Character Discussion The impressiveness of Eustass Kidd and massacre soldier Killer

[imacub]

I also already stated that Blackbeard is Luffy’s arch nemesis a wall that he must overcome to achieve his dream. A rival is not a wall that the mc must overcome, a rival is someone who aims for the same goal and competes alongside mc to reach it.

BB aims for the One Piece and will eventually compete with Luffy. So what's your point?

BB has shown more ambition than Kidd, what's your point?

Also, this point is actually meaningless, we're talking about current Luffy and Current Kidd, not their EoS version. You can go to Top 10 strongest EoS thread and see what's my opinion about EoS Kidd, he will definitely be a Top Tier by EoS

My point hasnt changed, Current Luffy mid diffs Current Kidd at worst

 

[ReggieZoldyck21]

Stop this nonsense BB is luffys only rival

No he’s not. Learn the difference between a rival and a arch nemesis and then come back to me. Refute my points about what the author has set up between Luffy and Kidd/Shanks and Blackbeard before just ignoring everything I typed and saying it’s “nonsense bs”. Everything I said was very reasonable and supported by the manga. I can’t really take your opinion on the subject serious since all you do is go around the forum spamming “UsELesS MidD”. You obviously have a bias lol.
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BB aims for the One Piece and will eventually compete with Luffy. So what's your point?

You missed the part where I said he competes alongside the mc. Blackbeard is way above Luffy like I already stated.

BB has shown more ambition than Kidd, what's your point?

This is false and also does nothing to refute my point of Luffy being Kidd’s rival

Also, this point is actually meaningless, we're talking about current Luffy and Current Kidd, not their EoS version. You can go to Top 10 strongest EoS thread and see what's my opinion about EoS Kidd, he will definitely be a Top Tier by EoS

Cool. Current Luffy is not current Blackbeard’s rival. I never brought up EOS. You did with your pointless question about if Kidd would be Luffys endgame boss.

My point hasnt changed, Current Luffy mid diffs Current Kidd at worst

Trash take

 

[Luffy bin Dragon]

No he’s not. Learn the difference between a rival and a arch nemesis and then come back to me. Refute my points about what the author has set up between Luffy and Kidd/Shanks and Blackbeard before just ignoring everything I typed and saying it’s “nonsense bs”. Everything I said was very reasonable and supported by the manga. I can’t really take your opinion on the subject serious since all you do is go around the forum spamming “UsELesS MidD”. You obviously have a bias lol.

Dictionary definition of Rival:a person or thing competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity.
Tell me how does BB not fit into those no one said a Rival a wall you have to overcome.
You also said since Blackbeard is stronger than Luffy he cant be his rival yet shanks was still way stronger than BB in MF and is still his Rival?

Mihawk is Zoros rival yet way out of Zoros league etc.

 

[vikas]

Kid is a disappointment
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Mihawk is Zoros rival yet way out of Zoros league etc.

Defeating mihawk is his goal, he is not rival..

 

[imacub]

You missed the part where I said he competes alongside the mc. Blackbeard is way above Luffy like I already stated.

I agree Current BB is way above current luffy, and current luffy is way above current Kidd

This is false and also does nothing to refute my point of Luffy being Kidd’s rival

That is true lol, BB told luffy what man's dream is, he has shown more ambition than Kidd. Tell me a scene about Kidd's ambition in becoming the PK

Cool. Current Luffy is not current Blackbeard’s rival. I never brought up EOS. You did with your pointless question about if Kidd would be Luffys endgame boss.

Trash take

You're just salty because your boy Kidd has shown nothing thus far

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Kid is a disappointment
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Defeating mihawk is his goal, he is not rival..

Shiryu and Vista is Zoro's rival, and yet Shiryu and Vista is still stronger than Zoro

 

[ReggieZoldyck21]

Dictionary definition of Rival:a person or thing competing with another for the same objective or for superiority in the same field of activity.
Tell me how does BB not fit into those no one said a Rival a wall you have to overcome.
You also said since Blackbeard is stronger than Luffy he cant be his rival yet shanks was still way stronger than BB in MF and is still his Rival?

