Powers & Abilities Taming Enma is not hard nor impressive

#41
How does Hitetsu saying zoro feels familiar with Enma help him tame it
Because using something familiar helps you learn faster???

If you are used to driving automatic cars and you buy a new automatic car, you will learn to use it fast, because you are familiar with it
if you are used to driving automatic cars and buy a manual, it will take you longer to learn it
 
#42
Only Zoro fanboys made it so special

Nobody tried taming Enma before or after Oden.
Retainers wouldn't do it coz it belonged to their master who gave it to his kids.

Zoro also had an advantage for using wado already

Unless they think Kid Oden >Zoro coz Kid Oden tamed and mastered Enma while Zoro is still struggling to control it fully.

Zoro isn't great as they wish
Oden is a beast...zoro is yet to surpass Young Oden then should surpass Commander Oden
So Enma ain't special. Glad you cane to that conclusion. Lmao
 

Cinera

𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖓𝖓𝖞 𝕵𝖆𝖍𝖆𝖉
#43
I'm gonna proof that the only person that ever tried Enma was Oden and Oden alone.
So to summarize:
No one besides Oden got to use Enma because it was forged to Oden as a present
No one besides Zoro got to use Enma after Oden's death
Yes, no one before or after Oden is known to have explicitly tried to tame Enma. However, the point of that panel is for the author to let us know that in Wano's recent history, no one but Oden could accomplish this feat.

If people other than Oden could accomplish the feat, then saying: "before or after only one man has tamed Enma... And that man was Kozuki Oden!!!" would be a nonsensical statement. Oda is simply letting us know that no one else in Wano's recent history was capable of the feat.

(Alternatively, you can assume others tried and simply failed).


Then we had a flashback where we see a 10 year old Oden using Enma no problem:

This shows that Enma was tamed:
at worst scenario by 10 year old Oden
at best scenario by even younger Oden (1-9yrs old)
How do you know that sword is Enma? If Hiyori and Momonosuke's birth right was reserved until they came of age, how do we know the same wasn't done for Enma?


This Ashura Doji is WEAK. He's weaker than chapter 2 Luffy who is also 17yrs old.
We know Luffy has probably the best strength growth out of anyone in the series
19 year old Luffy is currently WAY stronger than 56year old Ashura Doji.
So imagine how much stronger 17yr old Luffy is compared to 17 yr old Doji.

I'm gonna say this, Ashura Doji was as strong as kid versions of Ace, Sabo, Luffy.
Those kids were beating up grown men and giant monsters as kids, so it's a pretty fair comparison I think.
This is nonsense. 13 year old Rob Lucci was far stronger than start of his journey Luffy, yet Luffy surpassed his adult self in a few months. Saying that because current Luffy > current Asura Douji, 17 year old Luffy > 17 year old Asura Douji is stupid.


To summarize
Oden was really weak when he tamed Enma
so using/taming Enma is not impressive
Again:
  • We don't know at what age Oden tamed Enma
  • We don't know how strong Oden was when he tamed Enma.


But these 2 translations are a bit different:
  • unofficial translation says Wado is the main reason Zoro can handle Enma
  • official translation says that Zoro is familiar to using Enma is because of Wado
Enma feels familiar in Zoro's hands because he has already wielded a sword by the same swordsmith.
 

Cinera

𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖓𝖓𝖞 𝕵𝖆𝖍𝖆𝖉
#46
So you didn't read the post?
I already disproved it

"ordinary" = fodder
again, not impressive

No, he says that he would not accept it
you have no idea what reason he has for it.
this is right before the raid, maybe he thinks Zolo can't tame it?

Good, I guess?
Usopp was called amazing as well, does that mean he's strong?
Maybe it's amazing that Zolo was able not to die, so he's amazed he's not a complete fodder.

Don't try to bullshit
This is complete nonsense.

I've addressed your actual arguments in a separate post.
 

Cinera

𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖓𝖓𝖞 𝕵𝖆𝖍𝖆𝖉
#48
Saying that the scabbards could NEVER tame Enma, no matter how much they tried, is kinda weird.
Maybe they just don't want a sword that tries to drain their Haki everytime they swing it. Maybe they just feel it is shit.
Why would you put yourself this "nerf", if the sword didn't bring anything special to the table?
Just for the lol's?
Sorry, this is pretty straightforward:


You're just making excuses to save your headcanon. The author has made it very explicitly clear that in Wano's recent history only Kozuki Oden could tame Enma. Any claim that anyone else was capable of the feat is denying the manga to assuage one's headcanon.
 
