Character Discussion So Sanji's emotions didn't make him stronger. Now, does that mean that Judge was right all along? Please explain!

#41
1.niji literally tanked Sanji kick and blitz and kicked his ass in the back. Noji not stronger than Ichji

2. Ok

3. Stating facts. That the story has shown

4. Lol He did jackshit to get that strong. Judge is carrying him
Post automatically merged:


I don't believe one has to do with the other. Sanji is the best cook in One piece IMO , but he shouldn't get strength cause of that.
1. Left out the part where Niji blackmailed him regarding Zeff.

4. If that's what you still want to believe...
 
#42
I don't believe one has to do with the other. Sanji is the best cook in One piece IMO , but he shouldn't get strength cause of that.

Why shouldn't he ? He trained to be that good of a cook, and then his cooking saved people, saved the entire Whole Cake even.

Sanji's cooking and his emotions saved Germa, and in turn Judge deemed that Sanji has earned the Raid Suit that was supposed to be his to begin with, even if Sanji get's to use it as he pleases unlike the rest of his siblings.

Basically Judge reluctantly recognized the value of Sanji's principles, and the rest of the story will only build on that, pushing Sanji in the right, and having him become much stronger than the rest of his family because of the differences between them.
 
#43
My issue with the recent implication is that Sanji needed the Raid Suit and Genetic Awakening to keep up with Zoro


Meaning that he would have been left behind if he wasn't given the suit

Zoro even before Enma had Ashura at least. Sanji on the other hand would be Jack level at the very most with Hell's memories, maybe slightly weaker than Jack but above Snack and Jinbei
 
#44
I've been trying to "hammer" this point on for months at this point, but it seems like Oda can't really grasp the "severity" of the situation with Sanji's character writing, he simply cannot see the bigger picture behind his narrative. Sanji is the only one who has his emotions intact amongst Judge's children, yes, Reiju was kind towards Sanji but her emotions aren't intact, unlike in case of Sanji, and Judge tried to erase his children's emotions because he thought that emotions are weaknesses–and only by erasing them you can become strong. And throughout post-timskip one piece, AND SPICEFICLY POST-TIMSKIP ONE PIECE, where Sanji's Germa plot line has been revealed, Sanji's emotions never played any role in his success, as matter of fact, they were behind Sanji's humiliations and most miserable failures. It was because of Sanji's emotions that Sanji: Lost to Judge, got manipulated and used by his family, attacked his own captain, put his friends in a very dangerous position etc. And now, in the battle against Queen when Sanji has the opportunity to achieve a success thanks to his emotions, thanks to his willpower and the desire to protect his loved ones... HE JUST AWAKENS THE GERMA GENES THANKS TO THE RAID SUIT!!!
:lawsigh::lusalty:

Sanji's plot line has been developed so poorly, that at the and of that plot line, it turns out that Judge was right all along. How could Oda f*ck this up soooooooooooooooooo badly? How? What was he thinking?

