Powers & Abilities The final “Sword Skill” thread

[Impact]

Is Zoro with a Devil Fruit Sword using Kaido's Devil Fruit still a swordsman?

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Hm, he didn’t fight Nusjuro, Ryokugyu, or Fujitora—none of the famous and well-known top-tier swordsmen. The only person he ever fought was Shanks, and that was before Shanks lost his arm. Plus, Shanks only became a Yonko six years ago. We don’t even know the outcome of their fights! Even if we assume Mihawk defeated Shanks before he became a Yonko, does that mean Shanks was the previous WSS, and that’s why Mihawk holds the title now? If so, how did Shanks earn the WSS title in the first place? And if he truly was the previous WSS before becoming a Yonko, doesn’t that somewhat diminish the value of the title?

We don’t know when Mihawk went on this journey, we don’t know when Mihawk made his sword black and we don’t know who he fought.

what we do know is that he has in fact gone around the world, even up to Mariejois and he genuinely believes he’s stronger than every swordsman he’s ever seen or heard of.

and his Vivre card confirms that He is ACTUALLY the Strongest swordsman in the world.

Is Zoro with a Devil Fruit Sword using Kaido's Devil Fruit still a swordsman?

He is. The fact that Oda himself was asked what is an appropriate DF for Zoro and he chose this exact scenario, that means he thinks Zoro would still be a swordsman

And of course that means shamrock with his Cerberus sword is also a swordsman

 

[Rumble]

Named sword
Sword skills
Black blades
Advanced CoA
Advanced CoC

All of them botched concepts.

 

[Ven437]

Prove he doesn’t

Prove Mihawk isn’t a fraud

Swordmanship is a fighting style. If she fights like a swordsman then she is

So no canon statement that BM is a swordsman. Got it

 

[Rootbeer]

It’s correlations vs Causation. Enma has a strong personality and it has the haki sucking ability. One doesn’t cause the other. It just so happens that one sword has both things at the same time coincidentally

Kozaburo actually never explains where the haki sucking ability came from.

Whatever mental gymnastic that was.. Enma's personality is sucking Haki out of the user, Kinemon's Blades ability is creating fire and canceling explosions..

Do you remember what happened immediately after Zoro cut the cliff side? HE STOPPED THE HAKI SUCK.

From then onwards, Zoro was fully capable of stopping Enma from sucking his haki out. He even says stuff like “I have to unleash more of Enma’s power” on the rooftop against Kaido showing that he can pick and choose how much haki he’s letting Enma suck bit by bit the entire time.

So the issue of “Making the sword only cut as much as you want” was fixed exactly ONE PANEL after Zoro failed to do it when he cut the cliff side. And this is what Koushiro taught. That a sword must be made to only cut as much as you want.

Then this philosophy FAILED AGAIN against King. Enma went off again even though we already saw that Zoro can stop it’s Haki sucking, it basically broke off from his control and Zoro realised that he must have been doing something wrong.

This flashback exists because Zoro has to learn something. Something about what Zoro was doing before wasn’t working. Something about how Zoro was taught to do swordsmanship was failing. Koushiro’s teachings of making your swords only do as much damage as you allow was not working.

Then he remembered someone who told him the exact opposite thing. That cursed swords are considered cursed simply because the Wielders of the swords cannot handle how much some swords want to kill. Kozaburo thinks that a sword cutting and killing as much as it wants to kill IS A GOOD THING since swords are made for killing so a good sword is the one that kills the most.

this is the exact opposite of what Zoro was doing and it’s exactly what Zoro needed to learn to use Enma. The trick to using Enma isn’t stopping its haki suck. It’s giving Enma as much haki as it wants AND THEN SOME and simply NOT DYING from getting all that haki sucked out. Enma wants to kill as much as possible and Zoro learned that he has to go all out sometimes and give Enma what it wants.

What are you on about.. Zoro didn't have full control of Enma until he completely tamed it when he awakened CoC.. It has nothing to do the cutting more than it needs too, nor about the teaching of Swordsmanship to cut anything and nothing..

Blacksmithing Philosophy =/= Swordsmanship Philosophy

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Whatever mental gymnastic that was.. Enma's personality is sucking Haki out of the user, Kinemon's Blades ability is creating fire and canceling explosions..


What are you on about.. Zoro didn't have full control of Enma until he completely tamed it when he awakened CoC.. It has nothing to do the cutting more than it needs too, nor about the teaching of Swordsmanship to cut anything and nothing..

Blacksmithing Philosophy =/= Swordsmanship Philosophy

You’re saying I’m using mental gymnastics when you make shit up wholesale? Didn’t I tell you that Zoro was creating fire pre time skip when he cut Ryuma yet you insist that the fire attacks are due to “sword abilities”

and It seems your idea is that The flashback Zoro had during the king fight was for NOTHING? That literally nothing Kozaburo said had any baring on the fight. Zoro didn’t learn anything.

and you’re saying that the panel of Zoro saying he’s releasing so much Haki that he’s about to die also doesn’t mean anything.

And the panel of Zoro praising oden for using Enma at that level also doesn’t mean anything since that panel is about Zoro saying that the correct way of using Enma is giving it all the haki it wants and Oden is impressive for giving Enma all that haki so easily… None of this mattered.

so you've graduated from thinking Anything you make up is worth discussing as if it’s canon to the things that happened in canon don’t matter compared to whatever you believe

 

[Shiroyru]

Prove he doesn’t

Swordmanship is a fighting style. If she fights like a swordsman then she is

It’s correlations vs Causation. Enma has a strong personality and it has the haki sucking ability. One doesn’t cause the other. It just so happens that one sword has both things at the same time coincidentally

Kozaburo actually never explains where the haki sucking ability came from.


