General & Others The World’s Strongest titles are recent inventions

[nik87]

Whitebeard is stated to be able to end the world. You think shaking an island can end the world?

Blackbeard can do the same, despite not being stated because both posses the same ability and Blackbeard is supposed to take it to a higher level. Tremors cause tsunamis which are what ends the world by sinking islands.
If it wasn't for Aokiji the whole Marineford would have been sunk by them.

 

[Tai long]

Kaido's title is for being the absolute strongest living thing.

Whitebeard's title is probably tied to his devil fruit in some way if VC's and the Ace novel are to be believed.

Mihawk's title is predominantly skill related.

Regardless, Oda never intended for these titles to be transferable or obtainable in a fight or tournament or whatever, they simply exist solely for the character that they were created alongside, as an easy means of hype and conveying how strong Oda intends the character to be.

I would say Mohawks title is more tied to him being the only one with a black blade rather than his skill, no one in the series has hyped mihawk swordskill( I am not saying he is not the most skilled)

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Blackbeard can do the same, despite not being stated because both posses the same ability and Blackbeard is supposed to take it to a higher level. Tremors cause tsunamis which are what ends the world by sinking islands.
If it wasn't for Aokiji the whole Marineford would have been sunk by them.

You saw Blackbeard do something that Old sick Whitebeard do and you think that automatically think he can do something Prime Whitebeard can do

no one in the series has hyped mihawk swordskill

brannew: “He has superior sword skill to Emperor Shanks”

 

[Tai long]

You saw Blackbeard do something that Old sick Whitebeard do and you think that automatically think he can do something Prime Whitebeard can do

brannew: “He has superior sword skill to Emperor Shanks”

I guess, I was wrong, but I still think mihawk is the wss because of his black blade not any swordskill. unless oda all of a sudden decides to start focusing on swordskill instead of AP

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I guess, I was wrong, but I still think mihawk is the wss because of his black blade not any swordskill. unless oda all of a sudden decides to start focusing on swordskill instead of AP

I guess the problem is what you think “sword skill” means

Do remember that Brook calls his Music attacks his swordsmanship? As in when Brook pulls out his violin and uses his sword to strum the strings and create music that knocks out fodder, this is counted as swordsmanship both by brook and by the logic of the one piece verse.

Now take brook and extrapolate everything we’ve ever seen a swordsman do. Zoro and Kin’emon create fire spontaneously from their swords. Zoro can create a Soul Aura that can cut people. Lightning McGuy and Niji create lightning from their swords. Law and Fujitora channel their DFs in their swords. Hyouzo uses poison on his 8 sword style. Brook’s freezing blade attacks are his other style apart from his music style. Kaku uses his legs to create cutting air slashes in his sword style. Big mom, Dory and Broggy use air canons in their swordsmanship. Shanks and Zoro use AdvCoC in their sword slashes.

Everything I listed above is considered “Sword skill” in One piece. And everything above is INFERIOR to Mihawk’s sword skill.

Why though? Why is Brook’s music and freezing sword skills inferior to Mihawk’s sword skill? Well, because Mihawk would defeat Brook in 1v1 combat. Swordsmanship is a fighting style. The only way of proving the superiority of your sword skill is by winning a fight.

Mihawk is the Strongest Swordsman in the world because his Swordsmanship is superior to every Sword skill listed above and it’s superiority can only exist if Mihawk can defeat everyone above with his swords skills.

 

[Kiri]

I disagree.

28 years ago, Kaido is embodiment of might, he already reached his peak and is the strongest of all.
20 Years ago, when peak Oden died, Whitebeard had no equal/superior and became the strongest man.
Kaido was stronger than WB but due to being an Oni he was never a candidate for WSM and thus had superior title.

Both Kaido and Whtiebeard received one third of the story where they were portrayed as the ultimate.
The last part of the story remains and its ultimate is the last remaining WS title holder who dethroned both WSC and WSM sometimes in the last ~10 years but their titles remained for hype purposes despite being wrong in present/were presented as rumor instead.

I like that one databook that refers to Mihawk as the WSM after WB's death.

Because he practically is, and always was, WB's reputation outlived his own dwindling capability.

Some people actually believe Mihawk 600 chapters ago is admitting inferiority to WB, and is capped below old WB. It's honestly insanity.

Why would Oda explicitly portray the limit of Zoro's goal pre-ts, as if to say "upon zoro achieving his goal he will be weaker than old WB".

The theme of WB even being "strongest pirate" would be due to his accomplishments and status in piracy, that has nothing to do with him beating anyone in a 1v1, neither does his title. Oda was never this explicit in his portrayal of WB.

Which is why even if we said the quake fruit in WB's hands has more output then anything Mihawk can do for the sake of argument (hence the title), it still doesn't mean Mihawk couldn't just parry with the best utilisation of ryuou in the verse and riposte with the best swordsmanship in the world and kill WB either way.

