Speculations The First and the Last
- Thread starter nik87
- Start date
It has been a while since we met like this, to discuss a theory...
Some information takes time to be digested and for the dots to be connected. Lots of things have been on my mind lately...
This will revolve around Zoro and Luffy but mainly OP treasure, my take on the Harley text, etc... If this piques your interest, buckle up.
The Ancient mural shows the battles of the 1st and the 2nd world. It was drawn during the Void Century so it doesn't show the 3rd world.
Only the Harley text speaks of the 3rd world and if this wasn't sourced from some clairvoyant, this is the narrator's direct word.
There are so many things in my head that I don't know if I will manage to organize them into something that makes sense so bear with me.
There are 3 things in the Ancient Mural that stand out more than others, the 3 things shaded darker than all other characters.
The dragon in the sky, the huge serpent and the winged demon.
What are the chances of these 3 being the Ancient representatives of Land, Sea and Air?
We also see the 3 Ancient Weapons in that mural, who also might represent Land, Sea and Air as well... Franky as representative of Pluton.
What if I told you that we also see the One Piece treasure itself in that mural?
Oda didn't tell us about the Final Saga for no reason, he wanted us to pay special attention to that part of the story.
That's why he said, you could start reading One Piece after Wano and it would be like you didn't miss much. Or something like that...
And what was the first meal served in the Final Saga? The island of the future or rather, the island of advanced technology of the past...
Vegapunk's satelite Lilith tells us that Egghead runs on fire.
This is where it gets interesting, where important information was revealed and it flew under the radar without us connecting the dots.
Lilith's and Franky's exchange continues into what I believe to be the most crucial information of Egghead island:
>If only there were such a thing as Eternal Flame, we could create our own Sun!!
Well, such a thing already exists and it can be seen in the mural, in the very hands of the winged demon!
Later on, we find out that Vegapunk is literally trying to create the Eternal Flame but he only managed to make the Mother Flame.
Many people think these are the same thing but they are not, we know for a fact that Mother Flame is not eternal, it is spent by Uranus.
Back to the Eternal Flame in the mural - that is the treasure, the One Piece!
However, in the present, it is incomplete!
You may remember my theory that One Piece was all the Poneglyphs put together instead but now I have changed my mind.
I still cant figure out what Poneglyphs actually are and what ultimate purpose they will serve, other than being a guide but...
...I figured out something else.
Remember Roger's/Oden's flashback during Wano?
Remember how Roger found a Poneglyph without knowing its location?
Through Voice of all things!
Initially, I thought that all Poneglyphs would have to be put back together in order for their purpose to be fulfilled...
...but now I realized, thanks to Voice of all things, there is no need for such a thing.
What is the purpose of the Voice of all things? Logically, for that voice to be heard, to convey information.
So, we could come to the conclusion that, whoever does this, Luffy or Robin, wherever they are, they will hear the Voice of all the Poneglyphs across the entire world! Remember that Roger found the treasure but realized he was too early? He wished to have had lived in Joyboy's(Sun God's) era. This means that there is something special about the treasure that can only be realized through the Sun God's help.
I would even make a claim that Sun God is a piece of that treasure but more about that later...
What we know of the One Piece treasure is that Joyboy, the 2nd Awakening of the Sun God, hid it at Raftel.
It means the treasure already existed, it wasn't gathered, it is not gold or anything like that.
Think of that treasure as something divine, magical, I might even go as far as to say that it is the world's soul...
*be-beng!* End of Act I
Time to give it a shot at the Harley text...
The 1st World:
>Within earth there was fire.
Notice how the entire mural is on fire, on the bottom of it. Notice how fire takes a big part of the story, one way or another. Both sword brothers of the Sun God are users of the Fire Fire no Mi. Sun God himself is fire themed and possess several fire-incorporating attacks such as Red Hawk and Red Roc... The Mother flame, the Eternal Flame and there is probably a lot more when you pay attention to it...
What this refers to is probably the Eternal Flame, the treasure One Piece itself. It was within earth, within the planet, maybe at its core.
>Mankind succumbed to greed and touched the forbidden sun.
The forbidden sun is the same thing, I believe, the Eternal Flame. Succumbing to greed and touching it probably refers to stealing the Eternal Flame from its original place.
