The Game Awards 2023: Baldur's Gate wins!
- Thread starter Mr. Reloaded
- Start date
@Toby D. Dog what are your arguments for TOTK winning btw?
Well I can't say much to it but what does make BG3 so great?
At the end it is about the popularity and it is definitely debatable imo.
It is only true for BotW and maybe TotK (since it did improve the things which BotW lacked) but which Zelda game didn't have a coherent story or wasn't following a clear storyline?
At the end it is about the popularity and it is definitely debatable imo.
It is only true for BotW and maybe TotK (since it did improve the things which BotW lacked) but which Zelda game didn't have a coherent story or wasn't following a clear storyline?
No it is not about popularity in this case. BG3 isn't good because it is popular, BG3 is popular because it is good.
From story, to characters, music, combat and lore. It is top notch game and no game this year can hold a candle to it, esp smth like Zelda or RES
When you talk about great storyline of gaming you'll rarely hear of Zelda
Mass Effect 1-3, Borderlands 1-2, RDR2 and so on are rightful names when it comes to story. Zelda is nowhere near that
From story, to characters, music, combat and lore. It is top notch game and no game this year can hold a candle to it, esp smth like Zelda or RES
When you talk about great storyline of gaming you'll rarely hear of Zelda
Mass Effect 1-3, Borderlands 1-2, RDR2 and so on are rightful names when it comes to story. Zelda is nowhere near that
Well, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks are direct sequels of Wind Waker.
Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages and Seasons are sequels to A Link to the Past, so these games are connected quite indeed.
Minish Cap is basically the prequel of Four Swords while Four Swords Adventure continues the story in a different timeline with a different Link and Zelda. But the antagonist is still the same.
There is a reason why the timeline theory was so popular back then before Nintendo released an official timeline of all games.
Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages and Seasons are sequels to A Link to the Past, so these games are connected quite indeed.
Minish Cap is basically the prequel of Four Swords while Four Swords Adventure continues the story in a different timeline with a different Link and Zelda. But the antagonist is still the same.
There is a reason why the timeline theory was so popular back then before Nintendo released an official timeline of all games.
Well, there are lots of games which are popular because they are good. Elden Ring is an example.
Before you say "BotW/TotK only got popular because of its name" - those two games vastly surpassed the previous games' sales by a large margin because the new concept managed to impact many newer fans.
When it comes to BG3: Again, I can't base an opinion over this, so I'm just gonna see how it'll fare in GotY.
Sure, the Zelda series doesn't tell an AAA movie plot but it is not that necessary.
A game can be good even without a solid story, although I'd personally appreciate it more if newer Zelda games will be focused more on storyline in comparison to BotW and TotK.
Also, only because it doesn't narrate the story in the way like the aforementioned games which you listed above, doesn't mean Zelda games do not have a coherent story or a clear storyline.
Most Zelda games were pretty linear with a clear lore backing it up.
The entire Soulsborne series tells its stories through collectives, NPCs and so on; sure, it's a different style of narrative in comparison to games like RDR2 and so on but it doesn't make the story anything less good imo.
Before you say "BotW/TotK only got popular because of its name" - those two games vastly surpassed the previous games' sales by a large margin because the new concept managed to impact many newer fans.
When it comes to BG3: Again, I can't base an opinion over this, so I'm just gonna see how it'll fare in GotY.
Sure, the Zelda series doesn't tell an AAA movie plot but it is not that necessary.
A game can be good even without a solid story, although I'd personally appreciate it more if newer Zelda games will be focused more on storyline in comparison to BotW and TotK.
Also, only because it doesn't narrate the story in the way like the aforementioned games which you listed above, doesn't mean Zelda games do not have a coherent story or a clear storyline.
Most Zelda games were pretty linear with a clear lore backing it up.
The entire Soulsborne series tells its stories through collectives, NPCs and so on; sure, it's a different style of narrative in comparison to games like RDR2 and so on but it doesn't make the story anything less good imo.
Ah yeah. I totally forgot about the wacky timeline 
I guess both BotW and TotK, even Hyrule's founders, probably play centuries after older Zelda games. It plays in a time when Hyrule was completely destroyed but rebuild again.
My point would be exactly that. Zelda games rarely change at their core, they add some new stuff here and there but core is always the same for years now. It is slowly becoming COD of RPG games and i would even argue it is so with Souls games.
