Agendas are rampant at the moment, the last few chapters have really throw a wrench in the power scaling section. People are being dishonest or just trolling now most of the time. I will list the agendas and relevant supporting reasons used by respective fanbases for it and then try to make sense of the mess.
Agenda 1, Garp: How strong is he? Is he stronger than Rayleigh? Was he stronger than Akainu in MF? Is he stronger than Kuzan?
Average expected fanbase: Luffy fans, Marine/Admiral fans, OG OP fans
Wank reason: Galaxy Impact/ACoC, breaking free of Ice Ball, blitzing Kuzan and throwing him down multiple floors?
Reasonable takes: Prime Garp =/~ Prime Roger, Admirals > MF Garp , Kuzan > Old Garp >~ Old Ray
Reasons:
1. Portrayal that Garp was face of Old Gen marines and Roger was of pirates, they nearly killed each other etc.
2. Garp was no longer in his prime, he already commented at end of W7/EL that he was weaker (confirmed again this chapter)
3. Kuzan is still in prime, Garp has gotten older, Ray is not as active as Garp so he might be slightly weaker
Agenda 2, Kuzan: How strong is he? Where does he rank in the crew?
Average expected fanbase: Marine/Admiral fans, Anti-Zoro/Sword fans
Wank reason: ex Admiral, went ext diff with Akainu/FA
Reasonable takes: Same tier as Prime Yonkos/Admirals, stronger than Old Guys (Garp, Ray, Sengoku), slightly weaker than the top guys like Mihawk/Shanks/Akainu
Reasons:
1. He fought the current FA (the current face of the marines in terms of power) for 10 days 2 years ago, no way is he not amongst the strongest.
2. The guys above him are top of the top, Akainu defeated him, Shanks is the golden boy and sort of the counter part of Akainu and Mihawk > Shanks
3. The fight has just begun between him and Garp, not gonna let this make me think that Garp will beat Kuzan
Agenda 3, Shiryu: How strong is he? Where does he rank in the crew?
Average expected fanbase: Sword/Zoro fans, some true fans
Wank reason: Expected Zoro opponent, 1031 cover page and SBS, Equal to Magellan pre DF
Reasonable takes: He is a wildcard cause there is very little know about him, can be anywhere between BB - Kata (around Benn though, another wildcard)
Reasons:
1. There is no definite scale for this guy, he barely has any showings
2. Said to be equal to Magellan (but deadlier) pre TS and pre DF, the same Magellan one shot BB (Yami BB who defeated Ace) and his crew in ID
3. Narrative and expected portrayal that BBPs will rival RHPs and SHPs will have to fight him with Zoro the most likely opponent, the same Zoro who is anywhere between mid and low top tier
As fun as it seems to push agendas and troll the other fanbase, recently I read in another thread that certain characters (Kata, Zoro) have been ruined for members of the fanbase because some other fans are just wanking too much. For the characters mentioned above we have feats and portrayal for Garp and Kuzan while for Shiryu there is only portrayal or narrative hype (similar to Benn). At this point it makes no sense to push characters with no feats or solid portrayal over others or vice versa. Neither character has had a fight against each other or against similar opponent.
I mean for all intents and purposes you could make the argument that BB is the third strongest in his crew (just saying that somebody can do that not that I am pushing this agenda), Kuzan is almost equal to the current FA (he has one less leg so I say he is weaker than before) the same guy who scared BBPs away (including Shiryu) so we have established that Kuzan > BB/Shiryu while we have Shiryu who was equal (now stronger) to the guy who one shot pre TS BBPs (Yami BB) so Shiryu > BB. Hence we can say that Kuzan > Shiryu > BB.
We can also say that BB >/= Shiryu > Kuzan (the current overwanked agenda) because BB is the captain hence the strongest (retarded take) and Shiryu is confirmed second strongest due to 1031 hence the ranking.
My conclusion from the info so far is that there is no conclusive evidence to put either of these guys over the other. You can't say that Kuzan is weaker than BB, there is no proof of that, you also can't say that Shiryu is weaker than BB (specially when Shiryu has no feats/anti-feats). And there is also no comparison between Kuzan and Shiryu.
I expect that Shiryu will be the strongest/second strongest after BB in the crew because he will be Zoro opponent. Kuzan will not be a part of the BBPs vs SHPs. Oda would not have spoiled the Kuzan thing like that, specially if he planned to introduce him this way, so the cover of 1031 does not or should not be used in Shiryu > Kuzan thing.
A few notable things:
1. IIRC Lafitte and Shiryu are the only ones who do not have any weak showings/anti-feats like Burgess against Sabo or most of the commanders getting frozen by Kuzan
2. Somewhere it was mentioned (maybe Ace Novel) that BB wanted to eat the Clear Clear fruit so maybe it is also something special like the Dark Dark fruit and the reason why Oda gave it to Shiryu.