>The enslaved prayed and the Sun God appeared.
The mysterious part here is who was enslaved and by who... By the one who touched the forbidden sun, the one who stole the Eternal Flame?
The slaves prayed for freedom and manifested it in the form of the Sun God.
>The Earth God raged and with its serpent of hellfire, shrouded the world in death and darkness.
Why did the Earth God rage? Because the Sun God appeared. Does that mean that Earth God was the one who enslaved the people, the one who touched the forbidden sun? Is he the serpent of hellfire, is it his own manifestation of desire or is it his ally, a different entity?
Ultimately, it is he who destroyed the first world, engulfing it in death and darkness.
>They will never meet.
I think this refers to the fragments that make the treasure into one single piece. I will explain this at the end of the 3rd world.
The 2nd World:
>Within the void there was breath.
The void is the destruction left behind the war of the first world. The breath is the Eternal Flame that endured death, destruction and darkness.
Breath means life and the Eternal Flame gives life. I will explain this in Act III.
This refers to Eternal Flame which is the center piece of the 2nd world in the mural, being in the hands of the winged demon.
>The Forest God tamed demons and the sun spread the fires of war.
The taming of demons part is not really clear to me yet but it could be referring to Imu's ability of turning everyone into demonds and "taming" them to his side... The Forest God is the winged demon that holds the Eternal Flame and the sun spreading the fires of war refers to manifestations of desire, the abilities spread throughout the world. More on this later.
>Those of the half moon dreamed. Those of the moon dreamed.
This probably refers to the D clan as the half moon people and the moon people are Lunarians which are in the mural.
Their dreams could be the same as the 1st worlds prayers that manifested or rather awakened the Sun God. Joyboy was from the D clan...
>Man killed the sun and became god, and the sea god raged.
Killing of the Sun most likely refers to Joyboy's death who failed to keep his promise to Poseidon who ends up raging...
Men who killed the sun are likely the 20 kings who became Celestial Dragons, the gods of the world.
>They will never meet.
Same as in the first world, this refers to all the fragments of the One Piece.
The 3rd World:
>Within chaos there was emptiness.
The chaos is the war that started 900 years ago and the emptiness is the 100 year long history that was erased.
>Inconvenient remnants recall the promised day and hear the voice of the half-moon.
The remnants are probably the allies of Joyboy who remember the promise of a new dawn that the D-clan Joyboy told them about.
>The Sun God dances and laughs, guiding the world to its end.
The end of the world here is probably meant in more ways than one, end of the current world under the WG rule and the end of Devil fruits.
>The sun returns and brings a new morning.
This is the forbidden sun, the Eternal Flame, the One Piece. It will resurface again and bring the promised Dawn.
>And they will surely meet.
As promised, I will explain these never meet/surely meet lines.
Look at the mural, at the right side, at the center-bottom part...
We see the people of an ancient city going down, on some kind of elevator or whatever, down into the earth, where the flame is and then they are coming back up but this time they carry something with them... This is the "mankind touching the forbidden sun". They went down into the earth, where there was fire and they touched the Eternal Flame and they came back with a piece of it! That piece is the manifestation of their desire, their Devil Fruit abilities which are of unnatural status, loathed by the sea, the mother of nature because they were never supposed to be and thus a "fitting punishment for the sin". As Vegaunk explained...
So, the part about them surely meeting is about all those fragments of the Eternal Flame that were taken by those who touched it, returning to its original source!
That is why they >will never meet again, in 1st and 2nd world because they weren't returned to the Eternal Flame while in the 3rd World, this will happen.
All the Devil Fruits will disappear from this world!
*be-beng!!* End of Act II
Finally, we come to Luffy and Zoro, the First and the Last...
Have you noticed how all the Devil Fruits already existed the whole time and we never saw a new one being dreamt up into reality?
This is because they all manifested a long time ago when Eternal Flame was used/the forbidden sun was touched while in the 3rd world, the Eternal Flame is hidden from the world, at Raftel so no manifestations/Devil Fruits are being created... Even a genius like Vegapunk was unable to create new ones but instead just make copies of the existing ones...
