Questions & Mysteries Straw Hat Vice Captain
- Thread starter PirateKingDrew
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Lol I wrote a papyrus about it. That scene as well as seeming "comical" dates back to when Usopp joined the crew saying he wanted to be the captain, after which he offered to replace Luffy in the future, but Luffy soon after gave him the role of gunner / sniper, and in any case the Usopp's behavior at W7 confirms that he couldn't be the VC
Mmh I don't remember this
Yes, surely
it would be great, but I doubt that it happens, Oda does not have the freedom to say it for marketing reasons, the fandom is too divided on this topic, maybe at the most it will say it in the end like "it has always been the VC and I made you understand it in every way" xD
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Mmh I don't remember this
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Yes, surely
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it would be great, but I doubt that it happens, Oda does not have the freedom to say it for marketing reasons, the fandom is too divided on this topic, maybe at the most it will say it in the end like "it has always been the VC and I made you understand it in every way" xD
Apparently you missed a lot of steps ...
1) the fact that many his lies come true does not mean that Usopp is vice-captain, and even if he were, a vice-captain would never leave the crew for a personal whim (yeah whim, I explain later), never. Maybe I will agree with you when Usopp becomes captain and 8,000 men follow him.
2) Usopp knew that the ship could no longer sail, he knew that at any moment it would make them all sink, but he didn't say anything, he ignored this fact and made up his mind that he could repair it, endangering the crew. He got angry and insulted the captain who suffered in making such a painful decision (as if only Usopp cared about Merry) and decided to abandon his FRIENDS for a now dead ship,
by now the matter had become a whim, the ship could no longer sail and certainly it was not the fault of the crew, but he became obsessed with the ship. Zoro took his behavior into consideration, for this he got angry and ordered his companions not to go to Usopp (like a TRUE VC) because Usopp was wrong and he had to be the one to apologize, not the crew. Okay that ship was very important to him, but is it even more important than your friends? a vice-captain would NEVER do what Usopp did, nor abandoned his crew. The fact that the ship eventually rescued them doesn't change what I said above
I wrote the papyrus for another person
1) the fact that many his lies come true does not mean that Usopp is vice-captain, and even if he were, a vice-captain would never leave the crew for a personal whim (yeah whim, I explain later), never. Maybe I will agree with you when Usopp becomes captain and 8,000 men follow him.
2) Usopp knew that the ship could no longer sail, he knew that at any moment it would make them all sink, but he didn't say anything, he ignored this fact and made up his mind that he could repair it, endangering the crew. He got angry and insulted the captain who suffered in making such a painful decision (as if only Usopp cared about Merry) and decided to abandon his FRIENDS for a now dead ship,
by now the matter had become a whim, the ship could no longer sail and certainly it was not the fault of the crew, but he became obsessed with the ship. Zoro took his behavior into consideration, for this he got angry and ordered his companions not to go to Usopp (like a TRUE VC) because Usopp was wrong and he had to be the one to apologize, not the crew. Okay that ship was very important to him, but is it even more important than your friends? a vice-captain would NEVER do what Usopp did, nor abandoned his crew. The fact that the ship eventually rescued them doesn't change what I said above
I wrote the papyrus for another person
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So very significant
Yeah initially. But that Usopp was very different from what we know now, he was similar to Zoro, I mean he seemed much more bold and self-confident. Then Oda changed all.
like I said, the answer wasn't for you, but for Yasheen
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you missed the point again. the ship is also a crewmate. so you think luffy should leave zoro behind if he gets hurt? or nami? if you wouldn't do that to the other crewmates and would to the merry you're showing favoritism, disrespect, and being a bad captain. thats what the fight was about. LUFFY abandoning his crew. Usopp left because Luffy abandoned a crewmate and didn't act like it was serious.
I repeat that despite being a companion, it was still a ship, an almost dead ship destined to sink. Merry's job was to carry the mugiwara to the end of the voyage, but she couldn't do it anymore. As Zoro said, humans get hurt and learn to strengthen themselves, but a ship's wounds accumulate more and more, until they become irreversible. I think you have forgotten about this, because you cannot compare the wounds of a human being to those of a ship
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again, thats the ships spirit's decision. luffy wanted to abandon it before it sailed its last voyage and it wanted to go down fighting. this is like saying they should have left zoro behind at thriller bark because he was really hurt. or that everyone should have let luffy die of the poison in impel down
So Luffy suffered making that decision, but he did the right thing as a captain, for the good of the crew ... which Usopp throughout W7 didn't do.
