Powers & Abilities So does everyone agree Enma not a power up now.

[ImmaIvanoM]

It's a means of becoming stronger, Zoro stated it, so I consider it a PU. I don't think it's necessary to overthink this.

Right Zoro says mastering the sword makes him stronger.

Done. The training to master the sword makes him stronger. Same as training from Hyogoro makes Luffy stronger.

Hehehe. Its just a sword. Same way Oden cut Kaido with Ame no Habakiri, it's oden who is strong, not the sword

 

[Lunaria]

Right Zoro says mastering the sword makes him stronger.

Done. The training to master the sword makes him stronger. Same as training from Hyogoro makes Luffy stronger.

Hehehe. Its just a sword. Same way Oden cut Kaido with Ame no Habakiri, it's oden who is strong, not the sword

I wouldn't compare a tool to a teacher.

 

[Ravagerblade]

Yes Zoro learned how to cut steel in alabasta. That's a general technique he added to his arsenal.

Then in Skypiea he used all three swords, all of which are different ranks, and he cut steel again.

Like the one thing that's clear in the story is that higher tier swords do more wanton damage than lower tier swords. Note the word "WANTON"

Sandai Kitetsu was forcing Zoro to cut people too hard in Whiskey peak

Shusui was too heavy and Zoro accidentally created a bigger slash than he wanted to in Thriller bark and failed to execute 108 canon yet that's a move he literally pulled off the very first time he tried it in Skypiea

Enma causes Zoro to use to much Haki than he wanted to use.

The through line with all these swords is that when Zoro doesnt know what he's doing, the swords end up forcing him to use too much of his energy or do whatever the hell they want like suck him dry of haki. That's always true since chapter 115 back in Whiskey peak.

And what's also always true is that when Zoro masters the sword, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. Zoro gets stronger from mastering difficult swords. That strengh Zoro achieves from mastery DOESN'T DISAPPEAR when moving from one sword to another.

I'll repeat this until you acknowledge it. Oden used both swords to cut Kaido. So its oden who does the cutting. Not a specific sword

Say whatever you want, Oden used Two swords; Enma and Ame. Those are the swords with the feats, Those are the swords that apparently have attributes when used. Not every sword has the same Attributes. Could Oden have done that feat with a butter Knife?

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I wouldn't compare a tool to a teacher.

That's fine. Doesn't really matter since thats all it is. A training wheel

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Say whatever you want, Oden used Two swords; Enma and Ame. Those are the swords with the feats, Those are the swords that apparently have attributes when used. Not every sword has the same Attributes. Could Oden have done that feat with a butter Knife?

Ohhh? Hehehe.... so what is this "attribute" that makes THOSE TWO SPECIFIC SWORDS the ones that cut Kaido?

Like do they have a like "Kaido kryptonite" or something inside them?

Or does this Haki draining thing exist in both swords? Like Oda is making both swords do the same thing?

If that's what you mean then where was this haki draining when Oden was low diffing Kaido. How come it wasn't a thing?

 

[Ravagerblade]

Ohhh? Hehehe.... so what is this "attribute" that makes THOSE TWO SPECIFIC SWORDS the ones that cut Kaido?

Like do they have a like "Kaido kryptonite" or something inside them?

Or does this Haki draining thing exist in both swords? Like Oda is making both swords do the same thing?

If that's what you mean then where was this haki draining when Oden was low diffing Kaido. How come it wasn't a thing?

We don't know about Ame, We do know about Enma. I'm not saying that it's because of Enma's attribute that Oden cut him, Oden more than likely had it mastered. So the Sword is just an extension of himself. Zoro is not the same. He's working on mastery of it.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

We don't know about Ame, We do know about Enma. I'm not saying that it's because of Enma's attribute that Oden cut him, Oden more than likely had it mastered. So the Sword is just an extension of himself. Zoro is not the same. He's working on mastery of it.

So you are saying Haki draining is the attribute? And Ame no habikiri has ANOTHER SEPERATE attribute that also conveniently is specfically suited to cutting kaido. Okay.

So explain how Haki draining let Oden cut Kaido and also explain why it doesn't show up when we actually see Oden cut kaido

 

[Ravagerblade]

So you are saying Haki draining is the attribute? And Ame no habikiri has ANOTHER SEPERATE attribute that also conveniently is specfically suited to cutting kaido. Okay.

So explain how Haki draining let Oden cut Kaido and also explain why it doesn't show up when we actually see Oden cut kaido

We don't know what Ame has. I'm saying the Haki draining doesn't affect Oden. He has mastery, Zoro doesn't but the sword is still a Power up as it does something he couldn't necessarily do before.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

We don't know what Ame has. I'm saying the Haki draining doesn't affect Oden. He has mastery, Zoro doesn't but the sword is still a Power up as it does something he couldn't necessarily do before.

