Chapter Discussion So, to everyone who said Nika was a giant retcon... explain the last chapter

[BlackLegFring]

Honestly, there doesn't need to be excuses on this end. The excuses are on the end of the World Government should have done something, when they haven't done so in over 800 years. They don't make a big deal over the fruit. They don't talk as if they've killed hundreds for the sake of the fruit not awakening. They aren't even making it a big deal now that it is awakened. They didn't immediately take action when Luffy was confirmed to be on Egghead, despite there being a way for them to have gotten there. They sat back, and did nothing, because they don't view as big of a threat as you guys think they do. These guys are about to wipe the Earth clean, and they are still more concerned over information about the void century being leaked, than they are about Nika, who could potentially stop them, which tells us they aren't worried about Luffy at all.

The previous guy who awakened the Gomu Gomu no Mi, lost to the World Government. Why should they care if someone else manages to? There are tons of other fruits out there that are just as powerful, if not more so than the Nika fruit. Hell. Blackbeard has two of them. They didn't run and try and snuff him out the second he got the Gura on top of the Yami, even though they obviously could have.

They simply don't care, because they don't feel threatened in the slightest. They are actually strong and sit at the Apex of the World, and there is still someone out there who is even stronger than they are that sits above them. The fandom is the one making this out to be a bigger deal than it actually is, within the confines of the story, because we know what's coming, they don't. It's easy to argue from the perspective of the reader who knows what the inevitable is. But narrative's don't operate from a readers perspective.

You know you are just pointing out problems with the retcon, right?
The fruit was the only one whose name was special enough for them to change. They didn’t do that for the likes of the Gura fruit that can sink islands. They self-admittedly have been hunting it for 800 years which is obviously a pretty big deal. They sided with a Yonko alliance (that was seeking to plunge the world into war) over the fruit.
You can’t simultaneously present it as a such a big deal yet have their actions not match the presentation.

Their stupidity in still not doing anything just makes it even worse. All the pieces are already lining up: Nico Robin is by his side and only 1 Poneglyph remains, pirates reached the final island for first time in 800 years and one of them has mentored this new Joyboy, one of them was the one that brought the fruit to him, Poseidon has been reborn, Wanokuni is under Joyboy’s protection, his father & brother lead the Revolutionary Army that has declared war on the Celestials themselves, and they’ve also discovered that someone sits on the Empty Throne…
If the alarm bells haven’t deafened their ears by this point then they don’t have a brain between the lot of them.

You don’t have to have a reader’s perspective to see what’s coming. Even citizens of the OP world feel it all coming to a head, and some are even speaking of the dawn approaching.
The previous Joyboy losing doesn’t mean that the results can’t change the next time around, so why even give it a chance in the first place? That’s beyond stupid.

 

[Uncle Van]

Retcon or not, Nika fruit is still one of the most poorly executed plot points and contrivance in the series. It's a huge plot hole.

The Gorosei themselves were talking about Luffy defeating Crocodile and did nothing about it. Nothing was done about Nika being in Water 7. They knew Luffy was headed for Moriah and sent a lone Kuma. They knew Nika punched a CD in Sabody and did nothing. They knew Nika was in MF and gave no new orders and instead, wanted Moriah to disappear. They knew Nika came back and was heading for Fishman Island. They knew Nika made an alliance with Law and was in Dressrosa, and did nothing despite CP0(including Bowler hat dude) being there. It wasn't until Wano that they FINALLY started the "Nika/Luffy must die!" and ordered CP0 bowler hat to sabotage his fight with Kaido.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

You know you are just pointing out problems with the retcon, right?
The fruit was the only one whose name was special enough for them to change. They didn’t do that for the likes of the Gura fruit that can sink islands. They self-admittedly have been hunting it for 800 years which is obviously a pretty big deal. They sided with a Yonko alliance (that was seeking to plunge the world into war) over the fruit.
You can’t simultaneously present it as a such a big deal yet have their actions not match the presentation.

