Powers & Abilities The supposed Lethality of attacks means nothing in One Piece.
- Thread starter Dettles
- Start date
You're saying Lufgy would've walked it off?
I'm asking for details here
What exactly do you believe would've happened to Luffy.
Give exact details.
Would Luffy tank it? Would he be slightly injured? Would he require a doctor (he survived the thunder bagua without a doctor) or would Luffy lose a limb or maybe he would die
Remember The most effective attack Katakuri used on Luffy was his spear. After 9 hours of punching, one spear attack did more damage to Luffy than anything else
@PurpleSwordsman
How come Katakuri's one Spear attack tore clean through Luffy when 9 hours of punching barely did anything
But a ypnkou who is MUCH faster and stronger than Katakuri and luffy combined does LESS DAMAGE than the spear?
@WesMidnight we
What are you saying here?
That Luffy chose not to use future sight on Kaido when he used a club?
What exactly is different here? Isn't Kaido just fast and stronger than Luffy? Are you satin if Kaido uses a sword, he becomes Weaker or slower than when he uses a club?
And BTW, my question is regarding the point of the thread. The point of the thread is lethality. Meaning Luffy supposedly can tank a yonko punch as well as a yonko sword slash.
@Midnight Delight
This isn't true. Zoro never killed the bounty hunters. We literally see him stop himself from hurting the bounty hunters too badly mid combat. He actually says it himself.
Also we have literal proof that Zoro holds back in his final fights. Zoro cut pica with a technique which we know was not anywhere near his strongest and beat pica. I mean if Zoro was so up for killing why didn't he use ISDS on Pica?
Zoro kills when he decides he wants to kill. That is different from "Every attack from Zoro kills". He killed the magistrate and Mr. 7 because he wanted to kill them.
He doesn't just accidentally kill everybody in his path who he cuts
I'm asking for details here
What exactly do you believe would've happened to Luffy.
Give exact details.
Would Luffy tank it? Would he be slightly injured? Would he require a doctor (he survived the thunder bagua without a doctor) or would Luffy lose a limb or maybe he would die
Remember The most effective attack Katakuri used on Luffy was his spear. After 9 hours of punching, one spear attack did more damage to Luffy than anything else
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@PurpleSwordsman
How come Katakuri's one Spear attack tore clean through Luffy when 9 hours of punching barely did anything
But a ypnkou who is MUCH faster and stronger than Katakuri and luffy combined does LESS DAMAGE than the spear?
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@WesMidnight we
What are you saying here?
That Luffy chose not to use future sight on Kaido when he used a club?
What exactly is different here? Isn't Kaido just fast and stronger than Luffy? Are you satin if Kaido uses a sword, he becomes Weaker or slower than when he uses a club?
And BTW, my question is regarding the point of the thread. The point of the thread is lethality. Meaning Luffy supposedly can tank a yonko punch as well as a yonko sword slash.
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@Midnight Delight
This isn't true. Zoro never killed the bounty hunters. We literally see him stop himself from hurting the bounty hunters too badly mid combat. He actually says it himself.
Also we have literal proof that Zoro holds back in his final fights. Zoro cut pica with a technique which we know was not anywhere near his strongest and beat pica. I mean if Zoro was so up for killing why didn't he use ISDS on Pica?
Zoro kills when he decides he wants to kill. That is different from "Every attack from Zoro kills". He killed the magistrate and Mr. 7 because he wanted to kill them.
He doesn't just accidentally kill everybody in his path who he cuts
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Nothing will have change.
Oda doesn't care about consitency if you think he does I can't help you.
His goal was to show us Kaido was really powerful and Luffy should train. Job done he didn't need to do more neither with a club or a sword.
How did he get bandage on his head ?
A doctor.
Moreover Kaido didn't need to kill him. He wan't luffy as an underling.
Zangiri Mochi isn't a spear. Update your facts.
And Katakuri didn't use that spear the same way you people use swords. He didn't cut he pierced Luffy.
Oda doesn't care about consitency if you think he does I can't help you.
His goal was to show us Kaido was really powerful and Luffy should train. Job done he didn't need to do more neither with a club or a sword.
How did he get bandage on his head ?
A doctor.
Moreover Kaido didn't need to kill him. He wan't luffy as an underling.
