Current Events The Supernova Have Been Fighting Hybrid Kaido and Mama for a While

[matt245]

Let's be honest, no matter how you look at it, it doesn't make any sense. This can't be the exact moment Kaido went hybrid form for what they say in the latest chapter but the 5SN can't even be able to hold two emperors for a bunch of minutes. Human Kaido destroyed the scabbards (sulong dukes included) and oneshotted G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano, and that Luffy is clearly above any version of the other 4 supernova.

Now they are against hybrid Kaido and Big Mom, can you imagine thinking hakiless Luffy, no asura Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law are so much stronger than 18 scabbards (twice the emperors, twice the scabbards)?






BM is going elsewhere, they are going down to Kaido alone. Then the other fighters are going to help them.

It makes -2000 sense. Keep trying ig

 

[Patryipe]

Let's be honest, no matter how you look at it, it doesn't make any sense. This can't be the exact moment Kaido went hybrid form for what they say in the latest chapter but the 5SN can't even be able to hold two emperors for a bunch of minutes. Human Kaido destroyed the scabbards (sulong dukes included) and oneshotted G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano, and that Luffy is clearly above any version of the other 4 supernova.

Now they are against hybrid Kaido and Big Mom, can you imagine thinking hakiless Luffy, no asura Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law are so much stronger than 18 scabbards (twice the emperors, twice the scabbards)?






BM is going elsewhere, they are going down to Kaido alone. Then the other fighters are going to help them.

I know you're used to lower standards given you're focused on Sanji, the boys on the rooftop though are built different.

 

[Enma]

Let's be honest, no matter how you look at it, it doesn't make any sense. This can't be the exact moment Kaido went hybrid form for what they say in the latest chapter but the 5SN can't even be able to hold two emperors for a bunch of minutes. Human Kaido destroyed the scabbards (sulong dukes included) and oneshotted G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano, and that Luffy is clearly above any version of the other 4 supernova.

Now they are against hybrid Kaido and Big Mom, can you imagine thinking hakiless Luffy, no asura Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law are so much stronger than 18 scabbards (twice the emperors, twice the scabbards)?






BM is going elsewhere, they are going down to Kaido alone. Then the other fighters are going to help them.

It's easy to make sense of it, stop downplaying R5, they are not some schmucks like Scabbards.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

The Yonko are not really serious though, they are having fun.

They seem to stand at a fair distance away from the SN's and embrace all of their attempts to attack them, sending them packing as was exemplified with Luffy when they do.

It's a scenario where the SN's are made to feel powerless in their attempts to harm the Yonko, making them question if they are even human. They literally describe it like being in Hell.

If the two Yonko were actually seriously going for the kill and doing their best to end the fight quickly, as things stand the SN would be fucked. What works in their favor is that the Yonko enjoy crushing their efforts and making them feel despair due to their inability to fight back.

That's highlited through Kaido pointing out that Luffy's eyes alone have yet to lose their fire

even in this hellish situation, in spite of them trying to break his spirit.

As the other SN's have pointed out, they need to split the Yonko. As things are right now, they stand absolutely no chance to defeat them.

 

[matt245]

I know you're used to lower standards given you're focused on Sanji, the boys on the rooftop though are built different.

Nailed it

Post automatically merged: Mar 26, 2021

The Yonko are not really serious though, they are having fun.

They seem to stand at a fair distance away from the SN's and embrace all of their attempts to attack them, sending them packing as was exemplified with Luffy when they do.

It's a scenario where the SN's are made to feel powerless in their attempts to harm the Yonko, making them question if they are even human. They literally describe it like being in Hell.

If the two Yonko were actually seriously going for the kill and doing their best to end the fight quickly, as things stand the SN would be fucked. What works in their favor is that the Yonko enjoy crushing their efforts and making them feel despair due to their inability to fight back.

That's highlited through Kaido pointing out that Luffy's eyes alone have yet to lose their fire

even in this hellish situation, in spite of them trying to break his spirit.