Their stupidity in still not doing anything just makes it even worse. All the pieces are already lining up: Nico Robin is by his side and only 1 Poneglyph remains, pirates reached the final island for first time in 800 years and one of them has mentored this new Joyboy, one of them was the one that brought the fruit to him, Poseidon has been reborn, Wanokuni is under Joyboy’s protection, his father & brother lead the Revolutionary Army that has declared war on the Celestials themselves, and they’ve also discovered that someone sits on the Empty Throne…
If the alarm bells haven’t deafened their ears by this point then they don’t have a brain between the lot of them.

You don’t have to have a reader’s perspective to see what’s coming. Even citizens of the OP world feel it all coming to a head, and some are even speaking of the dawn approaching.
The previous Joyboy losing doesn’t mean that the results can change the next time around, so why even give it a chance in the first place? That’s beyond stupid.

In the One Piece World those are just hypotheticals. They mean nothing. We can clearly see this arc that they are not worried about the Nika fruit in the slightest. They made zero move to go after him, despite having the means to do so. They only took action because of information of the Void Century was going to be released. It's right there in our faces, plain as day. They simply don't care. They are not worried. You want them to be, but they aren't. And your arguments are solely based on a reasoning that doesn't exist. If they actually cared and were worried about the Nika fruit, and making a huge deal over it, then it wouldn't make sense that they did nothing to go after Luffy. But that's not what is being portrayed. Even now, with Nika standing within their grasp, they are more worried about stopping a broadcast than "killing the potential chosen one who will bring about their downfall." You'd think that if they truly believed that Luffy had the potential to bring down the World Government, they'd prioritize that over going after a broadcast. When they plan on cleansing the World regardless, what's it matter if the people of the World find out about the void century?

 

[CoC: Color of Clowns]

Retcon or not, Nika fruit is still one of the most poorly executed plot points and contrivance in the series. It's a huge plot hole.

The Gorosei themselves were talking about Luffy defeating Crocodile and did nothing about it. Nothing was done about Nika being in Water 7. They knew Luffy was headed for Moriah and sent a lone Kuma. They knew Nika punched a CD in Sabody and did nothing. They knew Nika was in MF and gave no new orders and instead, wanted Moriah to disappear. They knew Nika came back and was heading for Fishman Island. They knew Nika made an alliance with Law and was in Dressrosa, and did nothing despite CP0(including Bowler hat dude) being there. It wasn't until Wano that they FINALLY started the "Nika/Luffy must die!" and ordered CP0 bowler hat to sabotage his fight with Kaido.

What if I told you

That Shanks can also use summoning circles and the Gorosei know this

The size of the plot hole is directly related to Shanks' power level. If Shanks' crew can beat the Gorosei, and Shanks can just... teleport, all Shanks had to do was keep tabs on Luffy and

Holy fucking-

Is Shanks a fucking Youkai???

 

[TheLastBerserker]

Yeah, just fire the Admiral.

They'd never join a pirate crew, and beat up Garp, or anything. Nope.

he did that without getting fired lmao

 

[Fn Lucci]

Retcon or not, Nika fruit is still one of the most poorly executed plot points and contrivance in the series. It's a huge plot hole.

The Gorosei themselves were talking about Luffy defeating Crocodile and did nothing about it. Nothing was done about Nika being in Water 7. They knew Luffy was headed for Moriah and sent a lone Kuma. They knew Nika punched a CD in Sabody and did nothing. They knew Nika was in MF and gave no new orders and instead, wanted Moriah to disappear. They knew Nika came back and was heading for Fishman Island. They knew Nika made an alliance with Law and was in Dressrosa, and did nothing despite CP0(including Bowler hat dude) being there. It wasn't until Wano that they FINALLY started the "Nika/Luffy must die!" and ordered CP0 bowler hat to sabotage his fight with Kaido.

In fairness Sabaody would have been a definitive end had it not been for Ray and Kuma coming out of nowhere.

