Current Events Some Thoughts on a Potential Confrontation Between Zoro and King

Expectations for Zoro vs King


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Cinera

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#1
Disclaimer
This was written during my hiatus in a PM with @ZenZu, as such it may be a bit dated. I added some new information, but keep that in mind.

I'm only posting it now because people have been complaining that I'm not posting about Zoro.

As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
It doesn't invalidate anything though, it just means King (and the other top commanders) were always that strong.​
I don't think that Zoro fighting King (if it indeed happens) would mean that Zoro is a high tier or comparable to YC 1s. For one, we don't actually know how strong King is. Oda could make him anywhere from comparable to Queen to significantly stronger than Marco.


Possibilities for a Zoro vs King Fight
There are a few main ways I think Zoro vs King can go:
  1. Zoro stomps him
    • Think Zoro vs Captain T-Bone or Zoro vs Hyouzou.
  2. King is challenging because Zoro is very injured
    • Think Zoro vs Hatchan
  3. Zoro uses King as a training dummy for his Advanced COC
    • Think Luffy's battles in Udon
  4. King is a match for a recovered Zoro and gives him a difficult and beautiful swordsman fight
    • Think Zoro vs Ryuma
  5. King is above a recovered Zoro and forces Zoro to surpass himself and or power up to beat him
    • Think Zoro vs Kaku
      • E.g. Zoro finally masters imbuing COC into his attacks and that's what lets him beat King
      • Zoro has to use Asura to beat King
    • Zoro vs Daz Bones is another example, but inapplicable here after Zoro cut Kaido.
      • Zoro also already knows how to cut fire.
If any of the first three options play out, then Zoro is indeed much stronger than Yonkou 1st Commanders (and by extension all high tiers).


Relative Standing of Zoro and King
The issue is if Oda wants #4 or #5 to happen. If Oda intends for King to give Zoro a solid high difficulty fight or for Zoro to surpass King, then Oda has a problem; right now, Zoro appears to be considerably stronger than King. Zoro wouldn't be the underdog in this fight, but rather King would be.

In #4/#5 style fights, Zoro's opponents always look very formidable if not outright superior to Zoro:
  • Against Daz Bones, Daz looked stronger at the beginning, with Zoro unable to cut steel.
  • Against Kaku, Kaku looked stronger with CP 9 having already stomped the Strawhats in Water 7.
  • Against Ryuma, Ryuma looked like a formidable opponent having negged and troll diffed Brook.
    • He was also the Zombie of a legendary swordsman.

Contrast King:
  • He's taking damage from Marco in a 2 vs 1
  • He has no independently superior portrayal to Queen
Vs Zoro:
  • His Hiryuu Kaen terrified the Yonkou and made Mama warn Kaido to dodge out of fear of his life
  • He overpowered Kaido's Tatsumaki and cut him up
  • He fought both Yonkou along with the other Supernova for several tens of minutes to a few hours
  • He briefly stopped a finisher combination attack of both Yonkou
  • He endured said combination attack and kept on fighting even while every bone in his body was shattered
  • He blitzed Mama on several occasions
  • He bested Kaido in a short 1 vs 1 clash, parrying his attacks, blitzing and grievously wounding him.
    • He left a scar on Kaido and is only the 2nd person to do so.
    • Top tiers that Kaido seems to have fought that failed to scar him:
      • Roger
      • Whitebeard
      • Shanks
      • Mama
      • Admirals
    • He did all of this while every bone in his body was shattered
Zoro looks much stronger than King. Like given King's current feats and portrayal (if you take them at face value), it appears that Zoro would murk him really badly. If Zoro and King were to fight right now, then their respective feats and portrayal make King a massive underdog.

If Oda wants to have #4 or #5 happen, he's going to drastically raise King's standing. He's not going to have Zoro face a difficult fight when his opponent is a massive underdog.


