Speculations Something is rotten in the state of Liberation

[OykotsTreasure]

I actually had a theory along very similar lines. It's...not looking too good for that particular theory, but it technically hasn't been disproven quite yet.

https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...message-will-be-the-dragons-are-coming.55673/

But to sum it up VERY briefly, my idea was that Joyboy wanted to free the dragons who are currently imprisoned in the center of the planet. Humanity stole the land from the dragons, and are now trying to "end the war" by wiping out all of their prisoners before they can escape.

Basically, the conflict in my mind is "do you free a group of people who were wrongfully imprisoned...if they're most likely going to try to kill everyone once they're finally free?" Joyboy wanted to do the "right" thing, and undo a long standing injustice. The Alliance wanted to do the "sane" thing, and not risk humanity's lives.

Part of me kind of wonders if Joyboy is actually the reason Luffy doesn't want to be a hero? Did Joyboy actualy WANT to be a hero? Did Luffy actually learn a lesson "subconsciously" from how that ended for Joyboy? Were Joyboy and Luffy basically the same, or were there slight differences? I'm honestly not sure, but I'm interested in finding out, whenever it comes up.

 

[Etzel Andergast]

Ancient Kingdom good, the World Government bad, right?

According to Vegapunk, things arent as clear-cut as believed.
And there is a lot of evidence suggesting that things are off in this century-long war...

First of all, let's point out the fact that the supposed good guys from the Ancient Kingdom and their leading figure, the supposedly good guy called Joyboy are the ones who created and used the world-destroying weapons that we know today as Ancient Weapons. It is them who sank the world and wiped out all the civilizations, not the World Government.

Based on that alone, are the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy the good guys? Absolutely not.
One might say, it wasn't them, it was the WG who did that but we can debunk that easily by pointing out that WG is not able to use the Ancient Weapons, they don't have the technology to create the fuel those weapons require. Imu owns Uranus for who knows how long and they only were able to use it once after stealing the fuel from Vegapunk who just managed to recreate something that resembles the fuel.

Another pro-AK argument could be that other weapons don't need fuel and WG took those instead.
I would argue that I can counter that too. First off, other weapons need some kind of fuel too and second, they don't have the same world-ending effect that Uranus does.
Uranus is the weapon that represents the sky and shoots its projectile from the Sky downwards, creating a hole in the planet that results in sea level rising by 1 meter.

The other two weapons don't work the same way. While we have to assume that Pluton sails on the sea or at least travels on Land, it shoots its projectiles horizontally and thus not drilling a hole downwards into the planet, we don't have to assume how the weapon that represents the sea works, not really. It has been foreshadowed through Fishmen karate, whether it is the couple of water drops or the well known water spear from Jinbe, imagine that but on a whole another level.

I would argue that we even saw Poseidon firing a couple of times in the show but we weren't aware of it - the Knock Up Stream!
The same thing happens when Uranus is activated. Dark clouds gather but instead of 16 shots from the sky, we have one big water spear from the Sea upwards that tears islands apart.

The point here is that the sinking of the world by 200 meters was done through 200 shots of Uranus!
Aside from Lulusia, the only other known target of Uranus is the hole beneath Enies Lobby.

The 1st question I have here is - what were those 200 targets??!
The 2nd question is - how did the 20 Kings oppose such weapons of mass destruction to begin with?!
The 3rd question is - Why did a D, namely Nefertari Lily oppose the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy?

We have to point out a fact that the World Government wasn't even a thing. It formed in order to stop whatever the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy were doing. So, what were they doing that leaders of 20 nations had to band together to stop them? They had too many sex orgies?!

Clearly, the actions of the faction that used 3 world-destroying weapons were wrong in the eyes of the 20 Kings.
A whole century they opposed their ideals until they finally managed to defeat them.
The figure that lead the Ancient Kingdom was the Warrior of Liberation.

As we see it through Luffy, he is obsessed with liberating this, liberating that, liberating everything... Was Joyboy the same?
Of course he was. So he wanted to liberate something and the 20 Kings thought liberating that wasn't a good idea.
What was he trying to liberate is the most important question here.

Whatever happened after the war and Imu doing his thing is another story but during the Void Century this wasn't an Imu-problem.
The Joyboy was a problem in the eyes of 20 people.
Also, why does a shot of Uranus result in a sea level increase? Is there more water to be had inside the planet so it is released every time a hole is drilled?

Too many questions, too few answers...

I dont believe the 20 kings were evil (except for Imu). I think they had good reasons to oppose the WG. But at the same time Imu was manipulating them to create the WG. A good reason to think why the 20 kings weren't evil is the fact that Lili was one of them. In some moment Lili regretted and left (maybe because she discover Imu intentions??).

It's clear that Imu was not the king of the world since the first day of WG creation. He probably wait for the death of the other kings. After that he started to manipulate the new generation of CD, creating an elite between them that could make him be the secret king of the world

 

[drachenblut1]

I bet that Bb ancestor (today yami yami no mis will) betrayed joyboy. He is also the only "different" D. (like bb), cunning, manipulating and also fears death. So probably zou and the robot made some mistake , which resulted in joyboy's defeat because of bb ancestors betrayal.

Btw, I think just like the gomu gomu no mi doesn't exist, the yami yami no mi also doesn't exist. It's made up. Probably that is also a mythical zoan, which should be forgotten, just like the nika fruit.

And most probably, the fruit chose bb, just like luffys fruit chose luffy. So maybe bb was manipulated?

 

[trav]

All Vegapunk said was that he does not know enough to judge.
No real use discussing this until further information is revealed.