Zangiri Mochi isn't a spear. Update your facts.
And Katakuri didn't use that spear the same way you people use swords. He didn't cut he pierced Luffy.
But there's a difference.
The difference is story intent.
The story intent for Zoro vs mihawk is that Mihawk, HELD BACK.
I don't think anyone saw Kaido vs Luffy and thought, Kaido held back. That thunder bagua from the looks of it was Kaido deciding to put Luffy down and the fact that luffy survived is Luffy flexing his best stat, Endurance. Or specifically, ENDURANCE AGAINST BLUNT FORCE.
Now Luffy is not stated to have Remarkable endurance to Slashing right?
So if a Yonko with no intention to let Luffy leave uses a seemingly deadly sword slash on luffy and then Luffy who doesn't have severe endurance to slashes, just tanks it no issue, isn't that a bit different than Luffy tanking blunt force or Mihawk intentionally not wanting to hurt Zoro too badly?
I mean surely Luffy's blunt force resistance doesnt magically transfer to slash resistance and Oda know that. Like according to you guys, luffy could've just as easily be ranking Elbaf spears as well
The difference is story intent.
The story intent for Zoro vs mihawk is that Mihawk, HELD BACK.
I don't think anyone saw Kaido vs Luffy and thought, Kaido held back. That thunder bagua from the looks of it was Kaido deciding to put Luffy down and the fact that luffy survived is Luffy flexing his best stat, Endurance. Or specifically, ENDURANCE AGAINST BLUNT FORCE.
Now Luffy is not stated to have Remarkable endurance to Slashing right?
So if a Yonko with no intention to let Luffy leave uses a seemingly deadly sword slash on luffy and then Luffy who doesn't have severe endurance to slashes, just tanks it no issue, isn't that a bit different than Luffy tanking blunt force or Mihawk intentionally not wanting to hurt Zoro too badly?
I mean surely Luffy's blunt force resistance doesnt magically transfer to slash resistance and Oda know that. Like according to you guys, luffy could've just as easily be ranking Elbaf spears as well
So you're saying in chapter two if Alvida switched her club with a sword, luff would just tank that the same way. Nothing would change. Point blank sword attack in his head.luff would be fine.
Strange how two chapters later when Axe hand Morgan tried that, luff made sure not to try tanking that and chose to dodge instead.
It's kind of weird then that after learning haki in fishman island, luffy specifically says "I still can't handle sharp objects" when Hody pierces luffy with his teeth even though Luffy could tank ALL of Hody's blunt attacks.
So Luffy is shown very clearly to be a tank of Blunt force but even post time skip he complains about cutting attacks
But Kaido knocks him out with blunt force. Kaido is so strong that he can knock Luffy out with a type of attack that we've seen Luffy tank before.
And when Kaido switches to a sword, which luffy both pretty and post time skip has said is weak to, Luffy gets the SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE.
Basically you're saying that somewhere along the way, Luffy's powers changed. He has the exact same resistance to blunt force as Cutting.
Hmm. Okay
Seems you're reading your own manga
@trav
But Zoro could just be STRONGER than Daz too. I mean that was pretty clear when they started fighting that In just plain stats Zoro was stronger and Daz only had durability saving him.
Like Daz was getting tossed around like a rag doll remember. Only his durability was a problem.
Whereas Mihawk can cut a mountain and chooses not to when he cuts Zoro.
And kaido manages to knock luffy out with BLUNT FORCE which luffy is extremely durable against but apparently to you, Luffy is as durable to BLUNT FORCE as he is to Cutting since there's supposedly no difference if a much stronger and faster person uses a cut on Luffy compared to a blunt force
Strange how two chapters later when Axe hand Morgan tried that, luff made sure not to try tanking that and chose to dodge instead.
It's kind of weird then that after learning haki in fishman island, luffy specifically says "I still can't handle sharp objects" when Hody pierces luffy with his teeth even though Luffy could tank ALL of Hody's blunt attacks.
So Luffy is shown very clearly to be a tank of Blunt force but even post time skip he complains about cutting attacks
But Kaido knocks him out with blunt force. Kaido is so strong that he can knock Luffy out with a type of attack that we've seen Luffy tank before.
And when Kaido switches to a sword, which luffy both pretty and post time skip has said is weak to, Luffy gets the SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE.