Mihawk is Zoros rival yet way out of Zoros league etc.

https://wikidiff.com/rival/nemesis

Also Mihawk is in no way shape or form Zoro’s rival.
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I agree Current BB is way above current luffy, and current luffy is way above current Kidd

I agree with the first half of that statement. Second half has nothing behind it to support it. Name me one guy Kidd has lost to that Luffy can beat. Also name me one guy Luffy has beat that Kidd has lost to.

That is true lol, BB told luffy what man's dream is, he has shown more ambition than Kidd. Tell me a scene about Kidd's ambition in becoming the PK

Are you serious right now? Look at everything Kidd has been through and yet his will still isn’t broken and he has never once sunk under a Yonko. He obviously is the one dude in Luffys generation that matches his willpower and ambition. The whole reason Luffy and Kidd were thrown into Udon was to highlight their willpower and ambition.

You're just salty because your boy Kidd has shown nothing thus far

True he hasn’t shown much yet. Difference between me and you is, you’re speculating he’s a scrub compared to Luffy based off headcanon and bias while I speculate that he’s around Luffys level based on portrayal. I guess we’re both speculating here my friend :cheers:

 

[imacub]

https://wikidiff.com/rival/nemesis

Also Mihawk is in no way shape or form Zoro’s rival.
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I agree with the first half of that statement. Second half has nothing behind it to support it. Name me one guy Kidd has lost to that Luffy can beat. Also name me one guy Luffy has beat that Kidd has lost to.

Are you serious right now? Look at everything Kidd has been through and yet his will still isn’t broken and he has never once sink under a Yonko. He obviously is the one dude in Luffys generation that matches his willpower and ambition. The whole reason Luffy and Kidd were thrown into Udon was to highlight their willpower and ambition.

True he hasn’t shown much yet. Difference between me and you is, you’re speculating he’s a scrub compared to Luffy based off headcanon and bias while I speculate that he’s around Luffys level based on portrayal. I guess we’re both speculating here my friend :cheers:

everyone has their own bias, i have mine, so do you

difference between me and you is, you're claiming being rival is always being equal when in fact no

Vista is zoro's rival, and Vista is probably stronger than zoro currently

@Luffy bin Dragon already told you

BB is not nemesis, it's not like he's the guardian of the laugh tale, Mihawk is nemesis because he currently hold the WSS title

BB is luffy's ultimate rival, not Kidd

Luffy outclass Kidd in several aspects, Let it be in CoA, CoO, Strength, Speed

Current Luffy mid diffs currenr Kidd
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And shanks has no interest in finding the OP, and you're claiming he's BB rival

 

[ReggieZoldyck21]

everyone has their own bias, i have mine, so do you

difference between me and you is, you're claiming being rival is always being equal when in fact no

Nope, I’m using portrayal you are using bias. I never said Kidd and Luffy are complete equals. I simply believe that they are on the same tier. Much more reasonable and supported than you blindly stating Luffy would “mid diff” Kidd lol

BB is not nemesis, it's not like he's the guardian of the laugh tale, Mihawk is nemesis because he currently hold the WSS title

BB is luffy's ultimate rival, not Kidd

Blackbeard is the Xebec of this era. That simple. His ship is even named Saber of Xebec. Luffy is obviously this eras Roger. Xebec might have been his toughest enemy but that doesn’t make him his rival. Just because Blackbeard will be Luffys toughest enemy does not mean they are rivals. Like I already said but you and the other dude ignored this. Current Blackbeard is Shanks rival not Luffy’s. Like you said we are talking about current not EOS right?

Luffy outclass Kidd in several aspects, Let it be in CoA, CoO, Strength, Speed

How can you state this headcanon when you yourself said we haven’t seen Kidd do anything? You are simply assuming Luffy outclasses him in everything even though that goes against the way the author has portrayed these two characters.