Oda wouldn't have insinuated Mihawk and WB would fight bearing their weighty ideals, if WB's title meant he wins every 1v1 against any man, they should all just collectively agree and sit down and have beer or something, instead of fighting.

It's canonically different with Mihawk and Shanks, because Oda is literally stating one is better than the other in combat. So even if Mihawk's title ultimately came from renowned reputation in the world of One Piece, in the narrative he is being set in stone in that position, even if people in world debate upon it (because why wouldn't they?), we as the readers know it's a fact.

People are actually going to be surprised when Mihawk and Shanks are shown to be stronger than Primebeard. How is someone who has greater sword techniques than someone who can use joyboy league haki in their sword attacks weaker than primebeard.

Joyboy is obviously being portrayed as another level than WB and Kaido etc. A weaker second coming joyboy beat Kaido.

 

[nik87]

You saw Blackbeard do something that Old sick Whitebeard do and you think that automatically think he can do something Prime Whitebeard can do

But that is the point, WB is not supposed to show something superb with that fruit, Blackbeard is instead.
Whitebeard will never get a proper fight where he can show off everything so what we got in MF is all we will ever have.
Blackbeard and every other character reusing a DF that someone previously had will show more than they have.

I like that one databook that refers to Mihawk as the WSM after WB's death.

Because he practically is, and always was, WB's reputation outlived his own dwindling capability.

Some people actually believe Mihawk 600 chapters ago is admitting inferiority to WB, and is capped below old WB. It's honestly insanity.

Why would Oda explicitly portray the limit of Zoro's goal pre-ts, as if to say "upon zoro achieving his goal he will be weaker than old WB".

The theme of WB even being "strongest pirate" would be due to his accomplishments and status in piracy, that has nothing to do with him beating anyone in a 1v1, neither does his title. Oda was never this explicit in his portrayal of WB.

Which is why even if we said the quake fruit in WB's hands has more output then anything Mihawk can do for the sake of argument (hence the title), it still doesn't mean Mihawk couldn't just parry with the best utilisation of ryuou in the verse and riposte with the best swordsmanship in the world and kill WB either way.

Oda wouldn't have insinuated Mihawk and WB would fight bearing their weighty ideals, if WB's title meant he wins every 1v1 against any man, they should all just collectively agree and sit down and have beer or something, instead of fighting.

It's canonically different with Mihawk and Shanks, because Oda is literally stating one is better than the other in combat. So even if Mihawk's title ultimately came from renowned reputation in the world of One Piece, in the narrative he is being set in stone in that position, even if people in world debate upon it (because why wouldn't they?), we as the readers know it's a fact.

People are actually going to be surprised when Mihawk and Shanks are shown to be stronger than Primebeard. How is someone who has greater sword techniques than someone who can use joyboy league haki in their sword attacks weaker than primebeard.

Joyboy is obviously being portrayed as another level than WB and Kaido etc. A weaker second coming joyboy beat Kaido.

I agree, the people arent switching their brains on and at the same time it also fits their anti-Zoro/Mihawk agenda.
I don't like to use outside material like databook, only manga and direct Oda's word such as SBS and comments here and there.

The WSP is the same as Yonko, both refer to organizations. Yonkos have been called the strongest pirates in terms of biggest organizations/crews not in terms of individual strength because it is self-explanatory in the name "Emperor" itself, ruling an Empire.
The WSP is just a superior version of that, showing the #1 of among those 4 pirate organizations.
Even a weak Whitbeard from Marineford was still WSP because his organization was the strongest.

Yeah, I made a specific thread to debunk that nonsense of Mihawk admitting inferiority, as you said, it never happened.
I think WSM title was legit, 20 years ago, no other human was stronger. Mihawk was still not close to his peak while Kaido isn't qualified for that title but as you said, it overstayed its welcome and is just a remnant of the past, kept in order to preserve the hype until the end when it is shown that he no longer is the strongest.

Let's just say that Whitebeard and even Kaido never were Oda's ultimate chip to bet on, they are a result of story becoming popular and extended. He has carefully design both so that they do not stand above Mihawk because he was always supposed to be the strongest.
That is his one and only purpose.

Not sure if Oda's intention is to place Joyboy, any of the 3, above Kaido because they are background world-building characters(Luffy aside) instead of individual strength powerhouses like Kaido who had a 1/3rd of the story for himself. Kaido prophesied that Joyboy would be the one to beat him, not that Joyboy is the only one who can because Mihawk can beat him too. Kaido's prophecy was right but Oda didn't do him dirty, imo, he gave him quite a gauntlet and several conditions that put him at disadvantage due to stamina drains. There are many ways to show people more impressive than Kaido despite them not being stronger than Kaido, context is everything.