Elevating King's Standing
There are caveats to King's poor portrayal so far that could be used to greatly elevate his standing and make him look like a formidable opponent for Zoro:
  • In his fight with Marco, King appears to have been massively holding back. He has not used:
    • His fire powers
    • His hybrid form
    • Any named attacks
    • Any form of haki at all
  • Several details of King have been hidden that could vastly raise his threat level:
    • The secret of his race that led BM to covet him
      • His race could have several quirks that could greatly elevate his threat level. Perhaps undying fire qualities
  • His bounty
    • Revealing a bounty above Luffy's/Marco's would greatly elevate his threat.
  • Oda could grant King several qualities that would raise his standing:
    • He could reveal that King is a Conqueror
      • If he wants King to force Zoro to grow/evolve, he could also grant King Advanced COC (an ability that Kaido said is exclusive to "a handful of the very strongest").
  • He could grant King Awakening for his Devil Fruit
    • I expect that Zoan Awakening works like Chopper's Monster Point (in addition to improved recovery and resilience)
  • Oda could have King straight up overpower Marco once he stops jobbing
Fundamentally, King can be as strong as Oda wants to make him. If Oda intends for King to give a healthy Zoro a difficult fight, he's going to make him much stronger than he appears to be now.


Might King be a Top Tier?
I don't see why King should be moved up if he performs well, he's not a top tier that much should be clear.​
Consider this my response to the above claim. Based on his current feats/portrayal, King is definitely not a top tier. But based on his current feats and portrayal, King is not going to give a recovered Zoro a difficult fight. Oda is not going to have King begin his fight against Zoro looking like a massive underdog, and then proceed to actually challenge Zoro. That's just not how Shounen storytelling works. Whenever the protagonists are giving difficult battles, they begin the battles as the underdogs.

I don't think it's impossible for King to be a top tier. Or more specifically, if Oda proceeds to hype up King along the paths I described, he'll make King so much more formidable as an opponent than Katakuri, that the high tier spectrum cannot accommodate him (I have Marco at Peak High Tier, and Katakuri as High or Peak High Tier. Decisively besting Marco when he goes all out would place King above those currently considered to be the most formidable high tiers).

Alternatively, Kaido said that cladding yourself with COC is an ability exclusive to "a handful of the very strongest"; if King is revealed to possess such an ability β€” a development that would grant meaning to Zoro vs King, as it would play an actual role in Zoro's development as a fighter β€” then King is automatically a top tier.


Expectations of Zoro vs King
All the above is premised on King fighting Zoro and giving him a #4 or #5 style battle. I don't actually consider those to be likely outcomes at this point, but if Oda does intend to pursue that path, I can't imagine how Oda would depict King as anything other than what would be considered a top tier (or at least, he'll show King to be above Marco).

More likely, Zoro wouldn't fight King or if he does, we get a battle in the style of #1 to #3. If King is revealed to indeed have a bounty significantly higher than Marco/Luffy and proceeds to defeat Marco, it would raise his standing enough that he isn't a massive underdog when he faces Zoro. Adding Awakening and (Advanced) COC would be enough to make him feel enough of a legitimate threat that a battle with Zoro would have actual tension in it again.

If I was to place any bets on what type of fight a potential Zoro vs King would be, I'd guess #2 (perhaps with some flavour of #3). Zoro has been heavily injured:



And I'm really sceptical that Oda will magic away those injuries. Oda didn't magic away:
  • Zoro's injuries from his battle with Mihawk.
    • It lasted until at least the end of Arlong Park.
  • Zoro's injuries from taking all of Luffy's damage.
    • It lasted until after Marineford.

History suggests that Oda doesn't magic away Zoro's injuries when there's a narrative purpose to them. Zoro may recover somewhat before his next fight(s), but he's unlikely to be fully healed.

Essentially, it's not that Oda can't heal Zoro, it's that narratively he wouldn't. Magicking away Zoro's damage means that Hakai had no consequences and Zoro's "sacrifice" was never actually a sacrifice at all.

Furthermore, Oda is loathe to pass on the opportunities to demonstrate Zoro shining even β€” no especially β€” in the face of adversity:




Defeating King while heavily injured could be the latest display of that.



Summary
To summarise what I've said above:
  • King's true combat ability is unknown
  • King is currently the perceived underdog in a fight with a healthy Zoro, so if Oda intended for King to fight a healthy Zoro (and for the battle not to be devoid of tension), he'll substantially elevate King's combat ability first:
    • He could grant King a bounty higher than Marco.
    • He could have King defeat Marco.
    • He could make King a Conqueror and grant him the ability to clad his attacks in COC.
    • He could grant King a powerup related to his race.
    • He could make King's hybrid form especially imposing.
    • He could grant King Awakening for his Devil Fruit.
  • Zoro will probably fight King while heavily injured. Zoro's poor condition will be the source of the difficulty.
 