#49
No it's not, there can be multiple things why Kinemon thinks that
- maybe he thinks, Zolo can't handle the sword
- Maybe it will take too long for him to tame Enma before the raid
If he thinks Zoro can't handle the sword or it will take too long to tame, then that contradicts your point about taming enma 'is not hard nor impressive'.

Did you just argue against your own point? Lol.

So not sure what you're trying to get at.
 

Doggo

To find the All Blue!
#50
Sorry, this is pretty straightforward:


You're just making excuses to save your headcanon. The author has made it very explicitly clear that in Wano's recent history only Kozuki Oden could tame Enma. Any claim that anyone else was capable of the feat is denying the manga to assuage one's headcanon.
If the scabbards tried using it and werent turned to husk, since they are all quite alive at the time, then I can assume they are capable enough to tame it if they tried for long enough time. Is it really that far off? It's not like they are fodder level. They managed to hurt Kaido, did they not? Not as much as Oden, but still they did better than Gear4 Luffy first try.
:kayneshrug:
 
#51
Kinamon said that out of kindness he will tell him not to use the sword, Implying that using the sword is too dangerous. If it wasnt hard to tame kinamon wouldnt said that. Added to the fact they said nobody was able to tame it for 10 years. The answer is pretty straight forward.
Post automatically merged:

Where's the speculation?

Here scabbards are impressed that Strawhats beat fodder
does that mean scabbards couldn't beat those fodder?


Story has implied that shit multiple times
but it's from fodder perspective

they hyped sea kings, just for Luffy to 1 shot. The hype always comes from fodder perspective
The say in the same panel that this was the first big challenge they were going to face, but the straw hat wiped them with quickness and ease. The scabbards were surprised they got wiped so quick and easily not just because they got beat.
 
#52
Yes, no one before or after Oden is known to have explicitly tried to tame Enma
yes
However, the point of that panel is for the author to let us know that in Wano's recent history, no one but Oden could accomplish this feat
Again, Enma was forged and gifted to a child Oden
who else besides Oden could've used the sword....???

And IF someone used it, we know there was not a single swordsman in Wano that is impressive besides Oden
If people other than Oden could accomplish the feat, then saying: "before or after only one man has tamed Enma... And that man was Kozuki Oden!!!" would be a nonsensical statement
Because the sentence doesn't contradict anything
I already proved how Oden left his swords to his children, so no one else besides Hiyori and Momo could've used them.
So "after Oden" statement is already disproven.

Do you agree that no one after Oden's death tried the swords? Because Oden left the swords ONLY to his children and Hitetsu confirmed he was waiting 20yrs to return the swords.
How do you know that sword is Enma?
Dude you for real?
By looking at the panel...
If Hiyori and Momonosuke's birth right was reserved until they came of age, how do we know the same wasn't done for Enma?
The hell are you talking about?

Mom and Hiyori can get the swords anytime they want.
Hitetsu tried to give Habakiri to Momo and he's 8.
13 year old Rob Lucci was far stronger than start of his journey
based on what?
We don't know at what age Oden tamed Enma
We know that he was 10years old when he was using Enma
so he tamed when he was AT LEAST 10yrs old
We don't know how strong Oden was when he tamed Enma
FAR weaker than during the duel he had with Doji.
Enma feels familiar in Zoro's hands because he has already wielded a sword by the same swordsmith
Okay?
That still doesn't change that Wado helps Zolo tame Enma
 

Cinera

𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖓𝖓𝖞 𝕵𝖆𝖍𝖆𝖉
#53
If the scabbards tried using it and werent turned to husk, since they are all quite alive at the time, then I can assume they are capable enough to tame it if they tried for long enough time. Is it really that far off? It's not like they are fodder level. They managed to hurt Kaido, did they not? Not as much as Oden, but still they did better than Gear4 Luffy first try.
:kayneshrug:
The author tells us through Hitetsu that they cannot do it. Again, you're denying the manga to try and save your headcanon. This would be like trying to explain why Rayleigh secretly has a devil fruit even though we know he swam across the Calm Belt. If your headcanon disagrees with the manga, you should abandon it. You shouldn't contort the manga to satisfy your headcanon.