The Eternal Flame is a powerful thing, it gives life, it gives birth to desires, it manifests the wishes, it can be used as a fuel source and so on and on...
In the Harley of the 1st world, mankind touched it first, then the Sun God appeared and then the Earth God raged.
Maybe those who touched it first didn't manifest anything and instead used it as the fuel source for the ancient weapon Uranus that is exactly shown in the 1st world, to enslave others.
That would mean that Sun God is the First manifestation of desire but the enslaved couldn't have gotten their hands on the Eternal Flame so maybe it was Eternal Flame itself who manifested Sun God, in order to liberate itself from those who stole it from its original place within the Earth, alongside liberating those enslaved...
Then Earth God manifested his desire and perhaps the serpent of hellfire as well. The only thing here that doesn't make sense to me is why is the Sun God penalized by the sea if it wasn't manifested by those succumbed to greed...
I have mentioned at the start that One Piece/Eternal Flame is incomplete in the present.
Remember the one constant about Luffy, since Enies Lobby until the present? He gasses out by using his gears.
Probably everying wondered why this was and every time he overcame the drawback new gear popped up with the same problem...
This is because Sun God is incomplete, he needs to absorb the Eternal Flame to power him and then, he will be able to fight endlessly.
Neither OG Nika nor Joyboy were able to accomplish this but Luffy will. Check out how Oda drew Luffy in one of the color spreads:
Now, remember the time we saw the Mother Flame for the first time? You noticed anything unusual?
It burns underwater! This is how Luffy will counter the penalty of the sea!
So, where is Zoro in all of this? Well, he is the Last.
His Demon God is another special manifestation because it also happened without touching the forbidden sun!
I have no explanation for this, considering that no manifestations are happening at all, not once in the story, except for Zoro's.
How Oda plans to explain this is beyond me at this point but I suspect that Demon God will remain in existence when all other manifestations cease to exist and return to the Eternal Flame to become one single piece as it once was, before mankind succumbed to greed.
This is probably Luffy's secret dream, he carries the wish of Eternal Flame, to reunite with all its fragments - truly, an impossible dream!
The disappearance of Devil Fruits is foreshadowed by the DF-negating haki blasts.
However, since Zoro's Demon God is not a Devil Fruit yet, it will continue to exist, leaving Zoro as the only true god of the world.
Maybe Sun God remains too but I am not sure about this.
One final thing, the blood-soaked serpent was confirmed to be the Red Line but I am not buying the explanation that it is just countless islands being connected together... This never made any sense whatsoever. The height alone is simply ridiculous, way too high for any island that we know of... It is way above the pay grade of an ability like Pica's DF... The Red Line probably is, as theorized, a huge serpent, the one from the 1st world that we see in the mural!
What else do we see in the 1st world? The huge elephant, Zunisha! Cursed to walk the seas for a thousand years...
This thing is very old, probably a survivor of the First World with immense knowledge and probably responsible for Joyboy's downfall and the reason why Eternal Flame fell into Imu's hands. How exactly they managed to take it away from Imu is unknown as well as who cursed it to walk for a 1000 years...
Finally, the only thing left from the mural is the thing that is located above Elbaf itself, the huge dragon...
What are the chances that this is exactly the legendary, forbidden fruit that Harald kept and Loki consumed?
With the reveal of his eyes, this now makes sense, those eyes will look perfect in the dragon form.
I am starting to drift off so this is where we take a break.
*be-beng!!! End of Act III
Let me know what yall think about this theory.
Kitetsu wanker over and out.
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That fight only lasts like 30 seconds and it’s like the first “fight” in the manga, yeah I remember it without going to go back and look. Lol
If your eyes are aimed downward and you are prepared to attack a target, and another individual who you thought was completely restrained by ropes flies at you out of your periphery, yeah that’s a sneak attack lol. Morgan and Zolo were not fighting, Morgan was engaged with Luffy and Zolo snuck him like a true pirate. It’s like you’ve never played a sport before, if someone comes at you/throws a ball at you from your periphery, your reactions aren’t going to be as efficient as they would be if you were completely focused on the incoming target/ball.
They were all almost in a straight line.
Coby/Helmeppo ................ Zoro ............ Luffy ...... Morgan
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Imo Zoro is not turning into or manifesting a Demon, He is One!
