Controversial Should we separate the art from the artist or should we judge the art how we judge the artist

[Tobra]

So rurouni kenshin is getting an anime remake so it sparked a discussion

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573749949816356865

it’s not just about this but in general should we separate the art from the artist or treat and judge it as we see the artist

there’s also the question of even if you separate them, does consuming and using their products count as supporting them? even if you condemn their actions you would still increase their wealth thus their influence

but on the other hand there’s sometimes where you’re backed into a corner and would have no choice but to go with the norm

thoughts

Spoiler: tags

@RayanOO @Doggo @Playa4321 @AL sama @Natalija @Reborn @Gehrman @djiayebee @Seth @BangOO🍅 @Sentinel @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Light D Lamperouge @NikaInParis @Kagurashii @Nana

 

[NikaInParis]

In my opinion: absolutely not.

The art is the product of that person's mind and thus has to be judged on that merit as well, and not only on whether it is drawn well or not.

Liking his story doesn't make anyone a pedophile. Before his conviction nobody could have known (ig, don't know anything about the guy).

But also, disliking the art based on what you know about the artist is imo valid. Art is emotion, and if your morality lrts you know that the art you are looking at is unenjoyable, then that's a fair assessment of it.

Here's an example from pro wrestling: Chris Benoit

While he was alive and active in wrestling, fans used to love his matches. They were hard hitting, action packed, and almost felt real.

But he was also a well known backstage bully. And one day, he murdered his underage son, his wife, and finally strangled himself in the span of one weekend. His existance was completely erased from WWE (where he worked prior to his death) and he has never been mentioned again.

Till this day you have fans advocating that he absolutely has to be in the WWE Hall of Fame however. On the basis of his in-ring work ofc, saying we should separate the art from the artist.

Awarding the art or work of such people is completely unjustifiable. Yes, it is in the ether and everybody can still find it and read it. But actively advertising it with the name of a monster beside it is wrong on many levels

 

[K!NG HARA$H!MA]

Well, me personally don't like to go *full cancel" mode.

I'd would acknowledge what he did was wrong but also acknowledge his talent (even if that means somehow contribute to his wealth/influence). It's easy to separate but as always people will guilt trip you saying there's no distinction


Inb4 the *moral police* dudes who thinks acknowledging his talents means you're automatically in support of their every action. Retarded.

 

[BangOO🍅]

What is rurouni kenshin??

 

[Reborn]

Whosoever committed the crimes must be punished accordingly.

Once the punishment has been met I don't think there is need of continuously punishing them through boycott or harassment or any such things done by public because it goes against Rehabilitation Justice.

By, doing so you are again pushing that person to do crime coz if that person wants to redeem himself then you people would make it extremely difficult to do so.


In law there is a saying - no person should be punished for same offence twice.


Also, who are we to stereotype and act like Moral police when court of law already punished the person and he served whatever he got?


After punishment has been met, his talent should be appreciated.

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

Stop giving your money to shitty people and companies. I used to shop regularly at some place until they were found guilty of mass-scale wage theft. Haven’t spent a cent there since. It’s not a comment on the quality of their products, I just don’t believe thieves and scammers deserve to prosper off my money.

 

[wordy]

It's impossible to separate them. Any information a reader has about an author will consciously or unconsciously influence how that reader perceives a work. Even knowing a small fact like the author's hometown can influence readers-- when the fact is something horrifying like this, there's no way to separate the two.

It sucks. I liked Rurouni Kenshin a lot, but watching it now would be weird. I haven't kept up with the movies, but I think they made one recently. Is he getting money from those? Will he get money from the remake? It would be too gross to see his name on the opening sequence... I wonder if Crunchyroll will even carry it. Has that been announced?

I don't really care to watch the remake, but I admit I was excited to see the trailer. Still, of all the anime that deserve a remake, why this? I hope it flops. He deserves to be in jail or at the very least socially/professionally shunned.

 

[Seth]

So rurouni kenshin is getting an anime remake so it sparked a discussion

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1573749949816356865

it’s not just about this but in general should we separate the art from the artist or treat and judge it as we see the artist

there’s also the question of even if you separate them, does consuming and using their products count as supporting them? even if you condemn their actions you would still increase their wealth thus their influence

but on the other hand there’s sometimes where you’re backed into a corner and would have no choice but to go with the norm

thoughts

Spoiler: tags

@RayanOO @Doggo @Playa4321 @AL sama @Natalija @Reborn @Gehrman @djiayebee @Seth @BangOO🍅 @Sentinel @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Light D Lamperouge @NikaInParis @Kagurashii @Nana

It is problematic. I think you should separate this question for people who started the series and were deep and for those who have a chance to start it.

I think overall we should separate art from the artist but the problem here is way much bigger than just art.

Ruroni Kenshin will get media exposure again, there is no way no one will be interested if the author is doing well, who is the author, and if he did something famous before/or making something at the moment.

One way or another people will get to the information about what he was fined for/accused for.

Not only it leaves a bad taste in the mouth but it also promotes the idea of not paying for your sins or paying for your sins with 1900$ that is and getting back into the Magazine where u get the interview with your "friend" who is the biggest author in the country and somewhat recognizable around the world.


Shueisha, Japan, and whoever made this happen should be fucking ashamed. No dignity or honor.

The interview with Oda was like a bullet in the knee already and now he will get media exposure for free.



tl;dr Japan shows you that possessing child pornography is worth 1900$ in their land.