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Cinera

π•·π–†π–‰π–ž π•·π–†π–’π–‡π–‰π–†π–‰π–Šπ–‘π–™π–†
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#5
In case it wasn't clear, I don't actually expect COC coating, and all that jazz from King. That's what I would have expected if King was to fight a healthy Zoro and give him a very difficult fight (when I wrote this piece it wasn't yet clear how heavily injured Zoro was, and if his injuries would persist).

Currently, I believe that Zoro's injuries would persist, and that if he fights King, he'll do so while heavily "nerfed". As such, King doesn't need to be > Marco to give Zoro a very difficult/tense fight.

@Topi Jerami, @TheAncientCenturion.
 
#7
I don’t think King has been taking this raid seriously at all. He’s been on the phone, not taking part in the fight and no sign of his racial abilities or trump cards. For whatever reason, Oda is saving him for his intended opponent, be it Zoro or Marco or whoever else.

There is some precedent for Zoro fighting the arc antagonist and getting a 1v1 on top of that - Hody and Hyouzou spring to mind. But I seriously doubt Zoro can stomp King like he did Hyouzou, especially in his current state. I’d rather Zoro recovered and returned to fight Kaido since it is painfully obvious to all but the most rabid Luffy stans that Luffy is not ready to 1v1 the champion himself.
 

Cinera

π•·π–†π–‰π–ž π•·π–†π–’π–‡π–‰π–†π–‰π–Šπ–‘π–™π–†
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#8
Finally a Zori thread:feelsokeman:
I'll write threads on whichever characters I want to write threads on. Currently, that's Yamato, sometimes Law, and Sanji.

When Zoro does something β€” anything of note again β€” I may write more threads on him.

In particular, I'm waiting for some of the following to happen:
  • He gets healed
  • He starts fighting King
  • He meets Hiyori
  • He gets a flashback
  • He shows COC enhanced attacks
  • He thinks about black blades
  • He faces Kaido again
  • He acquires the Nidai Kitetsu
 
#9
Disclaimer
This was written during my hiatus in a PM with @ZenZu, as such it may be a bit dated. I added some new information, but keep that in mind.

I'm only posting it now because people have been complaining that I'm not posting about Zoro.

As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction

I don't think that Zoro fighting King (if it indeed happens) would mean that Zoro is a high tier or comparable to YC 1s. For one, we don't actually know how strong King is. Oda could make him anywhere from comparable to Queen to significantly stronger than Marco.


Possibilities for a Zoro vs King Fight
There are a few main ways I think Zoro vs King can go:
  1. Zoro stomps him
    • Think Zoro vs Captain T-Bone or Zoro vs Hyouzou.
  2. King is challenging because Zoro is very injured
    • Think Zoro vs Hatchan
  3. Zoro uses King as a training dummy for his Advanced COC
    • Think Luffy's battles in Udon
  4. King is a match for a recovered Zoro and gives him a difficult and beautiful swordsman fight
    • Think Zoro vs Ryuma
  5. King is above a recovered Zoro and forces Zoro to surpass himself and or power up to beat him
    • Think Zoro vs Kaku
      • E.g. Zoro finally masters imbuing COC into his attacks and that's what lets him beat King
      • Zoro has to use Asura to beat King
    • Zoro vs Daz Bones is another example, but inapplicable here after Zoro cut Kaido.
      • Zoro also already knows how to cut fire.
If any of the first three options play out, then Zoro is indeed much stronger than Yonkou 1st Commanders (and by extension all high tiers).


Relative Standing of Zoro and King
The issue is if Oda wants #4 or #5 to happen. If Oda intends for King to give Zoro a solid high difficulty fight or for Zoro to surpass King, then Oda has a problem; right now, Zoro appears to be considerably stronger than King. Zoro wouldn't be the underdog in this fight, but rather King would be.

In #4/#5 style fights, Zoro's opponents always look very formidable if not outright superior to Zoro:
  • Against Daz Bones, Daz looked stronger at the beginning, with Zoro unable to cut steel.
  • Against Kaku, Kaku looked stronger with CP 9 having already stomped the Strawhats in Water 7.
  • Against Ryuma, Ryuma looked like a formidable opponent having negged and troll diffed Brook.
    • He was also the Zombie of a legendary swordsman.