I once mentioned that Zoro having a Closed Eye is similar to what Pirates used to do, They used to wear Eye-Patches not because there was anything wrong with their Eyes, but it's actually to get them accustomed to the Dark, so that when They move below Deck, They switch Eyes,
This isn't Historically Proven, but at least it's Scientifically Proven & a very Popular Theory of why Eye-Patches were associated with Pirates, so the Inspiration is there,
However, in OP World, the Ship is World itself, meaning this whole Eye & getting accustomed to Darkness is so that Zoro is ready to move to Lower Realm of this World, to the Underworld, to the Upside Down, whatever you wanna call it, and after what Imu pulled, are there still doubters that there is a Lower Level of this World?
This isn't Proof that Zoro is a Demon though, it only means He is ready to go there (Alongside saying He is King of Hell & many other Underworld References), but thankfully We have another thing going on with him, his Bad Directions Sense!
Do you know what else is Bad with Directions? A Compass in Grand Line! instead People need a Log Pose there, which also becomes useless in New World as They require a Three Needles Log Pose, so what am i supposed to conclude after seeing Zoro have Bad Directional Sense in Four Blue, Paradise & also New World? It means He belongs in another Place completely, and that's obviously the Underworld,
So imo Zoro isn't Manifesting anything, He is a straight up Demon, while all of these WG Yokai are Fake Demons born of Science,
How does Asura Manifest? Well it's same reason Brook can do Human Functions despite being in a Skeleton, because his Soul carried with it whatever was Originally possible in his Former Body, so Asura is who Zoro actually is, and He was reborn as a normal Human, (Opposite of Luffy who Died a Man & got Reborn as Sun God),
And that's how DFs function, it's Demons living inside those Fruits, transferring Functions that are only possible in other Worlds (Just like Brook brough Underworld's Cold with him for example), except Luffy's Fruit which apparently came from Heaven, it isn't Demonic at all, hence why it couldn't be Controlled, making it a "Fake" DF,
So Luffy is Fruit Power User without a Demon, while Zoro is Demon without a Fruit, They Complete each other.
I once mentioned that Zoro having a Closed Eye is similar to what Pirates used to do, They used to wear Eye-Patches not because there was anything wrong with their Eyes, but it's actually to get them accustomed to the Dark, so that when They move below Deck, They switch Eyes,
This isn't Historically Proven, but at least it's Scientifically Proven & a very Popular Theory of why Eye-Patches were associated with Pirates, so the Inspiration is there,
However, in OP World, the Ship is World itself, meaning this whole Eye & getting accustomed to Darkness is so that Zoro is ready to move to Lower Realm of this World, to the Underworld, to the Upside Down, whatever you wanna call it, and after what Imu pulled, are there still doubters that there is a Lower Level of this World?
This isn't Proof that Zoro is a Demon though, it only means He is ready to go there (Alongside saying He is King of Hell & many other Underworld References), but thankfully We have another thing going on with him, his Bad Directions Sense!
Do you know what else is Bad with Directions? A Compass in Grand Line! instead People need a Log Pose there, which also becomes useless in New World as They require a Three Needles Log Pose, so what am i supposed to conclude after seeing Zoro have Bad Directional Sense in Four Blue, Paradise & also New World? It means He belongs in another Place completely, and that's obviously the Underworld,
So imo Zoro isn't Manifesting anything, He is a straight up Demon, while all of these WG Yokai are Fake Demons born of Science,
How does Asura Manifest? Well it's same reason Brook can do Human Functions despite being in a Skeleton, because his Soul carried with it whatever was Originally possible in his Former Body, so Asura is who Zoro actually is, and He was reborn as a normal Human, (Opposite of Luffy who Died a Man & got Reborn as Sun God),
And that's how DFs function, it's Demons living inside those Fruits, transferring Functions that are only possible in other Worlds (Just like Brook brough Underworld's Cold with him for example), except Luffy's Fruit which apparently came from Heaven, it isn't Demonic at all, hence why it couldn't be Controlled, making it a "Fake" DF,
So Luffy is Fruit Power User without a Demon, while Zoro is Demon without a Fruit, They Complete each other.
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