Powers & Abilities The big issue with CoC

[Lunaria]

Is that once a character gets it, nearly all his opponents have to possess it too. That's probably why Oda chose to give CoC to characters like Chinjao, even giving it to Doflamingo or Katakuri makes little sense in retrospect. But we're at a point where Luffy's opponents need CoC to hype them because Luffy has it himself. And now it could become true for Zoro as well, of course Mihawk was always going to get CoC but Shiryu will most likely get it too and maybe even King as well.

I know there are exceptions like Caesar or Cracker but those fights were treated like gag fights and Luffy quickly finished them off once he found the way to deal with their tricks.

The issue is even bigger now that CoC coating is a thing, much bigger. How many characters will need it now to be taken seriously ?

 

[zzShinichi]

Yeah this is the main reason I think King is gonna get COC as well
ODa loves COC-clash
Of course there's exception like the Caesar or Cracker but Post timeskip, Oda almost entirely put one Conqueror against Another in a 1v1
Is it an issue? Maybe. But if it gives my fav a chance to do something as epic as Conqueror Clash then i don't mind

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Luffy vs Katakuri was also a fight of trickery but CoC was still included in the fight.

 

[JoNdule]

Is that once a character gets it, nearly all his opponents have to possess it too. That's probably why Oda chose to give CoC to characters like Chinjao, even giving it to Doflamingo or Katakuri makes little sense in retrospect. But we're at a point where Luffy's opponents need CoC to hype them because Luffy has it himself. And now it could become true for Zoro as well, of course Mihawk was always going to get CoC but Shiryu will most likely get it too and maybe even King as well.

I know there are exceptions like Caesar or Cracker but those fights were treated like gag fights and Luffy quickly finished them off once he found the way to deal with their tricks.

The issue is even bigger now that CoC coating is a thing, much bigger. How many characters will need it now to be taken seriously ?

Except he didn't finish Cracker quickly off despite knowing his weakness
Cracker doesn't have any trick btw.

Chinjao having CoC makes sense since he rivaled Garp & Roger.

Mihawk isn't fighting Zoro.
Shiryu will not have CoC (perhaps would)

Zoro's opponents aren't needed to have CoC! Zoro isn't becoming PK
Only Pirate King gets to surpass Top Conquerors cause he has to be the biggest Conquerors!
That's why Imu, Akainu and Teach will have CoC while Fuji & Shiryu might not despite facing Zoro who has CoC

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Not always, the CoC clash is just a visual way for Oda to show a clash of wills between two enemies.

Not every fight has to be a clash of will, honestly, I feel very few do. This is why Luffy vs Hody, Luffy vs Caesar, Luffy vs Cracker didn’t have a CoC clash, because the fight didn’t involve a clash of wills.

For example Zoro vs King doesn’t involve Zoros will so I doubt we’ll get a CoC clash. Honestly the only enemies Zoro needs that use CoC would be his WSS fight and his admiral fight.

 

[Reborn]

Is that once a character gets it, nearly all his opponents have to possess it too. That's probably why Oda chose to give CoC to characters like Chinjao, even giving it to Doflamingo or Katakuri makes little sense in retrospect. But we're at a point where Luffy's opponents need CoC to hype them because Luffy has it himself. And now it could become true for Zoro as well, of course Mihawk was always going to get CoC but Shiryu will most likely get it too and maybe even King as well.

I know there are exceptions like Caesar or Cracker but those fights were treated like gag fights and Luffy quickly finished them off once he found the way to deal with their tricks.

The issue is even bigger now that CoC coating is a thing, much bigger. How many characters will need it now to be taken seriously ?

Yeah this is the main reason I think King is gonna get COC as well
ODa loves COC-clash
Of course there's exception like the Caesar or Cracker but Post timeskip, Oda almost entirely put one Conqueror against Another in a 1v1
Is it an issue? Maybe. But if it gives my fav a chance to do something as epic as Conqueror Clash then i don't mind

Except he didn't finish Cracker quickly off despite knowing his weakness
Cracker doesn't have any trick btw.