3. What is the reason that Shiryu is shown on the cover of 1031?
Agenda 1, Garp: How strong is he? Is he stronger than Rayleigh? Was he stronger than Akainu in MF? Is he stronger than Kuzan?
Average expected fanbase: Luffy fans, Marine/Admiral fans, OG OP fans
Wank reason: Galaxy Impact/ACoC, breaking free of Ice Ball, blitzing Kuzan and throwing him down multiple floors?
Reasonable takes: Prime Garp =/~ Prime Roger, Admirals > MF Garp , Kuzan > Old Garp >~ Old Ray
Reasons:
1. Portrayal that Garp was face of Old Gen marines and Roger was of pirates, they nearly killed each other etc.
2. Garp was no longer in his prime, he already commented at end of W7/EL that he was weaker (confirmed again this chapter)
3. Kuzan is still in prime, Garp has gotten older, Ray is not as active as Garp so he might be slightly weaker
Agenda 2, Kuzan: How strong is he? Where does he rank in the crew?
Average expected fanbase: Marine/Admiral fans, Anti-Zoro/Sword fans
Wank reason: ex Admiral, went ext diff with Akainu/FA
Reasonable takes: Same tier as Prime Yonkos/Admirals, stronger than Old Guys (Garp, Ray, Sengoku), slightly weaker than the top guys like Mihawk/Shanks/Akainu
Reasons:
1. He fought the current FA (the current face of the marines in terms of power) for 10 days 2 years ago, no way is he not amongst the strongest.
2. The guys above him are top of the top, Akainu defeated him, Shanks is the golden boy and sort of the counter part of Akainu and Mihawk > Shanks
3. The fight has just begun between him and Garp, not gonna let this make me think that Garp will beat Kuzan
Agenda 3, Shiryu: How strong is he? Where does he rank in the crew?
Average expected fanbase: Sword/Zoro fans, some true fans
Wank reason: Expected Zoro opponent, 1031 cover page and SBS, Equal to Magellan pre DF
Reasonable takes: He is a wildcard cause there is very little know about him, can be anywhere between BB - Kata (around Benn though, another wildcard)
Reasons:
1. There is no definite scale for this guy, he barely has any showings
2. Said to be equal to Magellan (but deadlier) pre TS and pre DF, the same Magellan one shot BB (Yami BB who defeated Ace) and his crew in ID
3. Narrative and expected portrayal that BBPs will rival RHPs and SHPs will have to fight him with Zoro the most likely opponent, the same Zoro who is anywhere between mid and low top tier
As fun as it seems to push agendas and troll the other fanbase, recently I read in another thread that certain characters (Kata, Zoro) have been ruined for members of the fanbase because some other fans are just wanking too much. For the characters mentioned above we have feats and portrayal for Garp and Kuzan while for Shiryu there is only portrayal or narrative hype (similar to Benn). At this point it makes no sense to push characters with no feats or solid portrayal over others or vice versa. Neither character has had a fight against each other or against similar opponent.
I mean for all intents and purposes you could make the argument that BB is the third strongest in his crew (just saying that somebody can do that not that I am pushing this agenda), Kuzan is almost equal to the current FA (he has one less leg so I say he is weaker than before) the same guy who scared BBPs away (including Shiryu) so we have established that Kuzan > BB/Shiryu while we have Shiryu who was equal (now stronger) to the guy who one shot pre TS BBPs (Yami BB) so Shiryu > BB. Hence we can say that Kuzan > Shiryu > BB.
We can also say that BB >/= Shiryu > Kuzan (the current overwanked agenda) because BB is the captain hence the strongest (retarded take) and Shiryu is confirmed second strongest due to 1031 hence the ranking.
My conclusion from the info so far is that there is no conclusive evidence to put either of these guys over the other. You can't say that Kuzan is weaker than BB, there is no proof of that, you also can't say that Shiryu is weaker than BB (specially when Shiryu has no feats/anti-feats). And there is also no comparison between Kuzan and Shiryu.
I expect that Shiryu will be the strongest/second strongest after BB in the crew because he will be Zoro opponent. Kuzan will not be a part of the BBPs vs SHPs. Oda would not have spoiled the Kuzan thing like that, specially if he planned to introduce him this way, so the cover of 1031 does not or should not be used in Shiryu > Kuzan thing.
A few notable things:
1. IIRC Lafitte and Shiryu are the only ones who do not have any weak showings/anti-feats like Burgess against Sabo or most of the commanders getting frozen by Kuzan
2. Somewhere it was mentioned (maybe Ace Novel) that BB wanted to eat the Clear Clear fruit so maybe it is also something special like the Dark Dark fruit and the reason why Oda gave it to Shiryu.
3. What is the reason that Shiryu is shown on the cover of 1031?