As the other SN's have pointed out, they need to split the Yonko. As things are right now, they stand absolutely no chance to defeat them.

Correct, but to claim that the Yonkos where posing all this time is also false.

 

[Finalbeta]

Hmmm judging from Dressrosa kind of time, probably not much really.

We could attempt to rely on past examples of passing of time albeit this is not a firm indicator.

 

[Kuro Ashi]

Nailed it

Post automatically merged: Mar 26, 2021

Correct, but to claim that the Yonkos where posing all this time is also false.

I wouldn't say posing, but it does seem to be more of a "come at me" deal where the Yonko have fun crushing the SN's attempts.

Even after Big Mom somehow get's removed the battle with Kaido will be extremely difficult, even with the SN's potentially getting more reinforcements like Yamato, so Oda's showing us how hopeless it would be to fight both Yonko at the same time, without outright getting Luffy and the others killed, since that obviously can't really happen.

 

[Just a member]

Who knows? Some tens of minutes most likely. Anyway Kaido and BM are waiting to see if the SN can actually entertain them and to what extent. Eventually they will most likely lose but the yonkos are not fully serious yet while the SN5 have to come up with some bew tactic to try to snatch victory.

 

[matt245]

I wouldn't say posing, but it does seem to be more of a "come at me" deal where the Yonko have fun crushing the SN's attempts.

Even after Big Mom somehow get's removed the battle with Kaido will be extremely difficult, even with the SN's potentially getting more reinforcements like Yamato, so Oda's showing us how hopeless it would be to fight both Yonko at the same time, without outright getting Luffy and the others killed, since that obviously can't really happen.

Imo if you remove BM the SN would gang and obliterate Kaido.

 

[Adam 🍎]

Big Mom and Kaido are having time of their lives taking their sweet time torturing the a lesson.

Kaido has few bruises and not an ounce of bleeding or signs of being tired and Big Mom doesnt even have an injury

Meanwhile SN look like hell.

It is obv to any non fan fav blinded readwr that Yonkos arent even trying wheres SN are fighting for their life

 

[Kuro Ashi]

Imo if you remove BM the SN would gang and obliterate Kaido.

We're going to see Big Mom get removed, and i'd put money on the fact that Kaido will not get oblitarated after that happens, but a tough battle will ensue

 

[Sir Yasheen]

It’s been less than ten minutes as Luffys haki hasn’t returned...

 

[Cinera]

Nah disagree. He was shown attacking in Base and we would've known if he used up another round of G4. Luffy attacked in Base.

I was thinking that Luffy might have used Boundman for just one attack (it looks like he was deflated). Alternatively, if it's not him releasing Boundman, then he's just that tired.

Black Lightning does not indicate Haki, it indicates critical strikes:

Hybrid Kaido is critically striking Haki-less Luffy and failing to defeat him.

Aah, it might not be haki then. That Luffy is Hakiless is unsubstantiated though. Post Boundman Luffy could not move at all and was being literally carried around by Zoro. Now, Luffy is up and fighting. It's just not plausible that he's still regaining his haki. Especially not given how long they've been fighting (several tens of minutes at the bare minimum).

 

[Sir Yasheen]

I was thinking that Luffy might have used Boundman for just one attack (it looks like he was deflated). Alternatively, if it's not him releasing Boundman, then he's just that tired.



Aah, it might not be haki then. That Luffy is Hakiless is unsubstantiated though. Post Boundman Luffy could not move at all and was being literally carried around by Zoro. Now, Luffy is up and fighting. It's just not plausible that he's still regaining his haki. Especially not given how long they've been fighting (several tens of minutes at the bare minimum).

Luffy fought Katakuri and ran away from him while being out of haki. Luffy is able to get up after gear 4 and keep fighting. And since Luffy didn’t use haki it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t have it yet.