How the fu*king hell he failed to see that GIANT hole in his own narrative?
Please, sobody, explain to me how this happened, how could an established author do such a horrendous mistake???
@Queen
@Zoro
@Van
@playa4321
@Celestia
@Grumpy Zoro
@Ice devil slayer
@KiriNigiri
@Veljko2000
@rednose
@Winsmoke Sanji
@Monet
@Veku
@BigChungus2018
@Crooc
@Reborn
@BossYimz
@Robin swan
@gojo
@Fenaker
@PuckTheGreat
@RayanOO
@ShishioIsBack
@Orojackson Refugee
@Greenbeard
@Dragomir
@Sword God Ryuma
@Sentinel
@IceWitch
@Himura
@DarkWitch
@stormylife
@Mr. Anderson
@yunzabit heights
@Monster trio
@Vonal
@Don DaSlayer
@Xione
@Master OF Haki
@Topi Jerami
@Yukihime
@bennbeckman
@Thabeast
@SaintBellkin
@SinOfGreed
@Zenos7
@Lucas
@JioFreed
@pedxi
@Zowo
@Luslec
@style
@Luffy is the mc
@Guymieux
@Mikail
@KINGKONGGUN15
@RyumaZoro
@worst pirate
@ZenZu
@LuffyMazino
@Im_not_Osama_bin_laden
@HAJIKATA
@Jackteo
@Tamerani
@Marimo_420
@Garp the Fist
@Kejon
@Fukki
@Flower
@Sunita
@RZ.119
@Sade
@Skiddo
@KageyamaShoyo
@Den_Den_Mushi
@Elcadar
@Finalbeta
@Bullet
@Dark Hound
@Patryipe
@Light D Lamperouge
@Enma
@Owl Ki
@ZoroIsOverrated
@ShinmenTakezo
@Jack
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Bogard
@Starbound Beast D. Draig
@Shiroyru
@Camie
@ShadyOjiro
@Benn beck
@SethTrollins
@MarimoHeado
@Foxy Bunny
@Bittersteel
@comrade
@Cyrus the Cactus
@OmegaPsyche
@SHIHI
@Zoro D Goat
@critical mindset
@kurwa
@WillOfMyD
@Jo_Ndule
@Reddot4
@Exodia.
@nik87
@Sakura no Hiluluk
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Gambit
@Monkey D Theories
@TheAncientCenturion
@Haoshoku
@Geo
@Yo Tan Wa
@Izaya X
@Gon’s Missing Arm
@Albino 👑
@MasterD
@SmokedOut
@HeroesNZ
@Cinera
@Murilo
@Dark Knight Sanji
@Afroking
@Rosella.Fiamingo
@Chaves
@Rivaille
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@MonsterZoro
@Gol D. Roger
@Soleus
@Aknolagon
@Emperor Nami
@Constantine
@Gensui Sazid
@K!NG HARA$H!MA
@Hanzo hattori
@Buggy D Clown
@silverfire
@yorosenpai
@Tenshi No Konan
@Guan Yu
@Artorias
@Kiwipom
@zorojurou
@MD Zolo
@Brix
@Chrono
@HA001
@Sadistic Senpai
@bblue
@MarineHQ62
@KenshiraSonata
@Erkan12
@Buusatan94
@Celestial D. Dragon
What do you mean Judge was right?
 
#45
My issue with the recent implication is that Sanji needed the Raid Suit and Genetic Awakening to keep up with Zoro


Meaning that he would have been left behind if he wasn't given the suit

Zoro even before Enma had Ashura at least. Sanji on the other hand would be Jack level at the very most with Hell's memories, maybe slightly weaker than Jack but above Snack and Jinbei

Well Sanji and Zoro each attain power through different methods and different stories with different character developments and growth rates.
Not everyone has to grow strong at the same speed or training methods. Hell that would be boring.

Think of it this way too:
Sanji doesn't even use weapons or devil fruits, or even his arms in combat, the same cannot be said for Luffy or Zoro.
 
#46
My issue with the recent implication is that Sanji needed the Raid Suit and Genetic Awakening to keep up with Zoro


Meaning that he would have been left behind if he wasn't given the suit

Zoro even before Enma had Ashura at least. Sanji on the other hand would be Jack level at the very most with Hell's memories, maybe slightly weaker than Jack but above Snack and Jinbei

I have no issue with a person that not only spends less time training and doesn't use weapons or a DF power, but also makes the choice to restrict himself in combat by not using his hands, needing a different avenue of strength to reach Top Tier status by EoS.

Even Zoro with all his training and dedications + 0 restrictions, needed to get Enma as an unique intensive Haki training tool, to boost him fast enough to the required strength level.
 
#47
He has an ability similar to that. It's called Hell's Memories, and is triggered by his emotions when he remembers back to how he spent two years in the Kamabakka Kingdom.