Basically you're saying that somewhere along the way, Luffy's powers changed. He has the exact same resistance to blunt force as Cutting.
Hmm. Okay
Seems you're reading your own manga
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@trav
But Zoro could just be STRONGER than Daz too. I mean that was pretty clear when they started fighting that In just plain stats Zoro was stronger and Daz only had durability saving him.
Like Daz was getting tossed around like a rag doll remember. Only his durability was a problem.
Whereas Mihawk can cut a mountain and chooses not to when he cuts Zoro.
And kaido manages to knock luffy out with BLUNT FORCE which luffy is extremely durable against but apparently to you, Luffy is as durable to BLUNT FORCE as he is to Cutting since there's supposedly no difference if a much stronger and faster person uses a cut on Luffy compared to a blunt force
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Luffy is immune to blunt attacks so obviously pre TS when haki wasn't introduced a sword would have more effects.
This isn't lethality it's just more effective as blunt attacks will be more effective on Daz Bones.
Also using luffy as a benchmark is a bad idea because it will mean that every attack is more lethal than ener.
It was a piercing attack as every bite. He said those stuffs not sharp attacks.
Preskip luffy fight against Kuro with his claws nothing, Cp9 and their Rankyaku nothing.
Post Skips against Doflamingo and his thread nothing.
It just show how inconsistent is lethality.
Because Doflamingo or Cp9 should have kill him with those direct hit.
Luffy is the only one who have Gomu Gomu no mi. They are not more lethal just more effective.
Luffy isn't a benchmark for lethality.
I said Oda is inconsistent with damages.
Moreover all your points where comparison of effecriveness on luffy.
How it matters for lethality to know what will harm luffy or not ?
You just misread the thread's title.
It's not what is the more effective on the Gomu Gomu no mi.
Using your Logic If Luffy get Bara Bara no mi or Daz DF swords will mean shit in OP ?
You focus too much on Luffy it's not the topic.
This isn't lethality it's just more effective as blunt attacks will be more effective on Daz Bones.
Also using luffy as a benchmark is a bad idea because it will mean that every attack is more lethal than ener.
It was a piercing attack as every bite. He said those stuffs not sharp attacks.
Preskip luffy fight against Kuro with his claws nothing, Cp9 and their Rankyaku nothing.
Post Skips against Doflamingo and his thread nothing.
It just show how inconsistent is lethality.
Because Doflamingo or Cp9 should have kill him with those direct hit.
Luffy is the only one who have Gomu Gomu no mi. They are not more lethal just more effective.
Luffy isn't a benchmark for lethality.
I said Oda is inconsistent with damages.
Moreover all your points where comparison of effecriveness on luffy.
How it matters for lethality to know what will harm luffy or not ?
You just misread the thread's title.
It's not what is the more effective on the Gomu Gomu no mi.
Using your Logic If Luffy get Bara Bara no mi or Daz DF swords will mean shit in OP ?
You focus too much on Luffy it's not the topic.
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What is the difference?
Are you saying There's a difference between Piercing and cutting when it comes to luffy's invulnerability.
You are saying that Luffy getting hit with a thunder Bagua level slash is equivalent to Him getting hit by Doffy's strings?
Okay do you know that Zoro doesn't have A devil fruit that grants him any durability buffs?
But the same Zoro was tanking Daz bones' slashes that were cutting up Concrete pillars.
Why is that?
You don't think that maybe ZORO IS STRONGER THAN DAZ BONES?
Zoro was just plainly stronger than Daz so even with NO HAKI and NO DEVIL FRUIT, Das could not cut through Zoro with his BUILDING CUTTING ATTACKS.
Plain and simple. You are stronger, you are more durable.
Then we get Doffy who was Rag dolled around by G4 Luffy like a bitch and then You say "Doffy wasnt cutting through luffy so cutting attacks barely affect luffy too"
Are you actually saying Kaido speed blitzing Luffy and one shotting him is equivalent to Doffy getting rag dolled by Luffy?
Let's make a comparison here.
If Daz bones was speed blitzing Zoro in Alabasta and was literally capable of one shotting Zoro with a PUNCH. Not even a cut. If it were possible for Daz bones to just PUNCH ZORO ONCE and knock him out, are you saying a cut from THAT Daz bones wouldn't have killed Zoro?