But everything else is crazy. The guy took a picture with Rayleigh so that there was absolutely no doubt he was spending time with Roger's former right hand across those two years. The alliance with Law should have been a serious problem and they knew things could possibly go south in Dressrosa so they... sent a kind-hearted rookie admiral. Green Bull we know would want to exterminate and Lucci is strong enough to wreck Sentomaru in one hit, but nope

 

[TheLastBerserker]

In fairness Sabaody would have been a definitive end had it not been for Ray and Kuma coming out of nowhere.

But everything else is crazy. The guy took a picture with Rayleigh so that there was absolutely no doubt he was spending time with Roger's former right hand across those two years. The alliance with Law should have been a serious problem and they knew things could possibly go south in Dressrosa so they... sent a kind-hearted rookie admiral. Green Bull we know would want to exterminate and Lucci is strong enough to wreck Sentomaru in one hit, but nope

Kind hearted rookie admiral is crazy, Fuji is one of the biggest snakes in the marines from Akainus view. I still don't understand why he was put over the admiral candidates who would have been more loyal and actually followed orders

 

[Fn Lucci]

Kind hearted rookie admiral is crazy, Fuji is one of the biggest snakes in the marines from Akainus view. I still don't understand why he was put over the admiral candidates who would have been more loyal and actually followed orders

Kind hearted is still accurate. Akainu isn't Bizarro, he understands the thought process... just vehemently disagrees with acting on altruism and emotional impulse. He almost fucked Koby over it, and then they proceeded to install an old blind Koby

Agreed in that ultimately the power of individuals who aren't loyal bites them in the ass at virtually every turn. Replace Aokiji with basically the same kind of guy but with even less sense of duty. Replace Blackbeard with a guy who probably comes closest in personal traits than anyone else alive.

 

[Jailer]

I don't think it's a retcon necessary but there are other reasond to dislike it

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

In the One Piece World those are just hypotheticals. They mean nothing. We can clearly see this arc that they are not worried about the Nika fruit in the slightest. They made zero move to go after him, despite having the means to do so. They only took action because of information of the Void Century was going to be released. It's right there in our faces, plain as day. They simply don't care. They are not worried. You want them to be, but they aren't. And your arguments are solely based on a reasoning that doesn't exist. If they actually cared and were worried about the Nika fruit, and making a huge deal over it, then it wouldn't make sense that they did nothing to go after Luffy. But that's not what is being portrayed. Even now, with Nika standing within their grasp, they are more worried about stopping a broadcast than "killing the potential chosen one who will bring about their downfall." You'd think that if they truly believed that Luffy had the potential to bring down the World Government, they'd prioritize that over going after a broadcast. When they plan on cleansing the World regardless, what's it matter if the people of the World find out about the void century?

....are you like, okay? Maybe need a cup of tea or some Adderall?

Think about it a little, idk. What's more important RIGHT NOW, fighting a guy who already made it clear he doesn't even know what he is or what fruit he's really using, who has the potential to bring down the WG later, or the broadcast that is absolutely guaranteed ruining the world government's reputation and influence right now live on video? They have their priorities straight. They were fighting Luffy and accomplishing other objectives, but now that they have a countdown, they need to prevent that information from getting out right this minute. It is obviously the most important thing right now.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

Kind hearted rookie admiral is crazy, Fuji is one of the biggest snakes in the marines from Akainus view. I still don't understand why he was put over the admiral candidates who would have been more loyal and actually followed orders

He's powerful. Him and Ryokugyu were hired in the World Military Draft, they weren't promoted internally as candidates. They just found some really strong guys, immediately put them in Admiral uniforms skipping the line, and started ordering them around. Admirals are still meant to be disposable. The entire marine infrastructure is subordinate to the world government

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

....are you like, okay? Maybe need a cup of tea or some Adderall?

