Powers & Abilities Swordsmanship is All About Haki
- Thread starter Cinera
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It's an irrelevant question. Zoro did many things this arc. What changed his title? Oda.... Why? He did not say.....
And I am not saying that Haki isn't a huge benefit to Swordsmen either, because that is required for any non DF user if they want to reach the Top.
But VIsta is a higher ranked Swordsman than Zoro, but a far cry from Top Tier.
So if you guys want to provide a solid argument as to how that is possible in regards to Haki, without contradicting Vista's Sword rank, in comparison to his rank among the strongest characters in the World, then I am all ears
And I am not saying that Haki isn't a huge benefit to Swordsmen either, because that is required for any non DF user if they want to reach the Top.
But VIsta is a higher ranked Swordsman than Zoro, but a far cry from Top Tier.
So if you guys want to provide a solid argument as to how that is possible in regards to Haki, without contradicting Vista's Sword rank, in comparison to his rank among the strongest characters in the World, then I am all ears
He asking you a simple question that you keep avoiding. The major increase Zoro got was CoC haki. See its not that hard to answer simple question.
What does these Ranks correlate too? Is this stated in the story or the requirements for each rank. I am confused, why would i provide argument for Vista and Zoro rank? What does these Ranks mean?
What does these Ranks correlate too? Is this stated in the story or the requirements for each rank. I am confused, why would i provide argument for Vista and Zoro rank? What does these Ranks mean?
He was certainly not talking about being less refined at sword techniques though. The skill he was talking about in this particular instance is reactions. Getting injured in a fight isn't a swordsman-specific thing. And it's not like I am saying skills don't matter for swordsmen. Obviously, skills matter to any given fighter with any given fighting style.
What I am asking is, since you seem to imply being refined(whatever that means) is what makes you a better swordsman as opposed to just being overall stronger, what aspect about Zoro became so drastically more refined after 1009 or 1036 that he's now being called a master swordsman?
Okay, let's try to be consistent with our logic like you said earlier with the other guy. And let's talk in terms of swordsman ranks and Haki. Zoro and Shanks are master swordsmen while Mihawk and Vista are great master swordsmen.
Zoro has more skill than Vista but is still stronger because he has stronger Haki. Now, being a more Haki-centric fighter with less skill, unlike Vista, didn't stop Zoro from being included in Mihawk's World's Strongest Title, did it? So how is it that the same logic doesn't apply to Shanks?
What I am asking is, since you seem to imply being refined(whatever that means) is what makes you a better swordsman as opposed to just being overall stronger, what aspect about Zoro became so drastically more refined after 1009 or 1036 that he's now being called a master swordsman?
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Okay, let's try to be consistent with our logic like you said earlier with the other guy. And let's talk in terms of swordsman ranks and Haki. Zoro and Shanks are master swordsmen while Mihawk and Vista are great master swordsmen.
Zoro has more skill than Vista but is still stronger because he has stronger Haki. Now, being a more Haki-centric fighter with less skill, unlike Vista, didn't stop Zoro from being included in Mihawk's World's Strongest Title, did it? So how is it that the same logic doesn't apply to Shanks?
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That's how martial arts works. The more refined your techniques are, the more effective they become. Zoro doesn't have to create new attacks, he just needs to refine his Swordsmanship so his already established attacks become stronger. That's why Zoro was in awe at this man who had the most subtle Swordsmanship he'd ever seen. The same man who said that without subtlety, you might as well be swinging an iron bar. The same man who sits at the very Top of the Swordsman World. But for some reason, we shouldn't take HIS word on it.
From 1009 to 1036, Zoro seems to have managed to tame Enma completely, which is something that only one of the best Swordsmen who ever lived, managed to do. I'd say that's more grounds for his Rank to increase, over "He now has AdCoC" or "His skills have become more refined." But then again, it could have been a combination of multiple things that raised Zoro's rank. It's kind of hard to tell.
But until you guys can convince me that Vista is some kind of Haki God, or offer a valid explanation as to why he shares the same Sword rank as Mihawk, while not being a Haki god, outside of his Swordsmanship is just that damn good, I am not buying for a second that Zoro's Sword rank increased just because he gained AdCoC.
From 1009 to 1036, Zoro seems to have managed to tame Enma completely, which is something that only one of the best Swordsmen who ever lived, managed to do. I'd say that's more grounds for his Rank to increase, over "He now has AdCoC" or "His skills have become more refined." But then again, it could have been a combination of multiple things that raised Zoro's rank. It's kind of hard to tell.
But until you guys can convince me that Vista is some kind of Haki God, or offer a valid explanation as to why he shares the same Sword rank as Mihawk, while not being a Haki god, outside of his Swordsmanship is just that damn good, I am not buying for a second that Zoro's Sword rank increased just because he gained AdCoC.
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Why do you keep bringing up Mihawk? Zoro told Mihawk to teach him the way of the Sword and he taught him haki. He didn't even teach him about permanently black blades because Mihawk knows eventually haki( and something) will help Zoro change his black
We don't know. Its not stated what those Rank means.
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We don't know. Its not stated what those Rank means.
Yes it does, because if Zoro and Mihawk meet, and they both have Top TIer Haki, then what will determine the winner of their fight? The one who is more skilled. 
If Zoro with Top TIer Haki, and only being a Master Swordsman, fights Mihawk with top Tier Haki, who is a Great Master Swordsman, then Zoro gets demolished.
If Zoro with Top TIer Haki, and only being a Master Swordsman, fights Mihawk with top Tier Haki, who is a Great Master Swordsman, then Zoro gets demolished.