So what's the attribute of enma that allows Oden to cut Kaido?

 

[Ravagerblade]

So what's the attribute of enma that allows Oden to cut Kaido?

Like I said earlier; Do you think Oden could of done the same thing with a butter knife, You never answered me.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Like I said earlier; Do you think Oden could of done the same thing with a butter knife, You never answered me.

He can do it with Sandai Kitetsu. Same way everything Zoro can do with Wado Ichimonji he can do with Sandai.

Okay I've answered that question. So what is the attribute in Enma that let's Oden cut kaido.

 

[Ravagerblade]

He can do it with Sandai Kitetsu. Same way everything Zoro can do with Wado Ichimonji he can do with Sandai.

Okay I've answered that question. So what is the attribute in Enma that let's Oden cut kaido.

No You have not answered me. If you can't answer me just say so.
If Oden used different swords, could they have broken, maybe, maybe not.

How am I suppose to know, but so far we know swords have different sort of attribute; quit acting like a smartass.

 

[bennbeckman]

Is Enma a power up for Zoro? Or I'd the training Zoro does to tame Enma the power up?
In the same Vein, Is Hyogoro a power up for Luffy too then? Or is it the training Hyogoro gives Luffy that's the power up?

This sums it up well, the sword doesnt make Zoro stronger, it's zoro's training to tame enma that makes him stronger, the same way zoro trained with mihawk, and in luffy's case his training with hyogoro to get stronger.

Best example is Raid Suit is a powerup

Enma is merely a tool in this case a sword zoro needs to get stronger to tame it, hence not a power up.

To sum it up I am in total agreeance with you @ImmaIvanoM

 

[Fiji]

I can understand why people call it a power up, but I feel like that's a weird word to use because Enma is definitely not a "traditional" powerup.

Enma is Oda's way of breaking Zoro's ceiling. It gave him a reason to train and grow stronger. Before Enma, he didn't feel the need to train. It is a training tool.

Enma = Shusui. Current Zoro > Pre Enma Zoro BUT if you give Current Zoro Shusui he will be the exact same power level.

 

[TEACH D TEACH]

All I know is Hiyori should get her sword back. And Get Momo's. I want to see her two sword style it.

As for Enma being a power up, I think so. Can Zoro do what he can with it than what he can without it. And if so, is it easier or not, if yes then you have your answer.

Id like to see her join the crew like:

 

[Sakura no Hiluluk]

Of course it's a power up. Like Raid Suit and Zeus are for Sanji and Nami.

If it wasn't, then why would Oda take away Shusui to replace it with Enma ? There would be no point. Zoro has two swords which he would turn into Black Swords already (Wado Ichimonji, Kitetsu the Third).

Denying that it's a power up is ludicrous.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Oda went full retard with Wa No´s colorings, only thing worse is anime Wa No coloring

 

[MasterD]

It dose more that the other swords, forces zoro to have better haki cotroll so it's a power up

 

[nik87]

Of course it's a power up since it helps him get stronger. It doesn't matter if it's a direct or indirect PU, that's a technicality. It's like saying Room of Spirit and Time in DB is not a power up.

I have never seen you calling the weights which Zoro lifts, a power-up.

@Ravagerblade The power of attacks is not upped because of Enma. Ame has made exactly the same cut that Enma did.

 

[M944]

I never said being used doesn't make him stronger. Just quote where I said that.

I said staging/built-up doesn't let any doubt on Enma. It's a PowerUp.
Until now no one was able to show me a similar built-up for a training tool.
The built-up for Enma is the one for PowerUp and not for training tool.
Therefore Enma is a PowerUp.
Unless you can prove a training tool as the same built-up.
In this case I will agree that Enma is a training tool.



Rayleigh is a mentor like Mihawk for Zoro, Garp for Koby, Jiraya for Naruto, Genkai for Yusuke and so on. Those people are hyped to be great fighters. And because they are great fighters they are teachers.
They aren't the PowerUp or the training tool.
Enma is built-up to be a Powerful Sword.
Rayleigh

An exemaple : When Rayleigh teach CoO to luffy. Luffy have a bandage on his eyes.
Is this bandage built-up to be a Power-Up ?



You dont read manga thats why it doesnt matter for you. It's not a big deal. I understand. Maybe you will read more manga and understand their codes.



Have you seen Nami said I'm powerful after she received Zeus ? No.
Is Nami stronger ? Yes.
How do we know ? Built-up and shonen codes.



So Oda has so much time to lose that he takes 3 chapter to introduce a training tool but only two panel for the actual training.
This seems really logical.

We talk about Oda someone who offscreen fights because he dont want to lose time on them.
But still losing 3 chapter for a training tool. Something he never did.
Even worse he doesnt care about the training.

Wake Up please this situation is ridiculous.

You were wrong guys I told it
@ImmaIvanoM you said it too
Now we all agree it's a PU