Chinjao having CoC makes sense since he rivaled Garp & Roger.

Mihawk isn't fighting Zoro.
Shiryu will not have CoC (perhaps would)

Zoro's opponents aren't needed to have CoC! Zoro isn't becoming PK
Only Pirate King gets to surpass Top Conquerors cause he has to be the biggest Conquerors!
That's why Imu, Akainu and Teach will have CoC while Fuji & Shiryu might not despite facing Zoro who has CoC

There are many with CoC haki in NW.


Oda has never clarified what exactly constitute Kingly Ambitions. We have to deduce it from hints scattered throughout the story.


But, Luffy and zoro are the MC with CoC and from now onwards we are moving closer and closer to end game with top class opponents so their opponents would most likely have CoC haki.


I mean it's only through Luffy and Zoro and their fights with other top class characters that oda can flesh out CoC.




And, yes King will have CoC haki. Even his name has King in it.

 

[JoNdule]

Not always, the CoC clash is just a visual way for Oda to show a clash of wills between two enemies.

Not every fight has to be a clash of will, honestly, I feel very few do. This is why Luffy vs Hody, Luffy vs Caesar, Luffy vs Cracker didn’t have a CoC clash, because the fight didn’t involve a clash of wills.

For example Zoro vs King doesn’t involve Zoros will so I doubt we’ll get a CoC clash. Honestly the only enemies Zoro needs that use CoC would be his WSS fight and his admiral fight.

This^
There's no battle of Willpower between King and Zoro
Zoro had more to impose his will on Enma than trying to prove King wrong.

There are many with CoC haki in NW.


Oda has never clarified what exactly constitute Kingly Ambitions. We have to deduce it from hints scattered throughout the story.


But, Luffy and zoro are the MC with CoC and from now onwards we are moving closer and closer to end game with top class opponents so their opponents would most likely have CoC haki.


I mean it's only through Luffy and Zoro and their fights with other top class characters that oda can flesh out CoC.




And, yes King will have CoC haki. Even his name has King in it.

There are many CoC in NW doesn't mean Zoro gets to take down CoC users like Luffy does
Only person Zoro gets to beat who will have CoC are Perhaps Gorosei and Fuji

King seriously I don't see how he'll have it when Marco whom King parallels doesn't have it and Queen who rivals him lacks it too.
Oda didn't even give King any ideology of his own. What is his will or resolve? Just being a Kaido's fanboy?
Shiryu might or might not.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

After king, zoro will be fighting top tier opponents.

Shiryu, Admirals, gorosei, mihawk

those guys should have CoC coating

 

[Reborn]

This^
There's no battle of Willpower between King and Zoro
Zoro had more to impose his will on Enma than trying to prove King wrong.


There are many CoC in NW doesn't mean Zoro gets to take down CoC users like Luffy does
Only person Zoro gets to beat who will have CoC are Perhaps Gorosei and Fuji

King seriously I don't see how they'll have when Marco whom King parallels doesn't have it and Queen who rivals him lacks it too.
Oda didn't even give King any ideology of his own. What is his will or resolve? Just being a Kaido's fanboy?
Shiryu might or might not.

Have you seen King's flashback to say king doesn't have ideology or Kingly ambitions?


And, queen isn't King's rival just because they have been shown bickering. And, to add to this, a character doesn't go around hyping his rival like queen did in his fight with sanji.


And, marco not having it has no correlation with king havint it or not.


King is Lunarian - Ancient God race. His name has King in it. He didn't faze seeing Zoro AdCoC and even commented on it as if he, himself has it.


Path of being PK is tougher because it involves knowing true history, reaching to laugh tale, having strong crew and allies, having territory and so on.


It doesnt mean being PK indicates you are tiers above another.


Zoro will have opponents with CoC because anything less than it would mean no challenge for Zoro now

 

[Julius]

And, to add to this, a character doesn't go around hyping his rival like queen did in his fight with sanji.