Contrast King:
  • He's taking damage from Marco in a 2 vs 1
  • He has no independently superior portrayal to Queen
Vs Zoro:
  • His Hiryuu Kaen terrified the Yonkou and made Mama warn Kaido to dodge out of fear of his life
  • He overpowered Kaido's Tatsumaki and cut him up
  • He fought both Yonkou along with the other Supernova for several tens of minutes to a few hours
  • He briefly stopped a finisher combination attack of both Yonkou
  • He endured said combination attack and kept on fighting even while every bone in his body was shattered
  • He blitzed Mama on several occasions
  • He bested Kaido in a short 1 vs 1 clash, parrying his attacks, blitzing and grievously wounding him.
    • He left a scar on Kaido and is only the 2nd person to do so.
    • Top tiers that Kaido seems to have fought that failed to scar him:
      • Roger
      • Whitebeard
      • Shanks
      • Mama
      • Admirals
    • He did all of this while every bone in his body was shattered
Zoro looks much stronger than King. Like given King's current feats and portrayal (if you take them at face value), it appears that Zoro would murk him really badly. If Zoro and King were to fight right now, then their respective feats and portrayal make King a massive underdog.

If Oda wants to have #4 or #5 happen, he's going to drastically raise King's standing. He's not going to have Zoro face a difficult fight when his opponent is a massive underdog.


Elevating King's Standing
There are caveats to King's poor portrayal so far that could be used to greatly elevate his standing and make him look like a formidable opponent for Zoro:
  • In his fight with Marco, King appears to have been massively holding back. He has not used:
    • His fire powers
    • His hybrid form
    • Any named attacks
    • Any form of haki at all
  • Several details of King have been hidden that could vastly raise his threat level:
    • The secret of his race that led BM to covet him
      • His race could have several quirks that could greatly elevate his threat level. Perhaps undying fire qualities
  • His bounty
    • Revealing a bounty above Luffy's/Marco's would greatly elevate his threat.
  • Oda could grant King several qualities that would raise his standing:
    • He could reveal that King is a Conqueror
      • If he wants King to force Zoro to grow/evolve, he could also grant King Advanced COC (an ability that Kaido said is exclusive to "a handful of the very strongest").
  • He could grant King Awakening for his Devil Fruit
    • I expect that Zoan Awakening works like Chopper's Monster Point (in addition to improved recovery and resilience)
  • Oda could have King straight up overpower Marco once he stops jobbing
Fundamentally, King can be as strong as Oda wants to make him. If Oda intends for King to give a healthy Zoro a difficult fight, he's going to make him much stronger than he appears to be now.


Might King be a Top Tier?
Consider this my response to the above claim. Based on his current feats/portrayal, King is definitely not a top tier. But based on his current feats and portrayal, King is not going to give a recovered Zoro a difficult fight. Oda is not going to have King begin his fight against Zoro looking like a massive underdog, and then proceed to actually challenge Zoro. That's just not how Shounen storytelling works. Whenever the protagonists are giving difficult battles, they begin the battles as the underdogs.

I don't think it's impossible for King to be a top tier. Or more specifically, if Oda proceeds to hype up King along the paths I described, he'll make King so much more formidable as an opponent than Katakuri, that the high tier spectrum cannot accommodate him (I have Marco at Peak High Tier, and Katakuri as High or Peak High Tier. Decisively besting Marco when he goes all out would place King above those currently considered to be the most formidable high tiers).

Alternatively, Kaido said that cladding yourself with COC is an ability exclusive to "a handful of the very strongest"; if King is revealed to possess such an ability β€” a development that would grant meaning to Zoro vs King, as it would play an actual role in Zoro's development as a fighter β€” then King is automatically a top tier.


Expectations of Zoro vs King
All the above is premised on King fighting Zoro and giving him a #4 or #5 style battle. I don't actually consider those to be likely outcomes at this point, but if Oda does intend to pursue that path, I can't imagine how Oda would depict King as anything other than what would be considered a top tier (or at least, he'll show King to be above Marco).