Do you remember what happened immediately after Zoro cut the cliff side? HE STOPPED THE HAKI SUCK.

From then onwards, Zoro was fully capable of stopping Enma from sucking his haki out. He even says stuff like “I have to unleash more of Enma’s power” on the rooftop against Kaido showing that he can pick and choose how much haki he’s letting Enma suck bit by bit the entire time.

So the issue of “Making the sword only cut as much as you want” was fixed exactly ONE PANEL after Zoro failed to do it when he cut the cliff side. And this is what Koushiro taught. That a sword must be made to only cut as much as you want.

Then this philosophy FAILED AGAIN against King. Enma went off again even though we already saw that Zoro can stop it’s Haki sucking, it basically broke off from his control and Zoro realised that he must have been doing something wrong.

This flashback exists because Zoro has to learn something. Something about what Zoro was doing before wasn’t working. Something about how Zoro was taught to do swordsmanship was failing. Koushiro’s teachings of making your swords only do as much damage as you allow was not working.

Then he remembered someone who told him the exact opposite thing. That cursed swords are considered cursed simply because the Wielders of the swords cannot handle how much some swords want to kill. Kozaburo thinks that a sword cutting and killing as much as it wants to kill IS A GOOD THING since swords are made for killing so a good sword is the one that kills the most.

this is the exact opposite of what Zoro was doing and it’s exactly what Zoro needed to learn to use Enma. The trick to using Enma isn’t stopping its haki suck. It’s giving Enma as much haki as it wants AND THEN SOME and simply NOT DYING from getting all that haki sucked out. Enma wants to kill as much as possible and Zoro learned that he has to go all out sometimes and give Enma what it wants.

Engaging in swordsmanship doesn’t mean you’re a swordsman. King would be a swordsman if that were the case

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Engaging in swordsmanship doesn’t mean you’re a swordsman. King would be a swordsman if that were the case

King EXPLICITLY SAYS he doesn’t do swordsmanship. He says he doesn’t use sword techniques and sword styles.

And this is true. He doesn’t use any named sword attacks

 

[Rootbeer]

You’re saying I’m using mental gymnastics when you make shit up wholesale? Didn’t I tell you that Zoro was creating fire pre time skip when he cut Ryuma yet you insist that the fire attacks are due to “sword abilities”

I don't mind speculation but it needs to make sense.. Applying Blacksmith philosophy to Swordsman philosophy is comparing apples to oranges, or i'm missing something..

and It seems your idea is that The flashback Zoro had during the king fight was for NOTHING? That literally nothing Kozaburo said had any baring on the fight. Zoro didn’t learn anything.

and you’re saying that the panel of Zoro saying he’s releasing so much Haki that he’s about to die also doesn’t mean anything.

And the panel of Zoro praising oden for using Enma at that level also doesn’t mean anything since that panel is about Zoro saying that the correct way of using Enma is giving it all the haki it wants and Oden is impressive for giving Enma all that haki so easily… None of this mattered.

so you've graduated from thinking Anything you make up is worth discussing as if it’s canon to the things that happened in canon don’t matter compared to whatever you believe

Most of it was lore, it came down to a '' Sword sees you and chooses it's wielder ''.. So Zoro realized Enma revealed itself in front of him to test him.. He was the one Lacking in power to wield Enma as light as feather.. And it's the Swordsman's duty to tame the Blade..

Giving it '' all the Haki it wants '' was for Zoro to awaken CoC, Enma didn't actually want a huge amount of CoA Haki, it wanted base CoC.. It wasn't giving Enma all the Haki it wanted, it was giving his very life(CoC) by facing death..

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I don't mind speculation but it needs to make sense.. Applying Blacksmith philosophy to Swordsman philosophy is comparing apples to oranges, or i'm missing something..

Most of it was lore, it came down to a '' Sword sees you and chooses it's wielder ''.. So Zoro realized Enma revealed itself in front of him to test him.. He was the one Lacking in power to wield Enma as light as feather.. And it's the Swordsman's duty to tame the Blade..

Giving it '' all the Haki it wants '' was for Zoro to awaken CoC, Enma didn't actually want a huge amount of CoA Haki, it wanted base CoC.. It wasn't giving Enma all the Haki it wanted, it was giving his very life(CoC) by facing death..

Everything you said is wrong and I’m just too tired of you to even explain it anymore

 

[Rootbeer]

Everything you said is wrong and I’m just too tired of you to even explain it anymore

Come on man..

 

[Vanlax]

Sword Skill is the combined application of raw strength, haki, and technique using a sword.

Shanks fans are claiming despite Mihawk being the WSS, Shanks is stronger.
This means Shanks has more raw power and haki than Mihawk.
But Mihawk has greater skills which means his skills are more effective than Shanks,
despite Shanks being stronger in raw strength and haki.

This is what Shanks fans claim.

So how come Shanks is not the WSS if he's more powerful and on top of that skillful enough to use Kamusari at age 15?

Basically Shanks fans are telling us he is dumb asf.

It's like saying Shanks is the strongest weight lifter in the world.
But Mihawk is prime Mike Tyson.

 

[Halyup]

Mihawk would have no way of knowing Shanks > BM, and Mihawk only fought a 1B bounty Shanks who definitely wasn’t stronger than BM yet

That 1 Billion bounty shanks beat 2.6 billion bounty Loki