Nah, thats no big deal, they are in the same crew for years, much before Jack and the Tobiroppo.
Zoro and Sanji hype each other sometimes, and they are rivals, Queen is just a super scientist that knows too much about stuff no one else knows, similarly to how Big Mom hyped Kaido, but these 2 situations were also about mocking Zoro and Kaido's enemies by calling them weak to win actually their fights

 

[Lunaria]

Not always, the CoC clash is just a visual way for Oda to show a clash of wills between two enemies.

Not every fight has to be a clash of will, honestly, I feel very few do. This is why Luffy vs Hody, Luffy vs Caesar, Luffy vs Cracker didn’t have a CoC clash, because the fight didn’t involve a clash of wills.

For example Zoro vs King doesn’t involve Zoros will so I doubt we’ll get a CoC clash. Honestly the only enemies Zoro needs that use CoC would be his WSS fight and his admiral fight.

"Clash of will" is a very subjective notion. Also, I wouldn't say Zoro's will counts for nothing in a fight in which he unlocked CoC and reminded us of the promise he made to Kuina and Luffy.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

"Clash of will" is a very subjective notion. Also, I wouldn't say Zoro's will counts for nothing in a fight in which he unlocked CoC and reminded us of the promise he made to Kuina and Luffy.

I’m saying King isn’t going to challenge what empowers Zoros will.

King isn’t a swordsman, as such King isn’t fighting him for any reason other just for his own fun. It’s not that Zoros will is nothing, it’s that King isn’t challenging Zoros will right now

 

[sanjikun]

Is that once a character gets it, nearly all his opponents have to possess it too. That's probably why Oda chose to give CoC to characters like Chinjao, even giving it to Doflamingo or Katakuri makes little sense in retrospect. But we're at a point where Luffy's opponents need CoC to hype them because Luffy has it himself. And now it could become true for Zoro as well, of course Mihawk was always going to get CoC but Shiryu will most likely get it too and maybe even King as well.

I know there are exceptions like Caesar or Cracker but those fights were treated like gag fights and Luffy quickly finished them off once he found the way to deal with their tricks.

The issue is even bigger now that CoC coating is a thing, much bigger. How many characters will need it now to be taken seriously ?

How does giving CoC to Doflamingo make little sense? The entire reason his entire family formed was because they witnessed that. It's central to his character.

This is the Haki associated with "Kings". The first confirmed user we learned about was Boa Hancock.

 

[Lunaria]

I’m saying King isn’t going to challenge what empowers Zoros will.

King isn’t a swordsman, as such King isn’t fighting him for any reason other just for his own fun. It’s not that Zoros will is nothing, it’s that King isn’t challenging Zoros will right now

CoC isn't just a matter of will anymore, it became a power level tool now. Basically, every top tier needs to have it to justify their strength.

By the way, it's something I've never taken into consideration when talking about Sanji getting CoC before, it never came to my mind. But now I realize his opponents would need CoC if he has it too and I can't see someone like Pizarro (or any other BBP outside of Shiryu and obviously BB himself) getting it.

We don't know if Admirals have it but Sanji isn't guaranteed to fight one anyway. Kizaru didn't care about Fleet Admiral position so he's not guaranteed to have CoC and I don't think any other Admiral could be his opponent. It's less of an issue in Sanji's case because his chances of getting advanced CoC are next to zero but it's still an issue even if we only talk about basic CoC. Unless he doesn't get it before EoS.
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How does giving CoC to Doflamingo make little sense? The entire reason his entire family formed was because they witnessed that. It's central to his character.

This is the Haki associated with "Kings". The first confirmed user we learned about was Boa Hancock.

Yes, yes, of course his flashback justifies perfectly why he has it. When I was making this thread and wrote this about Doflamingo, I told myself "sanjikun is 100% gonna come and protest to defend Doflamingo".

I meant it makes little sense to give him because of what he represents in the grand scheme of things. He's not relevant in terms of strength if you compare him to Yonko or top tiers in general. Also he was shit scared of Kaido and acted like his lackey, which is weird coming from a CoC user.