Zelda has massive fanbase based on old school memories and it is riding that wave for years now. You'll rarely see clips of Zelda where players do some wicked shit, you'll rarely see clips of Zelda that capture mainstream public, you'll rarely see anything of Zelda outside its core fanbase.
BG3 on another hand, crushed those barriers. You had people that never cared about tabletop RPG's or DND dive in and spend hours upon hours on it.
That's the line what makes BG3 >>> Zelda, BG3 managed to break the barrier where Zelda stayed inside of it
I would disagree. RPG games desperately need a story, story drives the player. You connect to characters on a deeper level. RPG without story is just smash and grab
Zelda has massive fanbase based on old school memories and it is riding that wave for years now. You'll rarely see clips of Zelda where players do some wicked shit, you'll rarely see clips of Zelda that capture mainstream public, you'll rarely see anything of Zelda outside its core fanbase.
BG3 on another hand, crushed those barriers. You had people that never cared about tabletop RPG's or DND dive in and spend hours upon hours on it.
That's the line what makes BG3 >>> Zelda, BG3 managed to break the barrier where Zelda stayed inside of it
I would disagree. RPG games desperately need a story, story drives the player. You connect to characters on a deeper level. RPG without story is just smash and grab
First of all, is it really thaaaaaaaat bad??? I mean, you don't always need to invent something completely new to make it better, especially if core elements carried the series so far. How would it make sense to change core elements of Soulsborne games by including a difficulty for example? Zelda games didn't change that much when it comes to core elements but lemme tell you something: They made sure to create new ideas for dungeons and if you compare all dungeons, you'll see how different each dungeon is, even in the same game. Now, if I were about to explain details about those dungeons, it would break the scale of this thread for sure but really, the dungeons were the real amazing thing about the entire series. All of them are unique and special. Only Darksiders tried to use the Zelda formular with the dungeons and even then, most of their dungeons are only comparable to the weakest Zelda dungeons imo.
Secondly, BotW changed the whole formular of the entire Zelda series including my most precious dungeons.
But man, their new formular sure changed openworld games a lot. There are no longer some annoying points which show your exact direction, you can go and explore where ever you like. The entire world is like a gigantic sandbox and TotK vastly expanded upon that. There is a reason why old Zelda fans are rather disatisfied with the new formular because it changed so many things.
And once again, that's the magic of Soulsborne games. Changing it can negatively impact the series.
Idk much about that but people do try the craziest shit in TotK:
Let me tell you: Such things didn't happen in older Zelda games. It only happened with BotW and TotK because the entire concept is also for the mainstream and people do not even have to play the older games to play those two games.
Tbh, BG3 seems pretty interesting so far. It's definitely in my must-to-play list.
If you were to compare BG3 with this decade of all great games, how would it fare?
Well I'm a huge JPRG fan (and imo Xenoblade >>> everything) so I'd argue with that but Zelda isn't even an RPG. It's action adventure. Always has been.
I think you generalize this genre way too much; there's even a vast difference between action RPGs and JRPG and although Soulsborne games are technically RPG, those games made sure to invent their "own genre", making those games unique and special thus far. Or should I say sub-genre? It's kind of similar to the metroidvania games which is also a sub-genre.
Secondly, BotW changed the whole formular of the entire Zelda series including my most precious dungeons.
But man, their new formular sure changed openworld games a lot. There are no longer some annoying points which show your exact direction, you can go and explore where ever you like. The entire world is like a gigantic sandbox and TotK vastly expanded upon that. There is a reason why old Zelda fans are rather disatisfied with the new formular because it changed so many things.And once again, that's the magic of Soulsborne games. Changing it can negatively impact the series.
Idk much about that but people do try the craziest shit in TotK:
Let me tell you: Such things didn't happen in older Zelda games. It only happened with BotW and TotK because the entire concept is also for the mainstream and people do not even have to play the older games to play those two games.
Tbh, BG3 seems pretty interesting so far. It's definitely in my must-to-play list.
If you were to compare BG3 with this decade of all great games, how would it fare?
Well I'm a huge JPRG fan (and imo Xenoblade >>> everything) so I'd argue with that but Zelda isn't even an RPG. It's action adventure. Always has been.
I think you generalize this genre way too much; there's even a vast difference between action RPGs and JRPG and although Soulsborne games are technically RPG, those games made sure to invent their "own genre", making those games unique and special thus far. Or should I say sub-genre? It's kind of similar to the metroidvania games which is also a sub-genre.