Current Luffy mid diffs currenr Kidd

Like I said before, trash ass take with no basis. But hey believe what you want I’m done here. You think Luffy mid diffs the dude that has been portrayed as the guy closest to him in his generation then whatever. You won’t be the only one who looks dumb at the end of Wano. So at least you won’t be alone lol.

 

[Rmstorm]

Nope, I’m using portrayal you are using bias. I never said Kidd and Luffy are complete equals. I simply believe that they are on the same tier. Much more reasonable and supported than you blindly stating Luffy would “mid diff” Kidd lol

Blackbeard is the Xebec of this era. That simple. His ship is even named Saber of Xebec. Luffy is obviously this eras Roger. Xebec might have been his toughest enemy but that doesn’t make him his rival. Just because Blackbeard will be Luffys toughest enemy does not mean they are rivals. Like I already said but you and the other dude ignored this. Current Blackbeard is Shanks rival not Luffy’s. Like you said we are talking about current not EOS right?

How can you state this headcanon when you yourself said we haven’t seen Kidd do anything? You are simply assuming Luffy outclasses him in everything even though that goes against the way the author has portrayed these two characters.

Like I said before, trash ass take with no basis. But hey believe what you want I’m done here. You think Luffy mid diffs the dude that has been portrayed as the guy closest to him in his generation then whatever. You won’t be the only one who looks dumb at the end of Wano. So at least you won’t be alone lol.

Current Luffy does mid diff kid, and that will be made clear by Oda, just like what happened with Luffy and Law in Dressrossa

 

[imacub]

Nope, I’m using portrayal you are using bias. I never said Kidd and Luffy are complete equals. I simply believe that they are on the same tier. Much more reasonable and supported than you blindly stating Luffy would “mid diff” Kidd lol

Blackbeard is the Xebec of this era. That simple. His ship is even named Saber of Xebec. Luffy is obviously this eras Roger. Xebec might have been his toughest enemy but that doesn’t make him his rival. Just because Blackbeard will be Luffys toughest enemy does not mean they are rivals. Like I already said but you and the other dude ignored this. Current Blackbeard is Shanks rival not Luffy’s. Like you said we are talking about current not EOS right?

How can you state this headcanon when you yourself said we haven’t seen Kidd do anything? You are simply assuming Luffy outclasses him in everything even though that goes against the way the author has portrayed these two characters.

Like I said before, trash ass take with no basis. But hey believe what you want I’m done here. You think Luffy mid diffs the dude that has been portrayed as the guy closest to him in his generation then whatever. You won’t be the only one who looks dumb at the end of Wano. So at least you won’t be alone lol.

1. I know you're using poryrayal, no need. to repeat it. What im trying to say is:
-being rival doesnt necessarily being on the same tier. Vista is zoro's rival and he is most likely stronger than zoro currently
-BB is not luffy's nemesis, he's luffy's ultimate rival

2. According to what you just said, BB fit into the category of being luffy''s rival, why are you being incosistent?
Also, Xebec wants to be King of The World, while BB simply wants to be the PK

3. Shanks has no interest in finding the OP, why are you claiming he's BB's rival?

4. Kidd was surprised seeing Luffy's CoA, Luffy has good normal CoA + FS. Luffy has fought 3 YC level characters and got trained by a Top Tier. Dont say about Shanks and Kaido whooping Kid's ass, that's not a fight, that's a murder lol

5. Im saaying it based on feats and portrayal
I know Kidd is luffy's rival based on portrayal, but as i said, being rival doesnt necessarily being equal/being on the same tier

 

[ReggieZoldyck21]

Current Luffy does mid diff kid, and that will be made clear by Oda, just like what happened with Luffy and Law in Dressrossa

You might’ve had a point, if Kidd had the same portrayal as Law. But he doesn’t. And he never did and never will. From the arc the supernova were introduced Kidd has had batter portrayal than Law and that hasn’t changed. Remember this. Oda didn’t give Kidd CoC for no reason. Come back to this after Wano.

