Zoro has to surpass his haki, no other ability will help him beat him but haki.
But I don't think that physically he is at the maximum of his qualities, it is shonen logic. Zoro will strengthen his hakis and achieve new techniques, and in turn he will become faster, stronger, more resistant. In fact, we have the best proof constantly since the time jump. Zoro pre, was not faster than Luffy G2, but now, base Zoro is even faster than Luffy G2/4, with strength and destructive power we can say the same, Zoro > G3/4. And that's not just because of the haki.
Fruit users use their powers to make themselves stronger, they don't just use haki. (Gorousei, Luffy, admirals, BM, Kaido, etc)
Zoro Homurasaki has nothing to do with haki, it is skill, and it became stronger, clear lance is a technique that allows him to fly, and it improved. Against Lucci he used a new technique and his feat of dodging with ease I doubt he used haki, Zoro is so physically good that I think he simply dodged it because of his "basic stats" which are very high.
And the Dai shinkan that he used against Monet had high power and destruction capacity without using haki, we know that he did not use haki because he did not kill her xD
Fruit users use their powers to make themselves stronger, they don't just use haki. (Gorousei, Luffy, admirals, BM, Kaido, etc)
Zoro Homurasaki has nothing to do with haki, it is skill, and it became stronger, clear lance is a technique that allows him to fly, and it improved. Against Lucci he used a new technique and his feat of dodging with ease I doubt he used haki, Zoro is so physically good that I think he simply dodged it because of his "basic stats" which are very high.
And the Dai shinkan that he used against Monet had high power and destruction capacity without using haki, we know that he did not use haki because he did not kill her xD
I don't think anyone disagrees with what you are saying, everything is included.
However, what is the most important part of the total strength of a character?
Physical stats, techniques or Haki? I think we would all agree that it is haki.
After all, it is factual that it is is a 100x buff. No other ability can boost this much, not even close.
What is the thing that gives people the edge over others in the peak of top tiers?
Haki. And we haven't even seen the peak of haki yet. We only got a glimpse of it through Zoro's KOH.
However, what is the most important part of the total strength of a character?
Physical stats, techniques or Haki? I think we would all agree that it is haki.
After all, it is factual that it is is a 100x buff. No other ability can boost this much, not even close.
What is the thing that gives people the edge over others in the peak of top tiers?
Haki. And we haven't even seen the peak of haki yet. We only got a glimpse of it through Zoro's KOH.