So you wanted Luffy to listen to Usopp and sink into the seas with the crew? MERRY COULD NOT NAVIGATE ANY MORE, do you understand it? a ship's wounds accumulate until they become too bad to repair.
Again, you can't compare the wounds of a ship to that of a human ... so stop do examples like "so also Zoro had to be abandoned at TB" because you know it's not the same thing
So you wanted Luffy to listen to Usopp and sink into the seas with the crew? MERRY COULD NOT NAVIGATE ANY MORE, do you understand it? a ship's wounds accumulate until they become too bad to repair.
Again, you can't compare the wounds of a ship to that of a human ... so stop do examples like "so also Zoro had to be abandoned at TB" because you know it's not the same thing
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Exactly, a LAST time, but only by Merry's will, but that was her limit. When Merry saved the crew, it was the last time, in fact shortly after she broke up. If Luffy had listened to Usopp, they would have sunk along with the ship, so Luffy was right and Usopp was wrong.
The crew has never stopped considering Merry a companion of theirs. I don't know why we are continuing to argue about obvious things 😅 I explained to you why Usopp can't be the VC given his behavior at W7, but you didn't answer my argument and just said "Merry was a mate, Luffy didn't care about the ship" and comparing the injuries of a ship to that of humans, so I replied to this
The crew has never stopped considering Merry a companion of theirs. I don't know why we are continuing to argue about obvious things 😅 I explained to you why Usopp can't be the VC given his behavior at W7, but you didn't answer my argument and just said "Merry was a mate, Luffy didn't care about the ship" and comparing the injuries of a ship to that of humans, so I replied to this
The general notion of the "vice-captain" is the second in command someone who is capable to take the helm when the captain is not present (Imo its zoro I'll give my perspective at the end) . In the case of Straw hat Pirates
its a bit intrinsic than one thinks it really is, from a direct sight one assumes that Zoro is the vice captain coz he is the first mate, but which gets negated since we know oda planned on keeping ussop as a vise captain,
even the viver card states that zoro has "acted" like the vise captain in certain scenarios as a voice of reason like in water 7 reminding luffy who he is and makes him realize the pedestal he stands upon is that of a pivotal head of thr crew,but it doesn't really emphatically points out that he is the second in command ir the vice captain.. but if that's how you determined who's the vice captain then.. you have another solid example as sanji.
Now here is the thing, sanji also has played the role of being incentive of morale for others like Vivi in Alabasta and ussop in Enies lobby, And and also led a part of the crew to a separate expedition but does that mean that he factually is the Vice captain? both zoro and sanji have done alot for their crews
Theyy both lead the vanguard of the crew into battles.. if the Cap is not present..like in the case of thriller bark, they both have even protected the crew by going on out alone and defending it, in zoro's case it was Whisky peaks and in sanji's was the whole alabasta arc and enies lobby and have sacrificed themselves for the crew and their captain...it doesn't end here, now in comes jimbe. In WCI jimbe was in charge of the whole crew when Luffy was in midst of his fight with katakuri and sanji gone to stop BM's hunger pangs, not only that but he even raised the crew's morale after Pedro's death, just like zoro and sanji did, they 3 have striking parallels and well suited characteristics to become the Vice captain..
But here's this catch with sanji, unlike the other 2 he goes off and does his thing to protect the crew but in certain situations you can rely on him as the Command center of crew at hand like The Twirly pirates in Zou..and that was a rare occasion as well...if it was zoro instead of sanji he'd do the same if he understood law's plan.
I think we can come to a conclusion that its very very circumstantial that each if them become the Vice captain of their crew when luffy isn't there , and coincidentally if sanji is in charge zoro isn't there, and if zoro is then sanji isn't there, and if both of them are there then they both usually do their own thing but collaborate when it comes down to it, like in thriller bark... and when both of them aren't there then jimbe becomes the command center.
But Imo even if you "can" come to the conclusion above... portrayal wise Zoro takes the role.. he has been with luffy through thick and thin even more than sanji has been where sanji goes his own way to protect the crew. I just read thriller bark and noticed zoro was more worried about luffy's shadow than his own and everyone agreed waiting for luffy to come back is a gamble this just means that the captain is first priority no matter what and that notion of staying with the Captain! portrayal wise the story SHOUTS that zoro is the 2nd in command.. the reason why zoro is there on the roof top is due to him being by Luffy in the light luffy has been in and obviously is parallel with Killer.. who is only another Vice cap in in the SN's. Ifzoro isn't available one can always count on sanji's expertise to guide them the same goes with jimbe... just like kaido has 3 right hand men with king taking the highest command.. you can comparatively say the same for zoro, sanji, and jimbe, so if luffy had to split his crew he'd have these 3 as the heads of each respective team.
