The baiting Room
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WG ain't bounty. That's supernova or super rookie. Worst Generation is a specific group of pirates stated to be most prominent among rookies- these are the group of pirates portrayed and hyped as leaders of new generation. Blackbeard is part of WG and he had 0 bounty at the time. It's funny that you debate portrayal but don't even have knowledge of it.
It's a portrayal. It shows that while Zoro and Sanji are main pillar of support, Zoro will always be the one that stands last. The right hand.
Sanji bickering over who catches bigger dinosaur has nothing to do with power, either, but we use that as portrayal for them being standing out, don't we? Way to be a A-grade hypocrite.
I said 8/10 times. Again, ignoring entire manga for the sake of just one or two match-ups? And then you talk about pOrTrayAl. Is Zoro = Luffy based off of just Whiskey Peak brawl and ignoring rest of the manga, too? I'm not even going to bother debating Kaku vs Jyabura because you clearly just stick to one example and ignore everything else that happens.
Is Mr.1 not >> Mr.2? Both were put in entirely different sections in ID. One section apart; same as Crocodile and Mr.1
Is Ohms, the strongest priest, not >> Satori, the third strongest?
Is Ryuma not >> Absalom?
It's portrayal that sets him apart. Much like how Zoro/Sanji have many parallels that are irrelevant to power but you guys use it for scaling (i.e Wings). And no, Sanji will not get it. If you think he will, good for you, but don't debate head-canons.
Thank for not denying VC and agreeing Zoro is the one who acts like a First Mate, and is strongest after Luffy, just as the VC said.
P.S Black Maria never called him "number 2", and Queen's statement is vague. Could be for Zoro, as well, and there's no way to prove otherwise.
Did I say Zoro shitstomps?
He's just clear-cut stronger. Not comparable- not near equal, stronger. I have no issue with sensible Sanji fans (such as Kuro Ashi) who believe Sanji can push Zoro to high-diff or whatever. But pretending that it isn't resulting in a 10/10 Zoro win is just shitting yourself.
I like you blatantly ignored all the parallels of rivals being Luffy/Zoro mirrors lol. And then you use stuff like Cabaji/Mohji or something. Way to just neglect everything that doesn't fit your agenda.
Garp/Bogard, Coby/Helmeppo, Smoker/Tashigi, Kidd/Killer, Gold/Silver/Copper. It's clear how the parallels go.
You know your debate is non-existent when you have to ignore literally everything that happens in manga for the sake of spam bringing up the same Kaku/Jyabura statement over and over and over again- and the sad part is? Doriki isn't even power-level. It's literally just physical strength and nothing more, as Jyabura said
It's a portrayal. It shows that while Zoro and Sanji are main pillar of support, Zoro will always be the one that stands last. The right hand.
Sanji bickering over who catches bigger dinosaur has nothing to do with power, either, but we use that as portrayal for them being standing out, don't we? Way to be a A-grade hypocrite.
I said 8/10 times. Again, ignoring entire manga for the sake of just one or two match-ups? And then you talk about pOrTrayAl. Is Zoro = Luffy based off of just Whiskey Peak brawl and ignoring rest of the manga, too? I'm not even going to bother debating Kaku vs Jyabura because you clearly just stick to one example and ignore everything else that happens.
Is Mr.1 not >> Mr.2? Both were put in entirely different sections in ID. One section apart; same as Crocodile and Mr.1
Is Ohms, the strongest priest, not >> Satori, the third strongest?
Is Ryuma not >> Absalom?
It's portrayal that sets him apart. Much like how Zoro/Sanji have many parallels that are irrelevant to power but you guys use it for scaling (i.e Wings). And no, Sanji will not get it. If you think he will, good for you, but don't debate head-canons.
Thank for not denying VC and agreeing Zoro is the one who acts like a First Mate, and is strongest after Luffy, just as the VC said.
P.S Black Maria never called him "number 2", and Queen's statement is vague. Could be for Zoro, as well, and there's no way to prove otherwise.
Did I say Zoro shitstomps?
He's just clear-cut stronger. Not comparable- not near equal, stronger. I have no issue with sensible Sanji fans (such as Kuro Ashi) who believe Sanji can push Zoro to high-diff or whatever. But pretending that it isn't resulting in a 10/10 Zoro win is just shitting yourself.
I like you blatantly ignored all the parallels of rivals being Luffy/Zoro mirrors lol. And then you use stuff like Cabaji/Mohji or something. Way to just neglect everything that doesn't fit your agenda.
Garp/Bogard, Coby/Helmeppo, Smoker/Tashigi, Kidd/Killer, Gold/Silver/Copper. It's clear how the parallels go.