 

[Cinera]

Let's be honest, no matter how you look at it, it doesn't make any sense. This can't be the exact moment Kaido went hybrid form for what they say in the latest chapter but the 5SN can't even be able to hold two emperors for a bunch of minutes. Human Kaido destroyed the scabbards (sulong dukes included) and oneshotted G4 Luffy at the beginning of Wano, and that Luffy is clearly above any version of the other 4 supernova.

Now they are against hybrid Kaido and Big Mom, can you imagine thinking hakiless Luffy, no asura Zoro, Kid, Killer and Law are so much stronger than 18 scabbards (twice the emperors, twice the scabbards)?

1. Your powerscaling is just wrong.
2. Luffy has long since recovered his haki.

Your mistake is thinking that Pre Udon Luffy is "clearly above any version of the other 4 Supernova". That's straight up false, and this chapter showed it.

That's highlited through Kaido pointing out that Luffy's eyes alone have yet to lose their fire

Kaido did not say that Luffy's eyes alone have not lost their fire.

If the two Yonko were actually seriously going for the kill and doing their best to end the fight quickly, as things stand the SN would be fucked. What works in their favor is that the Yonko enjoy crushing their efforts and making them feel despair due to their inability to fight back.

I dunno, this sounds like excuses for the Yonkou not defeating the Supernova to me. Like you wouldn't come to this conclusion unless you believed that the Yonkou can obliterate the Supernova, so plot must be preventing them from doing so.

The problem with your explanation is that it assumes the Yonkou can destroy the Supernova. Without that assumption, that's not a conclusion you can reach given the little information we've seen so far.

aido has few bruises and not an ounce of bleeding or signs of being tired and Big Mom doesnt even have an injury

• The Yonkou can fight for days while the Supernova haven't demonstrated that ability.
• Mama is clean because 90% of the attacks have been directed at Kaido.

 

[Bogard]

Marco's battle against King and Queen

• The battle has gone on for so long that Marco is tired

The events you brought up give no timeframe confirmation. Infact this point in particular doesn't help in anything considering Marco has been fighting King and Queen since chapter 1000, the time when he sent Zoro to the roof

The rooftop battle started afterwards, with them fighting for some time, Luffy going G4, with them fighting for a long while, Luffy running out of the G4, before Oda showing what is happening inside the roof(including what's going on between Marco and King/Queen)

We know however that Luffy has a 10minute timelimit after using G4, and from what we've seen, Luffy is still fighting in base. We literally see Luffy in base(upper left panel) before being sent flying(middle panel) and still looking in base(bottom right panel) in a continuous panel sequence

Spoiler

There was no use of G4 at all

In the same panel we see him attempting to attack with his gomu gomu no attack, and sent relying once again in base

Spoiler

So either, his haki didn't come back yet, or he is reserving G4 for later, but the latter doesn't make sense considering they've been aiming for dealing meaningful damage, and thus not going for his strongest mode when it could be helpful to perform the task doesn't make sense unless we're simply still within his 10min timeframe for him to recover his haki

 

[HA001]

The events you brought up give no timeframe confirmation. Infact this point in particular doesn't help in anything considering Marco has been fighting King and Queen since chapter 1000, the time when he sent Zoro to the roof

The rooftop battle started afterwards, with them fighting for some time, Luffy going G4, with them fighting for a long while, Luffy running out of the G4, before Oda showing what is happening inside the roof(including what's going on between Marco and King/Queen)

We know however that Luffy has a 10minute timelimit after using G4, and from what we've seen, Luffy is still fighting in base. We literally see Luffy in base(upper left panel) before being sent flying(middle panel) and still looking in base(bottom right panel) in a continuous panel sequence

Spoiler

There was no use of G4 at all

In the same panel we see him attempting to attack with his gomu gomu no attack, and sent relying once again in base

Spoiler

So either, his haki didn't come back yet, or he is reserving G4 for later, but the latter doesn't make sense considering they've been aiming for dealing meaningful damage, and thus not going for his strongest mode when it could be helpful to perform the task doesn't make sense unless we're simply still within his 10min timeframe for him to recover his haki

Why would luffy thinks his attacks were doing damage in base without haki ?

