Chapter Discussion This chapter proved Shanks is not a "true" swordsman
- Thread starter Jack D. Jobber
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Did you not even read what Vergo even said? 
He's specifically referring to how having a powerful Haki allows him to fuck up Smoker's smoke turned body parts. And how it's a disadvantage to make yourself into large smoke cloud against someone with strong haki.
What'd you want him to say, "I am a stronger stick user! My stick skills and powers allow me to hit your intangible logia form, you should be careful!"
Wtf is even a stick user anyway? Can you post a single scan in history of One Piece that classifies a fighting style as "stick user?"
Or dubs either Vergo or Smoker as "stick users"?
Are we coming up with our own fighting style groups now?
Who said he has stronger haki? Just that he wins in a fight, because Shanks is canonically a swordsman and Zoro's dream of WSS is to be stronger than any swordsman and be able to beat them in 1 vs 1. That's what the title is for.
There's a reason why Vivre Cards say that Mihawk is waiting for someone who surpasses even Shanks (in general, no specific category). Because that's what becoming WSS is about. Being stronger than all swordsmen and being able to 1 vs 1 them, including Mihawk and Shanks.
That's what Zoro will be EoS.
He's specifically referring to how having a powerful Haki allows him to fuck up Smoker's smoke turned body parts. And how it's a disadvantage to make yourself into large smoke cloud against someone with strong haki.
What'd you want him to say, "I am a stronger stick user! My stick skills and powers allow me to hit your intangible logia form, you should be careful!"
Wtf is even a stick user anyway? Can you post a single scan in history of One Piece that classifies a fighting style as "stick user?"
Or dubs either Vergo or Smoker as "stick users"?
Are we coming up with our own fighting style groups now?
Who said he has stronger haki? Just that he wins in a fight, because Shanks is canonically a swordsman and Zoro's dream of WSS is to be stronger than any swordsman and be able to beat them in 1 vs 1. That's what the title is for.
There's a reason why Vivre Cards say that Mihawk is waiting for someone who surpasses even Shanks (in general, no specific category). Because that's what becoming WSS is about. Being stronger than all swordsmen and being able to 1 vs 1 them, including Mihawk and Shanks.
That's what Zoro will be EoS.
Tf we are down to this now?
"Shanks defenders" think that the title is tied to swordsmanship technique and that Mihawk is just above Shanks in terms of "using the blade" but Shanks can still take down Mihawk because of his stronger haki.
I get you Shanks defenders, I've also been doing that in the past.
However, like I did, you have to understand that this is fallacious.
The epithet is not "world's strongest swordsman" as in "the person who can use the blade the finest way".
The epithet means "the strongest among all swordsmen" and Oda used the same kanji than he did with other epithets.
So, the swording technique per se is completely irrelevant.
If someone uses his sword like Luffy and always uses a sword to fight and portrayed as such, he is a swordsman. If that clumsy swordsman defeats all other swordsmen because he has a stronger haki than the others, he is by definition WSS.
Though that would never happen, that's how it is. It's what the epithet means.
I love Shanks and I prefer him over Mihawk, don't get me wrong there. This is just logical me speaking and trying to put my love of Shanks on the side to understand the situation. I think I can finally do it now and put my ego on the side since Shanks was finally portrayed as I wished and I don't mind accepting the reality that Mihawk > Shanks. I'm still not entirely convinced at 100% since a small part of me still says no. Call it ego, call it whatever you want.
Did you not even read what Vergo even said?
He's specifically referring to how having a powerful Haki allows him to fuck up Smoker's smoke turned body parts. And how it's a disadvantage to make yourself into large smoke cloud against someone with strong haki.
What'd you want him to say, "I am a stronger stick user! My stick skills and powers allow me to hit your intangible logia form, you should be careful!"
Wtf is even a stick user anyway? Can you post a single scan in history of One Piece that classifies a fighting style as "stick user?"
Or dubs either Vergo or Smoker as "stick users"?
Are we coming up with our own fighting style groups now?
Who said he has stronger haki? Just that he wins in a fight, because Shanks is canonically a swordsman and Zoro's dream of WSS is to be stronger than any swordsman and be able to beat them in 1 vs 1. That's what the title is for.
There's a reason why Vivre Cards say that Mihawk is waiting for someone who surpasses even Shanks (in general, no specific category). Because that's what becoming WSS is about. Being stronger than all swordsmen and being able to 1 vs 1 them, including Mihawk and Shanks.
That's what Zoro will be EoS.
He's specifically referring to how having a powerful Haki allows him to fuck up Smoker's smoke turned body parts. And how it's a disadvantage to make yourself into large smoke cloud against someone with strong haki.
What'd you want him to say, "I am a stronger stick user! My stick skills and powers allow me to hit your intangible logia form, you should be careful!"
Wtf is even a stick user anyway? Can you post a single scan in history of One Piece that classifies a fighting style as "stick user?"
Or dubs either Vergo or Smoker as "stick users"?
Are we coming up with our own fighting style groups now?
Who said he has stronger haki? Just that he wins in a fight, because Shanks is canonically a swordsman and Zoro's dream of WSS is to be stronger than any swordsman and be able to beat them in 1 vs 1. That's what the title is for.
