Character Discussion The vanity in Roronoa Zoro's approach to his dream.

[mly90]

I did not say that Zoro did not have WSS as his goal. Zoro has lost many times after that. Zoro's main goal is to help luffy become pirate king and that is not a bad thing. It goes against on what he promised Kuina since zoro's main focus was to be WSS. THAT IS WHY I SAID THAT ZORO BECOMING WSS IS VAIN BECAUSE IT IS NOT EVEN TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY ZORO.

Helping luffy reach his goal of being PK is paralleled with Zoro reaching his own goal, the only thing that changed is he carries a lot more on his shoulders now. How can you claim he isn't taking his quest to become the WSS despite the panels i showed that directly contradict that.
In dressrosa we had him tell Pica his own aspirations in this great panel but of course it's in vain because you say so, the author clearly disagrees.

 

[Pooth]

Helping luffy reach his goal of being PK is paralleled with Zoro reaching his own goal, the only thing that changed is he carries a lot more on his shoulders now. How can you claim he isn't taking his quest to become the WSS despite the panels i showed that directly contradict that.
In dressrosa we had him tell Pica his own aspirations in this great panel but of course it's in vain because you say so, the author clearly disagrees.

Zoro helping luffy become pirate king IN NO WAY IS PARALLELED with ZORO becoming WSS. As i said there are quality swordsmen fighters in which Luffy will not allow zoro to fight like fujitora and big mom. As i said Zoro gave up his ambition for luffy.

You probably wanna focus on the rest of your subpar baiting. I don’t want to distract you.

If you are so worried about me baiting instead of throwing 1 line comments become useful and partake

Post automatically merged: Jan 24, 2022

Chinjao's speech to luffy. Becoming the strongest is becoming pirateking

 

[bennbeckman]

Missing the point of how Zoro through all his sacrifices himself still aspires to be WSS and needs to do so in order to help Luffy become pirate king

 

[Pooth]

Missing the point of how Zoro through all his sacrifices himself still aspires to be WSS and needs to do so in order to help Luffy become pirate king

And you are missing the vanity in zoro's approach to become wss since zoro's primary goal is to make luffy pirate king. Zoro's primary duty is to be a good crewmate/vice-captaion/first commander whatever it is called. Zoro lacks volumes as a swordsman.

 

[bennbeckman]

And you are missing the vanity in zoro's approach to become wss since zoro's primary goal is to make luffy pirate king. Zoro's primary duty is to be a good crewmate/vice-captaion/first commander whatever it is called. Zoro lacks volumes as a swordsman.

His duty to help his captain become PK by default makes his goal pure vanity?

 

[Pooth]

His duty to help his captain become PK by default makes his goal pure vanity?

His primary duty is to help his captain become pirate king. To become pirate king luffy has to beat yonkos and admirals as stated by don chinjao. Some of those yonko and admirals are swordsmen zoro will not fight BUT zoro will fight mihawk which is the world's strongest swordsman which in turn makes zoro's goal vain. Zoro does not even respect other swordsmen just wants to fulfill his captains wishes which is okay but it makes the WSS achievement cheap. I do not know if I am conveying it correctly.

 

[bennbeckman]

His primary duty is to help his captain become pirate king. To become pirate king luffy has to beat yonkos and admirals as stated by don chinjao. Some of those yonko and admirals are swordsmen zoro will not fight BUT zoro will fight mihawk which is the world's strongest swordsman which in turn makes zoro's goal vain. Zoro does not even respect other swordsmen just wants to fulfill his captains wishes which is okay but it makes the WSS achievement cheap. I do not know if I am conveying it correctly.

It's a yes or no question... In your eyes his duty to help his captain become PK by default makes his goal of becoming WSS vanity?

After this I can address your post and explain how you are completely wrong

 

[Pooth]

It's a yes or no question... In your eyes his duty to help his captain become PK by default makes his goal of becoming WSS vanity?

If the captain is fighting swordsmen zoro should fight then it becomes vanity or at least anticlimactic. What is the point of zoro wanting to be the greatest when his captaid does the job for him ?

 

[bennbeckman]

If the captain is fighting swordsmen zoro should fight then it becomes vanity or at least anticlimactic. What is the point of zoro wanting to be the greatest when his captaid does the job for him ?

Why do you keep deflecting? I will keep asking in your eyes does Zoro's duty of helping his captain become PK by default make his goal of becoming WSS vanity? YES or NO?