Manga canon is that in Wano's recent history, only Oden could tame Enma.
 
#54
The author tells us through Hitetsu that they cannot do it. Again, you're denying the manga to try and save your headcanon. This would be like trying to explain why Rayleigh secretly has a devil fruit even though we know he swam across the Calm Belt. If your headcanon disagrees with the manga, you should abandon it. You shouldn't contort the manga to satisfy your headcanon.

Manga canon is that in Wano's recent history, only Oden could tame Enma.
Rayleigh is OP. Nuff Said.
 
#55
Kinamon said that out of kindness he will tell him not to use the sword, Implying that using the sword is too dangerous. If it wasnt hard to tame kinamon wouldnt said that. Added to the fact they said nobody was able to tame it for 10 years. The answer is pretty straight forward.
Post automatically merged:


The say in the same panel that this was the first big challenge they were going to face, but the straw hat wiped them with quickness and ease. The scabbards were surprised they got wiped so quick and easily not just because they got beat.
Kinemon reacts this way to them beating a fodder
WAY more reaction than with Enma

does that mean Kinemon wouldn't be able to beat fodder?
He wouldn't one shot them either?

Is beating fodder more impressive than taming Enma?
 
K

KAIDO D. STRONGER

#56
Not really! The key point here is in the sentence that says: If you were not strong enough, you would have died ... You need to be strong to tame enma, an ordinary SAMURAI would not be successful. It is said: "This sword generates unnecessarily large strikes, if you were a normal swordsman ... You would have all your energy drained and would collapse immediately" The point is that we either have a hole in the script caused by the author ODA, for ODEN he is using a sword that drains / sucks, his energy immediately or KID ODEN was stronger than ZORO. there are other justifications ...

1st Oden did not have HAKI as a child, from the moment he developed and was constantly evolving his haki, the sword began to drain more and more large amounts of haki from the user and keep it to himself, and this is consistent with the carrier's evolution, AUGE ODEN enma dried zoro's arm because that amount of HAKI was something she already absorbed from the old user to increase the strength of the blow and there are other scenarios that I won't talk about, fuck that sword.


Kaido is the strongest of all time, and to warn you that I won't correct English mistakes, this shitty comment goes wrong.
 

Doggo

To find the All Blue!
#57
The author tells us through Hitetsu that they cannot do it. Again, you're denying the manga to try and save your headcanon. This would be like trying to explain why Rayleigh secretly has a devil fruit even though we know he swam across the Calm Belt. If your headcanon disagrees with the manga, you should abandon it. You shouldn't contort the manga to satisfy your headcanon.

Manga canon is that in Wano's recent history, only Oden could tame Enma.
Manga canon is that Enma was forged for Oden.
Oden died.
sword was kept for 20 years.
Enma was passed to Zoro.
At that time, only person to tame Enma was Oden, because only person to wield Enma was Oden.
Simple as that.
 
#58
T
The author tells us through Hitetsu that they cannot do it. Again, you're denying the manga to try and save your headcanon. This would be like trying to explain why Rayleigh secretly has a devil fruit even though we know he swam across the Calm Belt. If your headcanon disagrees with the manga, you should abandon it. You shouldn't contort the manga to satisfy your headcanon.

Manga canon is that in Wano's recent history, only Oden could tame Enma.
This is the only right answer.
Kinamon clearly says in the manga that he doesnt think Zoro shoould use the sword and that he told him that out of kindness, out of concern which means he thinks its too dangerous for a person to use it. He was also told nobody could tame it for 10 years, If nobody tried to tame it for 10 years they would just say something like nobody dared to touch for 10 years but they used the words able to tame because people tried and failed.

Going against this is going against the manga itself.
 
K

KAIDO D. STRONGER

#60
Well, to complete my comment above, you could ask yourself what is a common swordsman too, right, my point would soon be refuted, I believe that none of the sheaths are common ... I could defend Zoro more anyway ...
kaido is the strongest of all time.
 
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