If Oda plays it smart, he'd make it so that Hell's Memories is an ability that Sanji can't sustain for elongated periods of times because of the damage it could potentially do to his body. And by unlocking the Exoskeleton, it would make any kind of drawback from the ability rendered moot, and thus prove that modification while leaving the emotions intact was the way to go all along.
I think that probably is the best way to marry the two going forward.

But it would be more effective if there had been any hints up until now that Hell Memories was something that strained Sanji. As it is, it would be solving a problem that doesn’t actually exist.

We're just seeing a glimpse of the basics of Sanji's upgrades and we have no idea exactly what role his emotions will play into this, beyond the fact that he has used them in the past to amp up his fire power and use techniques like Hell Memories.

So it's very early to make calls and say if or how his emotions will end up interacting with his Germa powers, or if his emotions allow for an entirely different set of abilities than those that come from Germa.
It’s not to early to make the call that I hate Sanji having to rely on Judge’s work, though. That’s my problem with the RS and the exoskeleton, and time won’t change that.
 
#48
because 1 loses because of his emotions doesn't equate to that person being weaker than the other. Judge had to use a bait in order to beat Sanji, that alone shat on Judge's point. Had Judge beaten him properly then Judge's point would hold, but he didn't. All Sanji showed was he's a better human being than Judge. Any human being could be used emotionally to take a L, even when Sanji becomes a top tier he can be emotionally used to take a L, surely you're not gonna claim Judge was right then.

The point that Judge was trying to make, is that he doesn't even need to go all out to defeat Sanji, he can just press on Sanji's emotions and he will give in. And to be honest, Sanji was losing even before that, and later we even saw Judge going against Snuck–who used to be amongst Meme's camanders–and he even took a direct hit from Big Mom.


So I'm pretty sure that Sanji would have lost to him regardless, Judge just wanted to make a point.
Sanji not having any victories =/= Sanji not having experiences that made him grow strong.
What do you mean? Sanji had so many opportunities + the two years long timskip with a trainer to help him.
You're ignoring all the emotional things Sanji went through at WCI
I'm not, I just didn't bring it up because it had no effect on Sanji's growth, again, Sanji's emotions had no effect on his growth.
"But because of Judge", it was either going to be Sanji making his own something or somebody doing it for him. How did Sanji earn that suit? He had to go through emotional trauma from his family, and then after going through that trauma he had to comeback and endure some more, then finishing it off with him taking a dump on the entire belief system of his family, when he ends up saving their dumbasses. His emotions led to him coming to the defense of the people of Wano, where's he's now becoming renowned.
He saved them because his kindness gave him the strength or the opportunity, or maybe because Luffy came to save Sanji? Without Luffy Sanji's kindness would have killed him alongside his family lol. Sanji never challenged their believe system, Judge's last words to Luffy and Sanji is the proof of it, also they gave him the raid suit to hurt his fillings and humiliat him even more.
Realistically, Sanji & training can only go so far when it comes to a character who can only use legs. All top tiers & YCS/VAs use every single body part in body. If we're realistically expecting Sanji to be a top tier with only using legs then that's simply naivety on our part. He was either gonna have to get something made for him or make it himself. The suit only continues his storyline of emotions, can he emotionally accept the gift from his family and accept them again after they caused him such trauma or no? If he accepts it, then he emotionally grows, if he doesn't, then he stays the way he is. Either way emotions play a crucial role in his power up.
Realistically, seriously? We're talking about a fictional story where a guy uses three swords in his battles while holding the third one in his mouth; a story where people gain abilities from fruits and have invisible power called haki. Do you really think it was impossible to come with something else other than Gemra genes and the raid suit? Really???
I fail to see how this is a problem, since even if he starts using the raid suit, he's still gonna have to actually train after that to get stronger and what have you.
He's going to benefit from the GENES and the raid suit modification, there's no turning back.
Post automatically merged:

Not sure what you mean it was never challenged. There was an entire story of Judge vs Zeff going on with Sanji, in which the conclusion was Zeff's teachings were correct and right. The entire thing with Judge ended in Sanji handing a big fat L, especially with this panel. Where he essentially tells the mf, thanks to Zeff's teachings, the mf is still alive. Sanji's kindness which was fostered further by Zeff, saved the Germa 66. Not sure how much of a bigger L you want Sanji to hand them man.