Is Luffy going to fight Mihawk 1v1 at anypoint? NO

Zoro will fight Mihawk 1v1 that's who he needs to defeat to become WSS, it doesnt matter who else Zoro duels 1v1 until he defeats Mihawk, becuase Mihawk is the WSS and that's his goal

 

[Pooth]

Why do you keep deflecting? I will keep asking in your eyes does Zoro's duty of helping his captain become PK by default make his goal of becoming WSS vanity? YES or NO?

Is Luffy going to fight Mihawk 1v1 at anypoint? NO

Zoro will fight Mihawk 1v1 that's who he needs to defeat to become WSS, it doesnt matter who else Zoro duels 1v1 until he defeats Mihawk, becuase Mihawk is the WSS and that's his goal

I answered yes and i gave the reason why.

Zoro fighting mihawk without there being other people in a hirearchy to reach mihawk would make it feel vain would it not. Imagine if being pirate king did not require beating formiddable enemies like the yonkos. Luffy went around beating nobodies until there was crew he beat. Wouldn't that be anticlimactic?

 

[bennbeckman]

I answered yes and i gave the reason why.

Zoro fighting mihawk without there being other people in a hirearchy to reach mihawk would make it feel vain would it not. Imagine if being pirate king did not require beating formiddable enemies like the yonkos. Luffy went around beating nobodies until there was crew he beat. Wouldn't that be anticlimactic?

He doesnt need a heirarchy because Mihawk is at the top. He doesnt need any in betweens. Beating Mihawk is the greatest feat for Zoro and would help him reach his goal no matter how he did it.

It's like writing Luffy's achievement of PK would be in vain if Kidd and Law defeated Big Mom. that is like writing Roger didn't defeat Big Mom and stole her poneglyph so by that standard Roger getting PK is really Vanity.

Roger got all 4 poneglyphs and no one was able to take it from him and he became PK.

 

[Horo Horo Musume]

So what I'm gathering from this thread is you went into a pirate manga expecting a samurai manga. What you want from Zoro is for him to actively seek and fight all the strong swordsman on a vagrant's journey. You're disappointed that he isn't prioritizing every fight in which a sword shows up.

The biggest irony in all of this is what you're essentially hoping for is for Zoro to be the main character, which is what Zoro haters usually claim swordboys want. You want him to outshine Luffy if it means him getting a sword fight but you forget this a shonen where friendship and loyalty is a main theme.

I mean I don't know what to say, if you don't understand the appeal in Zoro being so loyal as to prioritize his friends over his own ambitions after 1000+ chapters it's pretty much a lost cause to convince you otherwise. Zoro disappointed you because he's not the character archetype you were hoping for, but rather instead he has more depth. Guess it's time to move on and stop hoping to mold Zoro into your wishes so you won't feel the need to lash out on him at every given occasion.

 

[Pooth]

He doesnt need a heirarchy because Mihawk is at the top. He doesnt need any in betweens. Beating Mihawk is the greatest feat for Zoro and would help him reach his goal no matter how he did it.

It's like writing Luffy's achievement of PK would be in vain if Kidd and Law defeated Big Mom. that is like writing Roger didn't defeat Big Mom and stole her poneglyph so by that standard Roger getting PK is really Vanity.

Roger got all 4 poneglyphs and no one was able to take it from him and he became PK.

Roger had to fight: Whitebeard, Sengoku, Garp , Xebec to get to that point. Zoro does not really have to fight anyone highlighted by oda except mihawk. There are 4 yonkos Luffy has Kaido and 2 others to fight. Zoro only has mihawk. Even the people he fights are not really known for their swordsmanship but for their piracy deeds.

Post automatically merged: Jan 24, 2022

So what I'm gathering from this thread is you went into a pirate manga expecting a samurai manga. What you want from Zoro is for him to actively seek and fight all the strong swordsman on a vagrant's journey. You're disappointed that he isn't prioritizing every fight in which a sword shows up.

The biggest irony in all of this is what you're essentially hoping for is for Zoro to be the main character, which is what Zoro haters usually claim swordboys want. You want him to outshine Luffy if it means him getting a sword fight but you forget this a shonen where friendship and loyalty is a main theme.

I mean I don't know what to say, if you don't understand the appeal in Zoro being so loyal as to prioritize his friends over his own ambitions after 1000+ chapters it's pretty much a lost cause to convince you otherwise. Zoro disappointed you because he's not the character archetype you were hoping for, but rather instead he has more depth. Guess it's time to move on and stop hoping to mold Zoro into your wishes so you won't feel the need to lash out on him at every given occasion.