You know your debate is non-existent when you have to ignore literally everything that happens in manga for the sake of spam bringing up the same Kaku/Jyabura statement over and over and over again- and the sad part is? Doriki isn't even power-level. It's literally just physical strength and nothing more, as Jyabura said
it is not a question of bounty. it is about portrayal. oda chose to put zoro on that pedestal and not sanji.
again this isnt linked towards their strength, the point shanal was trying to make is that oda chose zoro to take that pain and not for zoro and sanji to share it. again, portrayal on who the first mate is.
the fact that you gotta go all the way back to pretimeskip to justify this. zoro fought at the rooftop amongst the strongest rookies at the raid. sanji didnt. again, portrayal.
the assumption is valid since sanji doesnt have the same amount of buildup/foreshadowing that zoro did.
black maria and queen called him the second largest bounty of the crew, get your facts straight. and oda mentioned the wings of the pirate king in an SBS waaaay before so if anything this is a callback to it.
the difference between luffy - zoro - sanji is always varied from arc to arc. from pre time skip till now. in this arc, there are a fuckton of parallels which put zoro closer to luffy than sanji. im sure when the series reach its end, the dynamic would become luffy > zoro > sanji - the way it has almost always been. but yall fail to recognize that in this arc, zoro is portrayed and has feats which put him on the level or closer to luffy than to sanji.
again this isnt linked towards their strength, the point shanal was trying to make is that oda chose zoro to take that pain and not for zoro and sanji to share it. again, portrayal on who the first mate is.
the fact that you gotta go all the way back to pretimeskip to justify this. zoro fought at the rooftop amongst the strongest rookies at the raid. sanji didnt. again, portrayal.
the assumption is valid since sanji doesnt have the same amount of buildup/foreshadowing that zoro did.
black maria and queen called him the second largest bounty of the crew, get your facts straight. and oda mentioned the wings of the pirate king in an SBS waaaay before so if anything this is a callback to it.
the difference between luffy - zoro - sanji is always varied from arc to arc. from pre time skip till now. in this arc, there are a fuckton of parallels which put zoro closer to luffy than sanji. im sure when the series reach its end, the dynamic would become luffy > zoro > sanji - the way it has almost always been. but yall fail to recognize that in this arc, zoro is portrayed and has feats which put him on the level or closer to luffy than to sanji.
-The Supernovas are also labeled as the WG and they were so back in Sabaody because they crossed the 100 mil threshold which Sanji didn't because alot of what he did went unnoticed
- You talk about head canon yet force a >> in between Zoro and Sanjis opponents which in fact comes from your own headcanon, the fact is the only time Oda gave us actual numbers was in EL and if he wanted to place Zoro on a different level he could have easily given him an opponent with a 3500+ doriki just as he gave Luffy
- I am saying that BM and Queen came to conclusions based off of limited info which Barto and Urouge did aswell..... Barto literally added a "by me" at the end and Urouge didn't ever use the word VC or firstmate
- Zoro fought Kaido.....and so did Killer who is facing Hawkins now, while Zoro is on his way to face King who has been placed in the same duo dynamic with Queen as Kaku was with Jyabura
- Of course Luffy and Zoro have parallels, they have the relationship of Captain and his first crew member but I don't understand how this puts Zoro WAY above Sanji, remember I agree Zoro is stronger than Sanji but I don't agree that they are not comparable
- Zoro taking Luffys pain makes a ton of sense since he is the first to join Luffy and offered himself first, I am not denying the gravitas of that moment by saying that Zoro and Sanji are equally as important to Luffy while also being placed close to each other in combat ability, these statement are not contradictory
- You talk about head canon yet force a >> in between Zoro and Sanjis opponents which in fact comes from your own headcanon, the fact is the only time Oda gave us actual numbers was in EL and if he wanted to place Zoro on a different level he could have easily given him an opponent with a 3500+ doriki just as he gave Luffy
- I am saying that BM and Queen came to conclusions based off of limited info which Barto and Urouge did aswell..... Barto literally added a "by me" at the end and Urouge didn't ever use the word VC or firstmate
- Zoro fought Kaido.....and so did Killer who is facing Hawkins now, while Zoro is on his way to face King who has been placed in the same duo dynamic with Queen as Kaku was with Jyabura
- Of course Luffy and Zoro have parallels, they have the relationship of Captain and his first crew member but I don't understand how this puts Zoro WAY above Sanji, remember I agree Zoro is stronger than Sanji but I don't agree that they are not comparable
- Zoro taking Luffys pain makes a ton of sense since he is the first to join Luffy and offered himself first, I am not denying the gravitas of that moment by saying that Zoro and Sanji are equally as important to Luffy while also being placed close to each other in combat ability, these statement are not contradictory
Quit ignoring portrayal. Oda shoved Blackbeard into WG and he had no bounty. He could've put Sanji in, too, but he didn't. They're the leaders and spearheads of new era. It has little to do with bounty ultimately in terms of portrayal. Sanji just isn't included.
Mr.1 put in entirely different level than Mr.2 in IE. Ohms literally called strongest priest and Satori third strongest... idk what to tell you? That's as canonical as it gets. Doriki are just measurement of physical strength, not straight-up overall power:
BM said Sanji as second highest bounty and Queen's statement is vague and we don't know if we refers to Zoro or Sanji. So, no, noone called Sanji the "second".