Like imagine a Daz bones with just a mere punch being able to hospitalise Zoro for days, and then a Daz bones that strong switches to his blades, you're saying he wouldn't have just KILLED Zoro instead?
So luffy is entirely eclipsed in strength and speed by Kaido to the point that Luffy can be finished off by blunt force which is stated to be Luffy's advantage. But when Kaido switches to use Luffy's direct disadvantage, there's no difference.
You think I don't know the premise of the thread but I do.
You're saying Oda doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to Lethality. And I'm arguing he does in this case.
Oda knows luffy is immune to blunt force so the first emperor luffy gets hit by is the one who uses blunt force. Instead of having Luffy get hit by Big mom's Elbaf spear
Oda knows for damn well that if Kaido used a sword there would have been a very big difference in the outcome
Are you saying There's a difference between Piercing and cutting when it comes to luffy's invulnerability.
You are saying that Luffy getting hit with a thunder Bagua level slash is equivalent to Him getting hit by Doffy's strings?
Okay do you know that Zoro doesn't have A devil fruit that grants him any durability buffs?
But the same Zoro was tanking Daz bones' slashes that were cutting up Concrete pillars.
Why is that?
You don't think that maybe ZORO IS STRONGER THAN DAZ BONES?
Zoro was just plainly stronger than Daz so even with NO HAKI and NO DEVIL FRUIT, Das could not cut through Zoro with his BUILDING CUTTING ATTACKS.
Plain and simple. You are stronger, you are more durable.
Then we get Doffy who was Rag dolled around by G4 Luffy like a bitch and then You say "Doffy wasnt cutting through luffy so cutting attacks barely affect luffy too"
Are you actually saying Kaido speed blitzing Luffy and one shotting him is equivalent to Doffy getting rag dolled by Luffy?
Let's make a comparison here.
If Daz bones was speed blitzing Zoro in Alabasta and was literally capable of one shotting Zoro with a PUNCH. Not even a cut. If it were possible for Daz bones to just PUNCH ZORO ONCE and knock him out, are you saying a cut from THAT Daz bones wouldn't have killed Zoro?
Like imagine a Daz bones with just a mere punch being able to hospitalise Zoro for days, and then a Daz bones that strong switches to his blades, you're saying he wouldn't have just KILLED Zoro instead?
So luffy is entirely eclipsed in strength and speed by Kaido to the point that Luffy can be finished off by blunt force which is stated to be Luffy's advantage. But when Kaido switches to use Luffy's direct disadvantage, there's no difference.
You think I don't know the premise of the thread but I do.
You're saying Oda doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to Lethality. And I'm arguing he does in this case.
Oda knows luffy is immune to blunt force so the first emperor luffy gets hit by is the one who uses blunt force. Instead of having Luffy get hit by Big mom's Elbaf spear
Oda knows for damn well that if Kaido used a sword there would have been a very big difference in the outcome
T
in that scene Luffy was required to remain unharmed. the sword would just miss/be dodged.
Kaidos club connected. as would his sword. and the wound is magically gone the moment he needs to fight again.
much like Zoros 4 inch hole in his shoulder that tore the pec muscle and went right through his shoulderblades
Daz is able to cut a stone pillar and a house into tiny pieces. on Zoros body he leaves superficial fleshwounds.
its simply not how OP works.
Kaidos club connected. as would his sword. and the wound is magically gone the moment he needs to fight again.
much like Zoros 4 inch hole in his shoulder that tore the pec muscle and went right through his shoulderblades
Daz is able to cut a stone pillar and a house into tiny pieces. on Zoros body he leaves superficial fleshwounds.
its simply not how OP works.
It's almost like Zoro is super human and maybe is more durable than concrete or something.
Maybe that explains why he's able to lift and throw buildings too.
I don't know. It almost kinda seems like superhuman exist in one piece. But maybe that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Anyway. If you believe that Luffy's durability against Blunt force somehow became equivalent to his Durability against cuts somewhere along the way then that's on your
Clearly you know something that was stated in the manga that I never saw.
Maybe that explains why he's able to lift and throw buildings too.