I am not expecting Zoro to outshine luffy. I am expecting Zoro to be in awe with swordsmen and swordsmanship. I am expecting Zoro to be intrigued by others people fighting style like mihawk was with vista even if vista was weaker than him MIHAWK still wanted to check out Vista's style.

Zoro is a badly written swordsman character at every front. It is laughable the achievements zoro gets and the way Oda goes about it. Do not write a character that wants to be the world's greatest swordsman like that if you expect the main character to troll him.

I am amazed how Oda supporters will defend any inadequacy oda writes.

 

[HA001]

Roger had to fight: Whitebeard, Sengoku, Garp , Xebec to get to that point. Zoro does not really have to fight anyone highlighted by oda except mihawk. There are 4 yonkos Luffy has Kaido and 2 others to fight. Zoro only has mihawk. Even the people he fights are not really known for their swordsmanship but for their piracy deeds.

Post automatically merged: Jan 24, 2022

I am not expecting Zoro to outshine luffy. I am expecting Zoro to be in awe with swordsmen and swordsmanship. I am expecting Zoro to be intrigued by others people fighting style like mihawk was with vista even if vista was weaker than him MIHAWK still wanted to check out Vista's style.

Zoro is a badly written swordsman character at every front. It is laughable the achievements zoro gets and the way Oda goes about it. Do not write a character that wants to be the world's greatest swordsman like that if you expect the main character to troll him.

I am amazed how Oda supporters will defend any inadequacy oda writes.

Like he was with kinemons fox fire style which he then went on to learn lmfao

The only inadequacy is the number of brain cells you possess

 

[bennbeckman]

Roger had to fight: Whitebeard, Sengoku, Garp , Xebec to get to that point. Zoro does not really have to fight anyone highlighted by oda except mihawk. There are 4 yonkos Luffy has Kaido and 2 others to fight. Zoro only has mihawk. Even the people he fights are not really known for their swordsmanship but for their piracy deeds.

Post automatically merged: Jan 24, 2022

I am not expecting Zoro to outshine luffy. I am expecting Zoro to be in awe with swordsmen and swordsmanship. I am expecting Zoro to be intrigued by others people fighting style like mihawk was with vista even if vista was weaker than him MIHAWK still wanted to check out Vista's style.

Zoro is a badly written swordsman character at every front. It is laughable the achievements zoro gets and the way Oda goes about it. Do not write a character that wants to be the world's greatest swordsman like that if you expect the main character to troll him.

I am amazed how Oda supporters will defend any inadequacy oda writes.

He didnt fight everyone (Big Mom and Kaido) which disproves your point completely. Same with Luffy, by that same standard in your eyes if Luffy doesnt defeat evey Yonko it falls into your (Heirarchy POV).

This is completely false you dont need to defeat EVERY single Top tier to become the strongest.

Same with Zoro, he doesnt need to defeat every top tier to work his way to current WSS and defeat him. It doesnt matter the path as long as Zoro's goal of defeating Mihawk happens.

Your analysis on Zoro has no bearing nor is backed up by any manga facts. Hence why this is one of the worst Zoro takes I've ever seen. The fact that his goal is Vanity because he isnt achieving it the way you want him to is absolutely laughable

Koshiro said it best after Water 7... ill let you look up the quote and maybe then you can gain understanding of Zoro's path of the sword. You just dont get it because it doesnt fit your narrative

 

[Pooth]

Like he was with kinemons fox fire style which he then went on to learn lmfao

The only inadequacy is the number of brain cells you possess

Very cheap considering oda set Ryuuma's corpse on fire. I do not know why zoro needed to learn to cut fire when he kind of already knew but oda logic.

Post automatically merged: Jan 24, 2022

He didnt fight everyone (Big Mom and Kaido) which disproves your point completely. Same with Luffy, by that same standard in your eyes if Luffy doesnt defeat evey Yonko it falls into your (Heirarchy POV).

This is completely false you dont need to defeat EVERY single Top tier to become the strongest.

Same with Zoro, he doesnt need to defeat every top tier to work his way to current WSS and defeat him. It doesnt matter the path as long as Zoro's goal of defeating Mihawk happens.

Your analysis on Zoro has no bearing nor is backed up by any manga facts. Hence why this is one of the worst Zoro takes I've ever seen. The fact that his goal is Vanity because he isnt achieving it the way you want him to is absolutely laughable

Koshiro said it best after Water 7... ill let you look up the quote and maybe then you can gain understanding of Zoro's path of the sword. You just dont get it because it doesnt fit your narrative

I did not say Roger fought big mom or kaido. I did not say you need to defeat every top tier to become the strongest. Kaido is stronger than Big Mom which makes luffy become stronger than big mom. Then luffy moves on to blackbeard supposedly zoro moves on to shiryuu. Shiryuu is not stronger than mihawk or SHanks. Then luffy beats blackbeard who is still a top tier but stronger than kaido and big mom. Shiryuu not even close to shanks mihawk or blackbeard.