Think about it a little, idk. What's more important RIGHT NOW, fighting a guy who already made it clear he doesn't even know what he is or what fruit he's really using, who has the potential to bring down the WG later, or the broadcast that is absolutely guaranteed ruining the world government's reputation and influence right now live on video? They have their priorities straight. They were fighting Luffy and accomplishing other objectives, but now that they have a countdown, they need to prevent that information from getting out right this minute. It is obviously the most important thing right now.

Post automatically merged: May 11, 2024

He's powerful. Him and Ryokugyu were hired in the World Military Draft, they weren't promoted internally as candidates. They just found some really strong guys, immediately put them in Admiral uniforms skipping the line, and started ordering them around. Admirals are still meant to be disposable. The entire marine infrastructure is subordinate to the world government

Not sure why you are quoting me with that. I used that example to explain my point that the Gorosei do not view the Nika fruit as a top priority threat for the people complaining it makes no sense why they haven't been trying to kill Luffy since BoS.

 

[BlackLegFring]

In the One Piece World those are just hypotheticals. They mean nothing. We can clearly see this arc that they are not worried about the Nika fruit in the slightest. They made zero move to go after him, despite having the means to do so. They only took action because of information of the Void Century was going to be released. It's right there in our faces, plain as day. They simply don't care. They are not worried. You want them to be, but they aren't. And your arguments are solely based on a reasoning that doesn't exist. If they actually cared and were worried about the Nika fruit, and making a huge deal over it, then it wouldn't make sense that they did nothing to go after Luffy. But that's not what is being portrayed. Even now, with Nika standing within their grasp, they are more worried about stopping a broadcast than "killing the potential chosen one who will bring about their downfall." You'd think that if they truly believed that Luffy had the potential to bring down the World Government, they'd prioritize that over going after a broadcast. When they plan on cleansing the World regardless, what's it matter if the people of the World find out about the void century?

The future is always hypotheticals. That’s the entire point. Doesn’t mean that they can’t be taken seriously.

And again, the fact that they aren’t seriously going after Luffy only makes it worse. It makes statements like them hunting it down for 800 years or the WG changing the name of the fruit just seem empty.
They killed babies just on the possibility of them being fathered by Roger. Where’s the dismissal of hypotheticals there? And Roger was just a 25 year old problem. How much more seriously should they have taken an 800 year one? They didn’t wait around to see what any of those babies would become.

Your excuses could only work in a world where we haven’t already seen the extents they would go to for lesser problems.

Also, saying “they don’t care” when they know the WG considered it such a threat to go so far as to change its name and start a centuries-long hunt for it just makes them idiots.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

The future is always hypotheticals. That’s the entire point. Doesn’t mean that they can’t be taken seriously.

And again, the fact that they aren’t seriously going after Luffy only makes it worse. It makes statements like them hunting it down for 800 years or the WG changing the name of the fruit just seem empty.
They killed babies just on the possibility of them being fathered by Roger. Where’s the dismissal of hypotheticals there? And Roger was just a 25 year old problem. How much more seriously should they have taken an 800 year one? They didn’t wait around to see what any of those babies would become.

Your excuses could only work in a world where we haven’t already seen the extents they would go to for lesser problems.

Also, saying “they don’t care” when they know the WG considered it such a threat to go so far as to change its name and start a centuries-long hunt for it just makes them idiots.

They go after these things, when the opportunity presents itself. They do not go out of their way to deal with these issues. There is a difference.

Just like when they sacrificed a member of CP-0 on Wano to try and kill Luffy. They had the opportunity, they tried, and it failed. After that they were more concerned with the fact that they pissed off Kaido with no payoff.

Same thing with what is going on with Egghead. They initially didn't take action when Saturn arrived on Egghead, but now that they were forced to take action because of Vegapunk's broadcast, and they are on Egghead, Warcury is trying to actively go after Luffy. The opportunity has presented itself, and they are taking it.

It like you think these guys have nothing better to do, or no immediate pressing matters that they should be dedicating their full resources to going after the Gomu Gomu no Mi 24/7 for the last 800 years. We know they have been attempting it, but as they themselves have already said, no matter how much they try, the fruit has eluded them for almost a millennium.