 

[Adam 🍎]

• The Yonkou can fight for days while the Supernova haven't demonstrated that ability.
• Mama is clean because 90% of the attacks have been directed at Kaido

Yeah so? SN are obv outmatched heavily while BM and Kaido play with their food

 

[Kuro Ashi]

Kaido did not say that Luffy's eyes alone have not lost their fire.



I dunno, this sounds like excuses for the Yonkou not defeating the Supernova to me. Like you wouldn't come to this conclusion unless you believed that the Yonkou can obliterate the Supernova, so plot must be preventing them from doing so.

Well it goes hand in hand with him being the only one stupidly throwing himself at the two Yonko to no avail at this point, while the others had given up on that, question their ability to even harm them, and are focused on finding an alternative route, trying to find a way to get rid of one of the two Yonko, because this situation is a hellish one for them.

I draw that conclusion from the image Oda's painting for us. The SN's giving up on fighting both Yonko and thinking their efforts are futile, while the Yonko are enjoying themselves, waiting for the SN's to give their best shots, only to throw them back against the wall time and time again, checking to see if they still have any fighting spirit left in them afterwards.

 

[Cinera]

It’s been less than ten minutes as Luffys haki hasn’t returned...

Luffy fought Katakuri and ran away from him while being out of haki. Luffy is able to get up after gear 4 and keep fighting. And since Luffy didn’t use haki it’s pretty obvious he doesn’t have it yet.

How do you know Luffy didn't use haki?

But Luffy Didn't Use Haki

Spoiler

Some people claim that the ten minutes cannot have run out yet, because Luffy was supposedly still unable to use haki. As far as I'm aware, that argument is based on faulty premises.

Luffy's Haki Usage(?)

Spoiler

When Luffy struck Kaido, we see black lightning:

Black lightning isn't always indicative of haki usage, but it's commonly seen in haki clashes.

Hakiless Luffy

Spoiler

This is Luffy after he ran out of G4 against Kaido:

Spoiler

He couldn't even dodge Mama's attack by himself and had to be carried by Zoro:

Spoiler

He's once again carried away from danger by Zoro:

Spoiler

Zoro once again carries Luffy and Luffy is helpless in Kaido's tornado:

Spoiler

He can't even prevent himself from being bitten:

Spoiler

Luffy is once again dead weight that can't do anything by himself:

Spoiler

Zoro has to once again carry Luffy and dodge Kaido's attacks:

Spoiler

Luffy is once again utterly spent:

Spoiler

Current Luffy

Spoiler

Compare the Luffy I just showed you (post-Boundman cooldown), to Luffy in this chapter.

He attacks Kaido head-on:

Spoiler

He gets rejected:

Spoiler

After getting rejected, he attacks Kaido again, stating that he believes their attacks should be working:

Spoiler

He's once again rejected:

Spoiler

Notice how Zoro isn't literally carrying him around like he's a sack of potatoes? How Zoro is instead cautioning him to think before brashly attacking the Yonkou?

Luffy still has the energy to scream and shout:

Spoiler

In contrast to his utter exhaustion in 1003, he defiantly smiles in 1008:

Spoiler

The Difference

Spoiler

Luffy in Chapter 1003	Luffy in Chapter 1008
He could not do anything by himself	He was the most energetic of the Rooftop Supernova.
Zoro had to save him five times in the chapter.	He attacked Kaido by himself twice.
Zoro was worried for his safety.	Zoro was chastising him to think before brashly attacking the Yonkou.
He had a look of utter exhaustion when he saw Kaido.	He had a defiant grin when he locked eyes with Kaido.

The fact is that Post Boundman Luffy was a sack of potatoes that could not even lift a single finger by himself and was constantly carried around by Zoro. In this chapter we see him attack Kaido head-on twice. To claim that Luffy went from being a sack of potatoes to the most energetic of the Supernova while he still can't use haki is unfathomably stupid.