When we were in enies lobby Lucci was 2x stronger than Kaku. So if we go by that comparassion zoro is beating people who are half the level of mihawk and then is expected to fight mihawk on equal ground?

Baby I am making manga facts and posting panels what are you on about?

 

[Horo Horo Musume]

I am not expecting Zoro to outshine luffy. I am expecting Zoro to be in awe with swordsmen and swordsmanship. I am expecting Zoro to be intrigued by others people fighting style like mihawk was with vista even if vista was weaker than him MIHAWK still wanted to check out Vista's style.

Zoro is a badly written swordsman character at every front. It is laughable the achievements zoro gets and the way Oda goes about it. Do not write a character that wants to be the world's greatest swordsman like that if you expect the main character to troll him.

I am amazed how Oda supporters will defend any inadequacy oda writes.

You go again and prove my point. You expect Zoro to be written in a manner that is more akin to a different type of manga. Then you go on to accuse me of being an Oda supporter (like that is an insult) without even knowing my opinion on anything. Well of course I support Oda I'm invested in his manga and I continue to read it every week, I'd have to be some sort of masochist if I didn't enjoy One Piece. Does that mean I will unapologetically support all his writing like reddit does? No, I am also disappointed by a bunch of things but on the whole I find enough enjoyment in the manga.

But whatever, if you're already resorting to ad hominems after our first interaction I can pretty much assume you're just looking to be polemic and divisive on purpose. So either you're trolling and I'm wasting my time, or you're a masochist and want to enjoy One Piece and have Zoro become Ruronin in your avatar. If it's the latter then good luck on that and venting out your frustrations.

 

[Pooth]

You go again and prove my point. You expect Zoro to be written in a manner that is more akin to a different type of manga. Then you go on to accuse me of being an Oda supporter (like that is an insult) without even knowing my opinion on anything. Well of course I support Oda I'm invested in his manga and I continue to read it every week, I'd have to be some sort of masochist if I didn't enjoy One Piece. Does that mean I will unapologetically support all his writing like reddit does? No, I am also disappointed by a bunch of things but on the whole I find enough enjoyment in the manga.

But whatever, if you're already resorting to ad hominems after our first interaction I can pretty much assume you're just looking to be polemic and divisive on purpose. So either you're trolling and I'm wasting my time, or you're a masochist and want to enjoy One Piece and have Zoro become Ruronin in your avatar. If it's the latter then good luck on that and venting out your frustrations.

Damn you just admitted that i am right and trying to sound fancy by saying "you expect it to be written by a different manga".

 

[Horo Horo Musume]

Damn you just admitted that i am right and trying to sound fancy by saying "you expect it to be written by a different manga".

No, what I said is Zoro is not meant to be that type of character. That's not what everyone is looking for in his character. If you only enjoy Zoro for his powerlevel while being a swordsman then maybe you would have some legs to stand on. But if you're that type of person go read some seinen with a swordsman as a main character. That's the point I'm trying to get across, but it seems to be going over your head so you keep reducing your replies to nothing of value.

Here's a news flash not everyone is reading One Piece and expecting the same story as you. And that doesn't make it better or worse than other manga. It's all about your preferences but you can't to seem to understand that. Instead you're venting on here and hoping people agree with you and when you're called out on it your rebuttal basically boils down to " no, you" or "Oda sucks haha shitty swordsman".

 

[Pooth]

No, what I said is Zoro is not meant to be that type of character. That's not what everyone is looking for in his character. If you only enjoy Zoro for his powerlevel while being a swordsman then maybe you would have some legs to stand on. But if you're that type of person go read some seinen with a swordsman as a main character. That's the point I'm trying to get across, but it seems to be going over your head so you keep reducing your replies to nothing of value.

Here's a news flash not everyone is reading One Piece and expecting the same story as you. And that doesn't make it better or worse than other manga. It's all about your preferences but you can't to seem to understand that. Instead you're venting on here and hoping people agree with you and when you're called out on it your rebuttal basically boils down to " no, you" or "Oda sucks haha shitty swordsman".

Jesus Christ seems like you are willingly in denial about one piece worsening in quality.