They have an entire planet they have to oversee. The World doesn't stop so they can play hide and seek with a single devil fruit user for 800 years.

 

[KingOnizam]

Kind hearted rookie admiral is crazy, Fuji is one of the biggest snakes in the marines from Akainus view. I still don't understand why he was put over the admiral candidates who would have been more loyal and actually followed orders

All of the admiral candidates were so weak they would rather draft literal civilians as navy admirals over those guys.

 

[SakazOuki]

Kind hearted rookie admiral is crazy, Fuji is one of the biggest snakes in the marines from Akainus view. I still don't understand why he was put over the admiral candidates who would have been more loyal and actually followed orders

Akainu and Fujitora are still friends regardless of their disputes

 

[BlackLegFring]

They go after these things, when the opportunity presents itself. They do not go out of their way to deal with these issues. There is a difference.

Just like when they sacrificed a member of CP-0 on Wano to try and kill Luffy. They had the opportunity, they tried, and it failed. After that they were more concerned with the fact that they pissed off Kaido with no payoff.

Same thing with what is going on with Egghead. They initially didn't take action when Saturn arrived on Egghead, but now that they were forced to take action because of Vegapunk's broadcast, and they are on Egghead, Warcury is trying to actively go after Luffy. The opportunity has presented itself, and they are taking it.

It like you think these guys have nothing better to do, or no immediate pressing matters that they should be dedicating their full resources to going after the Gomu Gomu no Mi 24/7 for the last 800 years. We know they have been attempting it, but as they themselves have already said, no matter how much they try, the fruit has eluded them for almost a millennium.

They have an entire planet they have to oversee. The World doesn't stop so they can play hide and seek with a single devil fruit user for 800 years.

They didn’t wait for Roger’s possible offspring to walk over to them. They snuffed them in their cribs around the world…and for several months running too!

Them waiting for the last minute already makes them morons. It just emphasizes the point of how they let a threat they considered greater than both Kaido & Big Mom allied get to that point in the first place.
Again, “see! At least they tried at the very last minute” is not much of the reasonable defense you think it is.
The “let’s not take out the nascent cancer cell but wait until it’s almost fully spread across the body” approach is rightfully derided as moronic.

The strawmen arguments don’t work. All it would take is a couple of CP0 agents and the problem is solved. Aokiji nearly did it by accident, and it’s something his peer Akainu would do for free.
Egghead is already too late to be having the discussion. The topic was never Vegapunk’s broadcast but the Nika fruit that should have been taken care of long before this point.

At the end of the day, it’s you defenders of the retcon that are acting like it would be the most terrible ordeal in the world for them do have dealt with Nika…instead of a 1 min order to any number of individuals under their command.

 

[DonnyJones124]

Didn't Oda have an interview on how he didn't know how they were going to beat Kaido? If Oda had knowledge on Luffy's fruit at the time of that interview, why wouldn't he have known? Shouldn't it have been obvious how he was going to beat Kaido?

The fruit itself is the retcon. Luffy's symbolism with the sun, and being the reincarnation of some "deity" is generic Shounen nonsense that was probably planned from early. But the Gomu Gomu fruit being the human human fruit of the mythical model of a deity that wasn't introduced until 20 chapters before the reveal is the biggest retcon of the entire series. This is why Oda didn't know how Luffy was going to beat Kaido, because that's not what his fruit was until Wano.

I know you guys call him Goda, but he's not literally God. He's a flawed human being who makes mistakes, and doesn't always know where to take his story.

 

[Celestial D. Dragon]

They didn’t wait for Roger’s possible offspring to walk over to them. They snuffed them in their cribs around the world…and for several months running too!

Them waiting for the last minute already makes them morons. It just emphasizes the point of how they let a threat they considered greater than both Kaido & Big Mom allied get to that point in the first place.
Again, “see! At least they tried at the very last minute” is not much of the reasonable defense you think it is.
The “let’s not take out the nascent cancer cell but wait until it’s almost fully spread across the body” approach is rightfully derided as moronic.