 

[Doggo]

Honestly, not gonna tell you what to do.
You know where you draw your line of tolerance.
I don't separate. Child pornography possession? That's an easy "never touching anything made by this man ever again" case for me.

 

[Adam 🍎]

Giving money to feed someones sick addiction is not my thing chief

 

[Doggo]

In my opinion: absolutely not.

The art is the product of that person's mind and thus has to be judged on that merit as well, and not only on whether it is drawn well or not.

Liking his story doesn't make anyone a pedophile. Before his conviction nobody could have known (ig, don't know anything about the guy).

But also, disliking the art based on what you know about the artist is imo valid. Art is emotion, and if your morality lrts you know that the art you are looking at is unenjoyable, then that's a fair assessment of it.

Here's an example from pro wrestling: Chris Benoit

While he was alive and active in wrestling, fans used to love his matches. They were hard hitting, action packed, and almost felt real.

But he was also a well known backstage bully. And one day, he murdered his underage son, his wife, and finally strangled himself in the span of one weekend. His existance was completely erased from WWE (where he worked prior to his death) and he has never been mentioned again.

Till this day you have fans advocating that he absolutely has to be in the WWE Hall of Fame however. On the basis of his in-ring work ofc, saying we should separate the art from the artist.

Awarding the art or work of such people is completely unjustifiable. Yes, it is in the ether and everybody can still find it and read it. But actively advertising it with the name of a monster beside it is wrong on many levels

Don't know who that dude is, but based on what you wrote, I think this guy should never get a spot of honor.
I have a very strong feeling about how sports should be a source of good inspiration for people and are so much more than just the sport itself.
Giving some honor post-mortem to a man who committed such brutality is unthinkable. Heck, if he had his name on this Hall of Fame prior to the crime, it would be the case of removing his name from there. Completely bonkers that people would argue to put him there after what he did.

 

[uyuu]

Wat...child porn? I didnt know about this at all, so like did he like to watch porn vids containing 16-17 old girls or 8-10 old girls? Those two things are radically different from each other imo.

 

[Tobra]

Whosoever committed the crimes must be punished accordingly.

Once the punishment has been met I don't think there is need of continuously punishing them through boycott or harassment or any such things done by public because it goes against Rehabilitation Justice.

By, doing so you are again pushing that person to do crime coz if that person wants to redeem himself then you people would make it extremely difficult to do so.


In law there is a saying - no person should be punished for same offence twice.


Also, who are we to stereotype and act like Moral police when court of law already punished the person and he served whatever he got?


After punishment has been met, his talent should be appreciated.

i think there’s a couple of problems with what you are saying, sure the law is what the world abides by but law isn’t a good measure for morality, a guy who commits fraud and tax evasion would get more jail time than a rapist or a murder and that has been true

as for the author he was only fined 2000$ and suspended for half a year it doesn’t really reflect well when all he did was pay a week work a months salary at max

i would like to add getting jail time isnt the only punishment that someone gets when committing a crime, they would also get labeled a criminal and would have a record for life

there’s a reason people would be on lists even if they served their time, some can never get near children some can never own guns

n my opinion: absolutely not.

The art is the product of that person's mind and thus has to be judged on that merit as well, and not only on whether it is drawn well or not.

Liking his story doesn't make anyone a pedophile. Before his conviction nobody could have known (ig, don't know anything about the guy).

But also, disliking the art based on what you know about the artist is imo valid. Art is emotion, and if your morality lrts you know that the art you are looking at is unenjoyable, then that's a fair assessment of it.

i agree, i think people are allowed to hate the art based on the artists

people are valid in trying to silence it and going against it because no matter how much they will remove his involvement(which isn’t even guaranteed) people would still go and pick up the manga and which he would profit off and in the end contribute to funding him

even if he never does it again, someone should never have support after doing something like that

 

[Mr.9000]

I always keep them separate, fan of art, not necessary of the person. Would still support talented people even if I think theyre disgusting

 

[Enma]

I try to keep them separate. Being a shitty person does not make your talent suddenly non-existent. Of course if your talent is crime itself, then fuck you.

 

[vikas]

if you want to acknowledge the art. Do it. But won't be spporting it as in the end it is going to the artist.

 

[Just a member]

If you read a manga/comic imo you have to judge everything, the art itself is part of the story and then rate it accordingly to the level of enjoyment the product gives to you. To make an example I like very much HxH even if in certain chapters the art is so bad it is laughable still I believe it is one of the best manga or even the best. On the other hand solo leveling has an over the top art but the story is at best average so the whole product for me is a boring, repetitive story with a gary stue main character but awesome art. So overall average at best, art for me comes later as importance to judge a work (but I think it is so for almost everyone). A lot of light novels are better than manga simply because of the story, characters and MC, worldbuilding etc. Art is just icing on the cake and sometimes it can even be something that decreases the value of the product.

 

[vikas]

Honestly, not gonna tell you what to do.
You know where you draw your line of tolerance.
I don't separate. Child pornography possession? That's an easy "never touching anything made by this man ever again" case for me.

Oda is having party with him though.

Post automatically merged: Sep 28, 2022

Honestly I think they don't think his crime i.e. being in possession on CP to be that much of a big deal...since in japan they make CP anyway. Thats why he got reinstated. We know companies usually cut ties and stuff for PR...not doing that just means they don't really think of it as a big Deal. Yuck Japan wth.

 

[AL sama]

I truly hate the author but no matter what I can't hate the series

I can't say I m right or those who will boycott it are wrong

so judge for yourself what you want to do

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Don’t think you should judge the art based on how you feel about the author.