Sanji showed Juadg the kindness that Judge had already seen in the past when kid sanji was fiddling the mouse, or making food for his mother. Judge knew about Sanji's kindness long ago. The only to change Judge's believes and prove the audience that emotions=strength is by obtaining strength because and via that kindness.
 
Last edited:
#50
As in his emotions were taken leverage off? .. yea sure because that just proves the whole point of his humanity.. would you expect Luffy and zoro to cut or blitz through the human shield with not 1 dreg of sympathy.. its not sanji's fault that judge didn't give him a fair fight.. rather than blaming sanji for halting his attacks for the benefit of others blame Judge for his ruthlessness.
As in his emotions were taken leverage off? .. yea sure because that just proves the whole point of his humanity.. would you expect Luffy and zoro to cut or blitz through the human shield with not 1 dreg of sympathy.. its not sanji's fault that judge didn't give him a fair fight.. rather than blaming sanji for halting his attacks for the benefit of others blame Judge for his ruthlessness.

A failure due to emotion in such cases is the biggest success a human can achieve.. he may have been gotten the benefit out of but not his mistake for being hesitant on slaying men..

humility and integrity is also a type of success

Zoro and Luffy not fighting Bellamy for spewing BS about Luffy's dream andgot beat up wasn't a loss to them.. but a big win in mentality and ideology.. a fight not worth fighting..

success isn't always contingent upon what you do to achieve something .. sometimes its something invaluable that you preserve at the cost of something trivial in comparison


as for literal success.. the next chap DJ go brrrrr
Judge was trying to prove that Sanji can't save that dude with his kindness, that he even doesn't need to use his full strength to defeat him because Sanji isn't strong enough to save that guy or emotionless to not be bothered by it. If Sanji's CoO was strong enough, or of he was fast enough then he could have prevented Judge from kill that dude. Sanji's emotions didn't help him to become strong enough in timskip or throughout post-timskip. And I'm pretty sure that Oda would never humiliate Zoro or Luffy like that because that dude loves them more than his children.
Post automatically merged:

What do you mean Judge was right?
I'm talking about Oda's failure in the narrative.
 
#53
Well emotions can be positive and negative depending on situation. Anger can trigger adrenaline rushes as well as other emotions but can also alter one's balance and lucidity. Staying calm is usually the best choice but it truly depends on case by case basis.
 
#55
I've been trying to "hammer" this point on for months at this point, but it seems like Oda can't really grasp the "severity" of the situation with Sanji's character writing, he simply cannot see the bigger picture behind his narrative. Sanji is the only one who has his emotions intact amongst Judge's children, yes, Reiju was kind towards Sanji but her emotions aren't intact, unlike in case of Sanji, and Judge tried to erase his children's emotions because he thought that emotions are weaknesses–and only by erasing them you can become strong. And throughout post-timskip one piece, AND SPICEFICLY POST-TIMSKIP ONE PIECE, where Sanji's Germa plot line has been revealed, Sanji's emotions never played any role in his success, as matter of fact, they were behind Sanji's humiliations and most miserable failures. It was because of Sanji's emotions that Sanji: Lost to Judge, got manipulated and used by his family, attacked his own captain, put his friends in a very dangerous position etc. And now, in the battle against Queen when Sanji has the opportunity to achieve a success thanks to his emotions, thanks to his willpower and the desire to protect his loved ones... HE JUST AWAKENS THE GERMA GENES THANKS TO THE RAID SUIT!!!
:lawsigh::lusalty:

Sanji's plot line has been developed so poorly, that at the and of that plot line, it turns out that Judge was right all along. How could Oda f*ck this up soooooooooooooooooo badly? How? What was he thinking?