 

[hedera__helix]

Kidd is not Luffy’s rival, he’s more like the bad timeline version of Luffy

 

[Orojackson Refugee]

Kidd is not Luffy’s rival, he’s more like the bad timeline version of Luffy

This. Kidd lost his arm, killer was fed with smile fruit.
And luffy is just too eager to fight yonko. Luffy pretimeskip would be a fool who challenges kaido and becomes the second Moria. Kidd and law are actually more patient on that and make plan on that, like making alliance beforehand.

 

[Midnight Delight]

Zoro stop killers full power with a flex, in a 2 v 1 missing his best sword
Zoro fan luke granders:ThEY ArE EqUAL

Do I even need to remind people about the "Strength Vs Elegant" Styles in Swordmanship?
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Kidd lost his arm, killer was fed with smile fruit.

Luffy lost 20 years from his life and nearly died to Hody Jones

 

[Ricassian]

Tell me what portrayal does Kidd have to put him on the same level as luffy?

The answer to your question is in this thread I made
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/eustass-captain-kidd.9970/post-957272

 

[ReggieZoldyck21]

Kidd is not Luffy’s rival, he’s more like the bad timeline version of Luffy

You realize he can be both a dark Luffy and a rival right? Those are not mutually exclusive. Kidd serves as both a rival and foil for Luffy. The same way Luffy’s nemesis Blackbeard is also a foil for him. Lol I seriously have no idea how this is even an argument. The author has obviously set up Kidd as Luffy’s rival whether you like him or not. Kidd has never once shown to be a weakling, it’s you guys that have this headcanon that he is a scrub compared to Luffy and that is what clouds your vision I guess.

 

[imacub]

The answer to your question is in this thread I made
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/eustass-captain-kidd.9970/post-957272

Reggie already told me and i accepted his idea of Kidd being Luffy's rival

However my points still stand
1. being rival doesnt necessarily mean they are equals. Vista is zoro's rival, and he is currently stronger than zoro in my eyes. And BB is luffy's ultimate rival
2. Kidd and Luffy will definitely be on the same tier by EoS imo, but doesnt necessarily they are on the same tier as of now.

 

[Ricassian]

Reggie already told me and i accepted his idea of Kidd being Luffy's rival

However my points still stand
1. being rival doesnt necessarily mean they are equals. Vista is zoro's rival, and he is currently stronger than zoro in my eyes. And BB is luffy's ultimate rival
2. Kidd and Luffy will definitely be on the same tier by EoS imo, but doesnt necessarily they are on the same tier as of now.

1. To be a proper rival implies at least being on a comparable level, rivalry also forms on a personal level that's why Zoro and Vista are not rivals: they never met each other, they just share the dream to become the WSS but there's not the build up present in Luffy-Kidd dynamic
2. I basically answered to this in my 1st statement

Btw I suggest you to read the 'possible future implications for Kidd character' at the bottom of the thread (I don't think you readed that part)

 

[Luffy is the mc]

You might’ve had a point, if Kidd had the same portrayal as Law. But he doesn’t. And he never did and never will. From the arc the supernova were introduced Kidd has had batter portrayal than Law and that hasn’t changed. Remember this. Oda didn’t give Kidd CoC for no reason. Come back to this after Wano.

To be fair, back in dressrosa people were saying that Law was stronger than Luffy and that he would be the one to defeat Doflamingo. I also see all out Luffy mid diffing all out Kidd but that's already impressive for Kidd, it would mean he is YC 1 level.

 

[imacub]

1. To be a proper rival implies at least being on a comparable level, rivalry also forms on a personal level that's why Zoro and Vista are not rivals: they never met each other, they just share the dream to become the WSS but there's not the build up present in Luffy-Kidd dynamic
2. I basically answered to this in my 1st statement

Btw I suggest you to read the 'possible future implications for Kidd character' at the bottom of the thread (I don't think you readed that part)

1. No, according to dictionary, sharing the same dream is enough to be a rival, doesnt necessarily mean they are equals
2. I just did, and highly possible. However, i still see BB being luffy's ultimate rival, i dont see Oda killing BB after all he has done. And this doesnt answer why they are on the same tier currently