I don't know. It almost kinda seems like superhuman exist in one piece. But maybe that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Anyway. If you believe that Luffy's durability against Blunt force somehow became equivalent to his Durability against cuts somewhere along the way then that's on your
Clearly you know something that was stated in the manga that I never saw.
T
Zoro sat infront of the pillar and the pillar behind him got cut into slices. the cut clearly went past Zoro (through his body), yet he remained in 1 piece while the pillar did not.
yeah. Zoro is so superhuman and DURABLE that Buggy can easily ram a blade right through his lower torso.
straw manning.
I am just telling you how the manga has handled similar situations in the past and dismemberment is not something that happens frequently in OP. much luss having someone get split in half. and I mean really split in half. not like Vergo.
Killer got cut by Zoro who was surely not holding back at that moment and Killer is running arround perfectly fine right now.
same would happen if Kaido hit Luffy with a sword instead of a club.
yeah. Zoro is so superhuman and DURABLE that Buggy can easily ram a blade right through his lower torso.
straw manning.
I am just telling you how the manga has handled similar situations in the past and dismemberment is not something that happens frequently in OP. much luss having someone get split in half. and I mean really split in half. not like Vergo.
Killer got cut by Zoro who was surely not holding back at that moment and Killer is running arround perfectly fine right now.
same would happen if Kaido hit Luffy with a sword instead of a club.
Why are you so focus on Luffy ?
Luffy's case isn't absolute. It means nothing to lethality.
I repeat again lethality=/effectiveness Do you understand ?
By your logic Enel DF is non lethal.
It's not because Hody's tooth are sharp that a bite and a cut is the same thing.
A piercing attack require less strenght to harm luffy.
With a cut only cracker managed to harm luffy and it was tiny.
With a piercing attack both katakuri and Hody manages to harm him, Monet too I think.
Cutting attack : Rebecca Doflamingo and so on doesn't manage to harm him.
Therefore a piercing attack is more effective when luffy use CoA.
I just showed you how inconsistent are cutting attacks. You misread too much.
Why Doflamingo wasn't able to harm him despite his thread being really hard and sharp ?
It's your supposed lethality.
So Hody could pierce Luffy because he was stronger?
Doflamingo couldn't so he was weaker than hody?
Monet and hody > Doffy confirmed lmao
I will say nothing will change because Oda want a win from Daz, So Daz win.
The mean doesn't matter for Oda only the story does.
Basically you confirm that he could be a punch or a cut nothing the outcome will be the same, so lethality doesn't matters.
Yes. Why do you think something will have change ?
Do you think Kaido will have sliced luffy in half ? Cut him limbs ? Kill him ?
Why Oda wont do what he did with Jimbei ?
I mean he tank a swing from BM like nothing happened ?
You think Jimbei is stronger than Luffy ?
You think a Punch from BM which is as strong as Elbaf spear wont have K-O luffy ?
Luffy's case isn't absolute. It means nothing to lethality.
I repeat again lethality=/effectiveness Do you understand ?
By your logic Enel DF is non lethal.
It's not because Hody's tooth are sharp that a bite and a cut is the same thing.
A piercing attack require less strenght to harm luffy.
With a cut only cracker managed to harm luffy and it was tiny.
With a piercing attack both katakuri and Hody manages to harm him, Monet too I think.
Cutting attack : Rebecca Doflamingo and so on doesn't manage to harm him.
Therefore a piercing attack is more effective when luffy use CoA.
I just showed you how inconsistent are cutting attacks. You misread too much.
Why Doflamingo wasn't able to harm him despite his thread being really hard and sharp ?
It's your supposed lethality.
So Hody could pierce Luffy because he was stronger?
Doflamingo couldn't so he was weaker than hody?
Monet and hody > Doffy confirmed lmao
I will say nothing will change because Oda want a win from Daz, So Daz win.
The mean doesn't matter for Oda only the story does.
Basically you confirm that he could be a punch or a cut nothing the outcome will be the same, so lethality doesn't matters.
Yes. Why do you think something will have change ?
Do you think Kaido will have sliced luffy in half ? Cut him limbs ? Kill him ?
Why Oda wont do what he did with Jimbei ?
I mean he tank a swing from BM like nothing happened ?
You think Jimbei is stronger than Luffy ?
You think a Punch from BM which is as strong as Elbaf spear wont have K-O luffy ?