How the fu*king hell he failed to see that GIANT hole in his own narrative?
Please, sobody, explain to me how this happened, how could an established author do such a horrendous mistake???
@Queen
@Zoro
@Van
@playa4321
@Celestia
@Grumpy Zoro
@Ice devil slayer
@KiriNigiri
@Veljko2000
@rednose
@Winsmoke Sanji
@Monet
@Veku
@BigChungus2018
@Crooc
@Reborn
@BossYimz
@Robin swan
@gojo
@Fenaker
@PuckTheGreat
@RayanOO
@ShishioIsBack
@Orojackson Refugee
@Greenbeard
@Dragomir
@Sword God Ryuma
@Sentinel
@IceWitch
@Himura
@DarkWitch
@stormylife
@Mr. Anderson
@yunzabit heights
@Monster trio
@Vonal
@Don DaSlayer
@Xione
@Master OF Haki
@Topi Jerami
@Yukihime
@bennbeckman
@Thabeast
@SaintBellkin
@SinOfGreed
@Zenos7
@Lucas
@JioFreed
@pedxi
@Zowo
@Luslec
@style
@Luffy is the mc
@Guymieux
@Mikail
@KINGKONGGUN15
@RyumaZoro
@worst pirate
@ZenZu
@LuffyMazino
@Im_not_Osama_bin_laden
@HAJIKATA
@Jackteo
@Tamerani
@Marimo_420
@Garp the Fist
@Kejon
@Fukki
@Flower
@Sunita
@RZ.119
@Sade
@Skiddo
@KageyamaShoyo
@Den_Den_Mushi
@Elcadar
@Finalbeta
@Bullet
@Dark Hound
@Patryipe
@Light D Lamperouge
@Enma
@Owl Ki
@ZoroIsOverrated
@ShinmenTakezo
@Jack
@Admiral Lee Hung
@Bogard
@Starbound Beast D. Draig
@Shiroyru
@Camie
@ShadyOjiro
@Benn beck
@SethTrollins
@MarimoHeado
@Foxy Bunny
@Bittersteel
@comrade
@Cyrus the Cactus
@OmegaPsyche
@SHIHI
@Zoro D Goat
@critical mindset
@kurwa
@WillOfMyD
@Jo_Ndule
@Reddot4
@Exodia.
@nik87
@Sakura no Hiluluk
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki
@Gambit
@Monkey D Theories
@TheAncientCenturion
@Haoshoku
@Geo
@Yo Tan Wa
@Izaya X
@Gon’s Missing Arm
@Albino 👑
@MasterD
@SmokedOut
@HeroesNZ
@Cinera
@Murilo
@Dark Knight Sanji
@Afroking
@Rosella.Fiamingo
@Chaves
@Rivaille
@Nidai_Kitetsu
@MonsterZoro
@Gol D. Roger
@Soleus
@Aknolagon
@Emperor Nami
@Constantine
@Gensui Sazid
@K!NG HARA$H!MA
@Hanzo hattori
@Buggy D Clown
@silverfire
@yorosenpai
@Tenshi No Konan
@Guan Yu
@Artorias
@Kiwipom
@zorojurou
@MD Zolo
@Brix
@Chrono
@HA001
@Sadistic Senpai
@bblue
@MarineHQ62
@KenshiraSonata
@Erkan12
@Buusatan94
@Celestial D. Dragon
Does life grants you all what you want and desire?
 
#56
That's true, but Sanji had no victories in post-timskip, it was done by Oda spiceficly to show that he can't do anything by himself, he needs the Germa genes and the raid suit, that was the biggest mistake.
Post automatically merged:

Does life grants you all what you want and desire?
No, but you can bend the circomstances under your will if you have the guts to challenge your life, not everybody does, that's why the world is made out of losers and winners.
 
#57
He would be right if Sanji was losing to Queen and then the powerup would mean he needed it for win this fight.
Like I posted the evidence in my thread, Sanji was fightning on par with Queen. The powerup has the purpose to shorten the duration of this fight, shorten, not changing the outcome.