More likely, Zoro wouldn't fight King or if he does, we get a battle in the style of #1 to #3. If King is revealed to indeed have a bounty significantly higher than Marco/Luffy and proceeds to defeat Marco, it would raise his standing enough that he isn't a massive underdog when he faces Zoro. Adding Awakening and (Advanced) COC would be enough to make him feel enough of a legitimate threat that a battle with Zoro would have actual tension in it again.

If I was to place any bets on what type of fight a potential Zoro vs King would be, I'd guess #2 (perhaps with some flavour of #3). Zoro has been heavily injured:



And I'm really sceptical that Oda will magic away those injuries. Oda didn't magic away:
  • Zoro's injuries from his battle with Mihawk.
    • It lasted until at least the end of Arlong Park.
  • Zoro's injuries from taking all of Luffy's damage.
    • It lasted until after Marineford.

History suggests that Oda doesn't magic away Zoro's injuries when there's a narrative purpose to them. Zoro may recover somewhat before his next fight(s), but he's unlikely to be fully healed.

Essentially, it's not that Oda can't heal Zoro, it's that narratively he wouldn't. Magicking away Zoro's damage means that Hakai had no consequences and Zoro's "sacrifice" was never actually a sacrifice at all.

Furthermore, Oda is loathe to pass on the opportunities to demonstrate Zoro shining even β€” no especially β€” in the face of adversity:




Defeating King while heavily injured could be the latest display of that.



Summary
To summarise what I've said above:
  • King's true combat ability is unknown
  • King is currently the perceived underdog in a fight with a healthy Zoro, so if Oda intended for King to fight a healthy Zoro (and for the battle not to be devoid of tension), he'll substantially elevate King's combat ability first:
    • He could grant King a bounty higher than Marco.
    • He could have King defeat Marco.
    • He could make King a Conqueror and grant him the ability to clad his attacks in COC.
    • He could grant King a powerup related to his race.
    • He could make King's hybrid form especially imposing.
    • He could grant King Awakening for his Devil Fruit.
  • Zoro will probably fight King while heavily injured. Zoro's poor condition will be the source of the difficulty.
:cheers::cheers::cheers:

You are correct. At this point, a #4 or a #5 is no longer possible.

Half-Dead Zoro vs King (or, indeed, Queen) is only likely to be somewhere between #1-#3. :brootea:

Also, maybe Zoro's lasting injury will stay until SHPs meet BBPs too for Shiryu to be a believable challenge for Zoro, because as it is right now, Healthy Zoro sneezestomps Shiryu. :usosmug:
 
#11
I hope for a Daz Bones battle for multiple reason.
We not seen a epic swordmen fight since the timeskip, I want Zoro to learn more about his adv CoC, he making Ashura to a form and combinate it with his moves with he use in base form(just imagine the power behind the sword slashes), overall I hope for a better haki duell. For that King NEED adv CoC too and probably adv CoA(step 1),awakening and great endurance(with he most liike have) so he can give Zoro a great extrem battle. Zoro could push himself to his limit and make his adv CoC even better.
In case for his next match, Shiryuu would portrayal above King as a legit top tier.
 
#13
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#14
In case it wasn't clear, I don't actually expect COC coating, and all that jazz from King. That's what I would have expected if King was to fight a healthy Zoro and give him a very difficult fight (when I wrote this piece it wasn't yet clear how heavily injured Zoro was, and if his injuries would persist).

Currently, I believe that Zoro's injuries would persist, and that if he fights King, he'll do so while heavily "nerfed". As such, King doesn't need to be > Marco to give Zoro a very difficult/tense fight.

@Topi Jerami, @TheAncientCenturion.
So what benefit Zoro get from fighting King?
 
#15
I hope the fight happens.

Kata and King seem to be counterparts so my theory is King has some form of Adv.CoA coating in contrast to Kata's future sight. I also expect him to have CoC, but it doesnt make sense for Zoro to have a CoC fight like Luffy is having now but against an underling.

King seems to be from some sorta extinct race(?), im not sure how it will play into the fight tho.
 
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Finalbeta

Science Nerd 🌌 🌍 🧬 βš›οΈ
.
#16
Zoro acquires no intrinsic hype from King in normal conditions most likely. No specific hefty weight at all hype wise. Of course he's messed up right now, but yet I expect him more probably to re establish better than during post Hakai time so King shall still most probably prove fairly superseded.
 
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