Btw thriller bark is a must read.
*edit : this is my opinion should be obvious
its a bit intrinsic than one thinks it really is, from a direct sight one assumes that Zoro is the vice captain coz he is the first mate, but which gets negated since we know oda planned on keeping ussop as a vise captain,
even the viver card states that zoro has "acted" like the vise captain in certain scenarios as a voice of reason like in water 7 reminding luffy who he is and makes him realize the pedestal he stands upon is that of a pivotal head of thr crew,but it doesn't really emphatically points out that he is the second in command ir the vice captain.. but if that's how you determined who's the vice captain then.. you have another solid example as sanji.
Now here is the thing, sanji also has played the role of being incentive of morale for others like Vivi in Alabasta and ussop in Enies lobby, And and also led a part of the crew to a separate expedition but does that mean that he factually is the Vice captain? both zoro and sanji have done alot for their crews
Theyy both lead the vanguard of the crew into battles.. if the Cap is not present..like in the case of thriller bark, they both have even protected the crew by going on out alone and defending it, in zoro's case it was Whisky peaks and in sanji's was the whole alabasta arc and enies lobby and have sacrificed themselves for the crew and their captain...it doesn't end here, now in comes jimbe. In WCI jimbe was in charge of the whole crew when Luffy was in midst of his fight with katakuri and sanji gone to stop BM's hunger pangs, not only that but he even raised the crew's morale after Pedro's death, just like zoro and sanji did, they 3 have striking parallels and well suited characteristics to become the Vice captain..
But here's this catch with sanji, unlike the other 2 he goes off and does his thing to protect the crew but in certain situations you can rely on him as the Command center of crew at hand like The Twirly pirates in Zou..and that was a rare occasion as well...if it was zoro instead of sanji he'd do the same if he understood law's plan.
I think we can come to a conclusion that its very very circumstantial that each if them become the Vice captain of their crew when luffy isn't there , and coincidentally if sanji is in charge zoro isn't there, and if zoro is then sanji isn't there, and if both of them are there then they both usually do their own thing but collaborate when it comes down to it, like in thriller bark... and when both of them aren't there then jimbe becomes the command center.
But Imo even if you "can" come to the conclusion above... portrayal wise Zoro takes the role.. he has been with luffy through thick and thin even more than sanji has been where sanji goes his own way to protect the crew. I just read thriller bark and noticed zoro was more worried about luffy's shadow than his own and everyone agreed waiting for luffy to come back is a gamble this just means that the captain is first priority no matter what and that notion of staying with the Captain! portrayal wise the story SHOUTS that zoro is the 2nd in command.. the reason why zoro is there on the roof top is due to him being by Luffy in the light luffy has been in and obviously is parallel with Killer.. who is only another Vice cap in in the SN's. Ifzoro isn't available one can always count on sanji's expertise to guide them the same goes with jimbe... just like kaido has 3 right hand men with king taking the highest command.. you can comparatively say the same for zoro, sanji, and jimbe, so if luffy had to split his crew he'd have these 3 as the heads of each respective team.
Btw thriller bark is a must read.
*edit : this is my opinion should be obvious
I approve of your opinion and I agree that both are absolutely vice captain worthy.
What I think is that neither are vice captains though. Zoro is a great right hand to Luffy. He is arguably the straw hat that holds Luffy accountable the most and sees ensuring Luffys dream as one of his primary reasons on the ship.
Sanji is a great left hand to Luffy. Where as Zoro holds Luffy accountable, Sanji will stick up to and for the crew and hold them accountable. Many of Sanjis leadership moments was him standing up for the crew and him revitalizing the crew. Just as many of Zoros are him holding Luffy to a standard.
Water 7 showed this the best. There’s a reason Sanji stood up for Usopp and kicked Luffy when he was about to say something unforgivable then we have Zoro try to stop Luffy when he was about to cave in to Usopp after the fact.
What I think is that neither are vice captains though. Zoro is a great right hand to Luffy. He is arguably the straw hat that holds Luffy accountable the most and sees ensuring Luffys dream as one of his primary reasons on the ship.
Sanji is a great left hand to Luffy. Where as Zoro holds Luffy accountable, Sanji will stick up to and for the crew and hold them accountable. Many of Sanjis leadership moments was him standing up for the crew and him revitalizing the crew. Just as many of Zoros are him holding Luffy to a standard.
Water 7 showed this the best. There’s a reason Sanji stood up for Usopp and kicked Luffy when he was about to say something unforgivable then we have Zoro try to stop Luffy when he was about to cave in to Usopp after the fact.