But, from this point onwards, Judge might be right if Sanji will start to depend on his new body and for example adjusting/changing his fightning style based on it (not using for example his speed, agility and CoO and instead starting to be a Kaido 2.0).

Anyway, we still need to see what will happen exactly with this and then judge. And moreover, this chapter is further evidence for DJ to not be part of the Germa's modifications since he only awakened now this new body because he used the RS, but DJ is there since Enies Lobby and it depends on his "passion" aka emotions, so he will keep improving it that way.
 
#58
Storytelling should humanize us and not the other way around.
lol no.
storytelling can do w/e. in this its sticking to the truth.
genes matter and emotions hold a warrior back.

you want Sanji to be strong because of his emotions.
in reality hes strong DESPITE his emotions.

not fond of the development.
it is what it is.
 
#59
That's true, but Sanji had no victories in post-timskip, it was done by Oda spiceficly to show that he can't do anything by himself, he needs the Germa genes and the raid suit, that was the biggest mistake.
Or Oda doesn't measure the value of his characters based solely on the victories they achieve through fighting, like the fandom does. 400+ chapters into the New World, with proper fights being just a drop in the bucket throughout all this, pretty much tells us all we need to know.
 
#60
Judge was trying to prove that Sanji can't save that dude with his kindness, that he even doesn't need to use his full strength to defeat him because Sanji isn't strong enough to save that guy or emotionless to not be bothered by it.
how the hell is sanji supposed to know that just when he's about to attack judge.. judge will set up a wall of humans and pierce then in order to land a hit on...

it not sanji's incompetence it just judge being cheap.

are you proving judges point that being an emotionless soldier is better for the reason you don't give mind to what you're attacks or even having a dreg of regret of what you're doing?

you can't always save everyone even Luffy says that what you can do is be less of a scum then your opposition.

If Sanji's CoO was strong enough, or of he was fast enough then he could have prevented Judge from kill that dude. Sanji's emotions didn't help him to become strong enough in timskip or throughout post-timskip. And I'm pretty sure that Oda would never humiliate Zoro or Luffy like that because that dude loves them more than his children.
if he didn't forsee judge pulling a grotesque move like that and use his human shield to catch sanji off guard.. how the hell is he supoosed to know what BS judge is up to.? and how tf do you know Luffy and zoro would be able to avoid their deaths if Luffy didn't use FS... plus this is unrelated to emotions not everyone has FS.. zoro won't be able to do shit about the soldiers as he gets caught off guard by judge piercing his way through them and attacking zoro

so your point is oda makes sanji fail and make his emotions futile (which doesn't make sense idk what you're saying) just coz he hates him or likes zoro Luffy more... thats plain bs what are you even saying

Sanji saved tashigi coz of his CoO trigger (it was kinda an emotional trigger of urgency) sensing her tears dropping.
he sensed Neko outside beige and threw his crew away as he was about to venture to WCI..

you are only exclusively targeting sanji with emotions.. why not Luffy and zoro.. how has emotions helped them except for the drive to excel which sanji hadn't any different

you are equating emotions with irrelevant things like "not being good enough" (which depends on one's skill and you don't need emotions to hone them and sanji has been honing them without unnecessary emotion) other than the drive to support Luffy, or even equating it to inevitable things that one can't predict and calling out sanji for it..

Emotions don't really help in combat at all i don't see how emotions made zoro and Luffy better at what they are... it was their "resolve"... emotions are just humane way expressing how one feels..

matter the fact DJ is also intensified with a certain type of emotion and that is Anger.. not emotions itself..

having emotion makes you human not physically strong i don't get what you mean again


when you say Emotions haven't made sanji stronger.. what do you really mean.. physically? you just need the drive to develop physically not anger and sadness.

and you don't develop using emotions.. that just means anything that'd require focus in honing can't be honed

what are you even saying mate?
 
Last edited:
Top