The strawmen arguments don’t work. All it would take is a couple of CP0 agents and the problem is solved. Aokiji nearly did it by accident, and it’s something his peer Akainu would do for free.
Egghead is already too late to be having the discussion. The topic was never Vegapunk’s broadcast but the Nika fruit that should have been taken care of long before this point.

At the end of the day, it’s you defenders of the retcon that are acting like it would be the most terrible ordeal in the world for them do have dealt with Nika…instead of a 1 min order to any number of individuals under their command.

Me: "The World Government hasn't been able to get their hands on the Gomu Gomu no Mi in 800 years. They've tried and failed... For 800 years..."

You: "So why don't they... You know... Just get their hands on it? Couple CP-0 agents, bada bing, bada boom, problem solved..."

Yeah, it is that easy, when the story moves the way YOU want it to move, but it's not your story to tell. Even if Oda wrote these scenarios into the story.... Guess what.... The World Government STILL would have failed, because Oda would have wrote it as such. But if the whole purpose is to keep it a secret until the author is ready to reveal it, then obviously they are not going to write scenarios into the story that would give it away.

There is a mountain of reasons as to why the Gorosei never bothered going after Gomu Gomu no Mi while Luffy had it. The only counterargument you have is that since them going after the fruit is a plausible scenario, then since Oda never showed it, then it must be a retcon. And you want to talk about Strawmanning when your only counterargument is "since they could have, Oda should have drawn it." No, he doesn't have to draw it. And not drawing it, is not proof of it being a retcon.

 

[TheLastBerserker]

Akainu and Fujitora are still friends regardless of their disputes

Friends is one thing Fuji actively sabotages him

 

[BlackLegFring]

Me: "The World Government hasn't been able to get their hands on the Gomu Gomu no Mi in 800 years. They've tried and failed... For 800 years..."

You: "So why don't they... You know... Just get their hands on it? Couple CP-0 agents, bada bing, bada boom, problem solved..."

Yeah, it is that easy, when the story moves the way YOU want it to move, but it's not your story to tell. Even if Oda wrote these scenarios into the story.... Guess what.... The World Government STILL would have failed, because Oda would have wrote it as such. But if the whole purpose is to keep it a secret until the author is ready to reveal it, then obviously they are not going to write scenarios into the story that would give it away.

There is a mountain of reasons as to why the Gorosei never bothered going after Gomu Gomu no Mi while Luffy had it. The only counterargument you have is that since them going after the fruit is a plausible scenario, then since Oda never showed it, then it must be a retcon. And you want to talk about Strawmanning when your only counterargument is "since they could have, Oda should have drawn it." No, he doesn't have to draw it. And not drawing it, is not proof of it being a retcon.

LMAO! Care to explain why a couple of CP0 agents wouldn’t be able to capture Luffy?
If you switch Aokiji with Guernica and his boys on LRL island, how is that not mission accomplished?
Even the weaker CP9 could have ended Luffy at Water 7.

You keep on bringing up points that only emphasize why the retcon doesn’t work. “They’ve tried and failed for 800 years” is just an empty plot statement to cover for the retcon if you can’t provide the measures they supposedly took that didn’t work. That only stresses the point too because each subsequent failure should only make them try all the harder the next time because this fruit with a mind is obviously planning something downright diabolical if it refuses to be captured that badly!!! “Let it do what it wants” is not the solution to something with such a long-suffering outlook.

Of course it’s not my story, I’d never settle for such a lazy retcon. That’s besides the point and that doesn’t help your defense either. If anything, it just highlights the reliance of authors on poor writing tools like retcons when they’ve got themselves in a corner.
Saying “the author made the WG fail even if it makes no sense logically for the sake of what he wanted” is not a flex. It’s all but an admittance that you understand the problem but want to go to bat for Oda regardless.

If you need to write illogical things to try and place such a secret in a story, then you’re better off abandoning it and writing something better in the first place.