 

[Doggo]

honestly? my problems with "CoC" are almost irrelevant.
"weaponized" CoC, though? Lazy ass mandatory power creep. Especially with that shitty "only a handful of the very strongest can use it".
Empty grandiose words thrown there to hype characters.
"Logias are invincible">>>>>CoA
"CP9 is the strongest cipher pol">>>>>cp0
"Katakuri is invincible">>>>only one so far that has CoC and lost to a PIS fight.
"Kaido is the strongest creature">>>>kekw Imu the Illuminati

Now it's gonna be: "this character has CoC? big deal. Can he use adv. CoC at least? if not, just useless fodder control power"

 

[JoNdule]

Have you seen King's flashback to say king doesn't have ideology or Kingly ambitions?


And, queen isn't King's rival just because they have been shown bickering. And, to add to this, a character doesn't go around hyping his rival like queen did in his fight with sanji.


And, marco not having it has no correlation with king havint it or not.


King is Lunarian - Ancient God race. His name has King in it. He didn't faze seeing Zoro AdCoC and even commented on it as if he, himself has it.


Path of being PK is tougher because it involves knowing true history, reaching to laugh tale, having strong crew and allies, having territory and so on.


It doesnt mean being PK indicates you are tiers above another.


Zoro will have opponents with CoC because anything less than it would mean no challenge for Zoro now

Lunarian what? Lol
Being lunarian doesn't prove King has CoC

You don't need a flashback to know someone has his own will /ambition he wanna maintain or has CoC

Hyping someone doesn't always mean you aren't rivals or equals
Silly logic!

 

[Franosuke]

Hyping someone doesn't mean you aren't rivals or equals

But what does make them rivals or equals? King is already confirmed to be the lead All-Star and 2nd strongest member of the Beast Pirates in the Vivre Cards. King and Queen also don't "compete" against each other for anything, they simple hate each other. A rivalry implies competition in a similar field or for the same goal/achievement

 

[Gol D. Roger]

There are less than 20 confirmed COC users in a world that hosts billions, and the number is not likely to exceed 30. COC is said to be possessed by one in a million. So if we're to assume OP world has a billion population, they can have 1000 COC users. That shit is pretty rare. It's just that we're at that stage of the manga where we're dealing with the very best of the world most of whom are COC users, which is why it looks more common than not.

Lunarian what? Lol
Being lunarian doesn't prove King has CoC

You don't need a flashback to know someone has his own will /ambition he wanna maintain or has CoC

Hyping someone doesn't mean you aren't rivals or equals
Silly logic!

Yet standing side by side makes them equals.

 

[Lunaria]

There are less than 20 confirmed COC users in a world that hosts billions, and the number is not likely to exceed 30. COC is said to be possessed by one in a million. So if we're to assume OP world has a billion population, they can have 1000 COC users. That shit is pretty rare. It's just that we're at that stage of the manga where we're dealing with the very best of the world most of whom are COC users, which is why it looks more common than not.




Yet standing side by side makes them equals.

I know, that's exactly what I said once in a thread complaining about CoC getting too common. But the issue is it became the automatic answer to hype a character without too much effort. It's like it's the only thing that matters now.

 

[Julius]

honestly? my problems with "CoC" are almost irrelevant.
"weaponized" CoC, though? Lazy ass mandatory power creep. Especially with that shitty "only a handful of the very strongest can use it".
Empty grandiose words thrown there to hype characters.
"Logias are invincible">>>>>CoA
"CP9 is the strongest cipher pol">>>>>cp0
"Katakuri is invincible">>>>only one so far that has CoC and lost to a PIS fight.
"Kaido is the strongest creature">>>>kekw Imu the Illuminati

Now it's gonna be: "this character has CoC? big deal. Can he use adv. CoC at least? if not, just useless fodder control power"

You just said everything


And for those worried for Sanji's position because he has no CoC

First off, Sanji is one of the wings, even if Yamato joins the crew, she isn't guarantee to be above Sanji in strength and authority by any means. So in the best case scenario for Yamato, she is equal to Sanji, even if he doesn't get CoC and Adv.CoC