^ enlarging it because you can't read, or you refuse to read, or you just ignore what I say. Next time you quote me, do so point-by-point please. It's not worth it if you're just going to straight out pretend something I said doesn't exist and then repeat same stuff.
Never said that, m8. Difference between way above and comparable. Comparable are likes of Roger and WB. Way above is comparing Mr.1 to Mr.3. Sanji is just in-between.
Zoro is just stronger. Clear-cut stronger.
Lmao-wat. It has nothing to do with who joined first. What a shit-tier statement to belittle someone.
It just shows Zoro's prominence and portrayal with respect to crew and Luffy. It also shows same for Zoro and Sanji; they're the ones who remained standing at the end, as Luffy's main two pillars of support. But Zoro, the biggest pillar, takes all the pain. He'll always be ahead.
You're going to take Zoro and Sanji being last men standing as the portrayal of their prominence, but when it comes to Zoro being the one taking the pain eventually it's suddenly about none of that and is about who joined first? LOL?
Again, portrayal. I'm not even bringing up feats- but now you're just straight up denying portrayal for the sake of your agenda. No, honey...
You know the sad part? Even if Zoro fights King- it'll still mean that Zoro fought an opponent at least somewhat stronger than Sanji, all while getting CoC, fighting Kaido, scarring him for life, and having significantly more portrayals overall.
Even that, at the end of the day, puts Zoro > Sanji in a clear-cut manner. And if Zoro doesn't use Asura vs King? Straight up blatant.
Comparable is Roger and WB. Akainu and Aokiji.
Zoro and Sanji are more like Rayleigh and Gaban. Gaban might be very strong, but Rayleigh will always be stronger with no vagueness.
Mr.1 put in entirely different level than Mr.2 in IE. Ohms literally called strongest priest and Satori third strongest... idk what to tell you? That's as canonical as it gets. Doriki are just measurement of physical strength, not straight-up overall power:
BM said Sanji as second highest bounty and Queen's statement is vague and we don't know if we refers to Zoro or Sanji. So, no, noone called Sanji the "second".
^ enlarging it because you can't read, or you refuse to read, or you just ignore what I say. Next time you quote me, do so point-by-point please. It's not worth it if you're just going to straight out pretend something I said doesn't exist and then repeat same stuff.
Never said that, m8. Difference between way above and comparable. Comparable are likes of Roger and WB. Way above is comparing Mr.1 to Mr.3. Sanji is just in-between.
Zoro is just stronger. Clear-cut stronger.
Lmao-wat. It has nothing to do with who joined first. What a shit-tier statement to belittle someone.
It just shows Zoro's prominence and portrayal with respect to crew and Luffy. It also shows same for Zoro and Sanji; they're the ones who remained standing at the end, as Luffy's main two pillars of support. But Zoro, the biggest pillar, takes all the pain. He'll always be ahead.
You're going to take Zoro and Sanji being last men standing as the portrayal of their prominence, but when it comes to Zoro being the one taking the pain eventually it's suddenly about none of that and is about who joined first? LOL?
Again, portrayal. I'm not even bringing up feats- but now you're just straight up denying portrayal for the sake of your agenda. No, honey...
You know the sad part? Even if Zoro fights King- it'll still mean that Zoro fought an opponent at least somewhat stronger than Sanji, all while getting CoC, fighting Kaido, scarring him for life, and having significantly more portrayals overall.
Even that, at the end of the day, puts Zoro > Sanji in a clear-cut manner. And if Zoro doesn't use Asura vs King? Straight up blatant.
Comparable is Roger and WB. Akainu and Aokiji.
Zoro and Sanji are more like Rayleigh and Gaban. Gaban might be very strong, but Rayleigh will always be stronger with no vagueness.
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if we're talking about this arc, i'd say that there is a significant difference between zoro and sanji.
i would scale a fresh, fit zoro alongside the likes of marco and katakuri (the highest rung of yc1) based on what he did at the rooftop and id scale base sanji at the top rung of yc3 and depending on his fight against queen, id scale rs sanji at the upper range of yc2 or at the lower range of yc1.
so if we're scaling them, i'd say zoro ~ marco / katakuri while base sanji ~ jack, raid suit sanji ~ queen as of now while we're yet to see the upper limits of the raid suit which im sure oda will explore in this fight.
i would scale a fresh, fit zoro alongside the likes of marco and katakuri (the highest rung of yc1) based on what he did at the rooftop and id scale base sanji at the top rung of yc3 and depending on his fight against queen, id scale rs sanji at the upper range of yc2 or at the lower range of yc1.
so if we're scaling them, i'd say zoro ~ marco / katakuri while base sanji ~ jack, raid suit sanji ~ queen as of now while we're yet to see the upper limits of the raid suit which im sure oda will explore in this fight.
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