There's a reason why Vivre Cards say that Mihawk is waiting for someone who surpasses even Shanks (in general, no specific category). Because that's what becoming WSS is about. Being stronger than all swordsmen and being able to 1 vs 1 them, including Mihawk and Shanks.
That's what Zoro will be EoS.
No. Weapon is a weapon. Haki is Haki. Both are fundamentally different things.
Like how sword is a sword and strength is strength. Strength boosts a swordsman's power, same way Haki does.
Haki is a fundamental tool that boosts your weapon and fighting style. It is the most important and most critical of all things.
It's like how a swordsman may say, "You can't beat me, I am much faster!" to another.
It shows how speed allows one swordsman to far outclass another and defeat them in battle. It does not mean they're a speedman. They're still fucking swordsmen.
Like how sword is a sword and strength is strength. Strength boosts a swordsman's power, same way Haki does.
Haki is a fundamental tool that boosts your weapon and fighting style. It is the most important and most critical of all things.
It's like how a swordsman may say, "You can't beat me, I am much faster!" to another.
It shows how speed allows one swordsman to far outclass another and defeat them in battle. It does not mean they're a speedman. They're still fucking swordsmen.
There's no such thing as stick users as fighting style in One Piece world. Swordsmen is a canonical group.
Btw, I don't consider all sword users as swordsmen either. I only call Shanks a swordsman because Oda calls him that. BM uses a sword but I won't call her a swordsman until Oda does.
Swordsmen are a group of characters. Those whom Oda includes in it are part of it.
No. That's not me. That's what Zoro interprets it as. It's his dream, and it's to beat other swordsmen in 1 vs 1 and emerge victorious; someone who won't lose to them.
I don't give a flying fuck about it other than what author and Zoro think of it as. Author says one to beat Mihawk and become WSS will have surpassed Shanks. In general, not in any category. Zoro calls it as being able to win 1 vs 1 against any other swordsman.
I'm merely quoting Oda and Zoro.
Btw, I don't consider all sword users as swordsmen either. I only call Shanks a swordsman because Oda calls him that. BM uses a sword but I won't call her a swordsman until Oda does.
Swordsmen are a group of characters. Those whom Oda includes in it are part of it.
No. That's not me. That's what Zoro interprets it as. It's his dream, and it's to beat other swordsmen in 1 vs 1 and emerge victorious; someone who won't lose to them.
I don't give a flying fuck about it other than what author and Zoro think of it as. Author says one to beat Mihawk and become WSS will have surpassed Shanks. In general, not in any category. Zoro calls it as being able to win 1 vs 1 against any other swordsman.
I'm merely quoting Oda and Zoro.
Please stop 🛑 we are already Made fun of enough on twitter.
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Funny because nothing in Zoro's dream mention about haki, and nothing in Kaidou's statement mention Roger as WSS, you just want it so much.
This is a great way to explain it. If I may add, it's the same thing that we do with devil fruit users.
Luffy is a devil fruit user
Law is a devil fruit user
Kid is a devil fruit user
Luffy's fruit has been weak until awakening
Law's fruit has always been stronger than Luffy's before gear 5
Kid's fruit has always been stronger than Luffy's before gear 5
Luffy uses all forms of haki and has strong haki
Law barely uses haki
Kid barely uses haki
If we ignore for a second that Luffy has the sun god Nika and still has a "rubber fruit".
If we had to give the epithet "world's strongest devil fruit user", who would get it?
Shanks defenders would say that Law is the "world's strongest devil fruit user" because he has the strongest devil fruit.
However, in reality, "world's strongest devil fruit user" epithet, if it uses the same kanji than WSS, means "the strongest among all devil fruit users".
So, it's Luffy who would have the epithet among the three because he has the strongest haki and so, it puts him at the top of the devil fruit users. It doesn't matter what he uses to defeat them, he is a devil fruit user and so, he is in that competition.
Now, apply this same exact logic to WSS and Mihawk/Shanks. The epithet means "the strongest among all swordsmen".
Following this logic, you can understand there is:
- the strongest among all devil fruit users
- the strongest among all swordsmen
- the strongest among all punch users
You could argue that the epithet "the strongest man" or "strongest creature" is for the person who is really at the top and is the strongest among ALL PEOPLE.
The WSS could be the strongest man if he defeats other people than swordsmen.
@uyuu
Luffy is a devil fruit user
Law is a devil fruit user
Kid is a devil fruit user
Luffy's fruit has been weak until awakening
Law's fruit has always been stronger than Luffy's before gear 5
Kid's fruit has always been stronger than Luffy's before gear 5
Luffy uses all forms of haki and has strong haki
Law barely uses haki
Kid barely uses haki
If we ignore for a second that Luffy has the sun god Nika and still has a "rubber fruit".
If we had to give the epithet "world's strongest devil fruit user", who would get it?
Shanks defenders would say that Law is the "world's strongest devil fruit user" because he has the strongest devil fruit.
However, in reality, "world's strongest devil fruit user" epithet, if it uses the same kanji than WSS, means "the strongest among all devil fruit users".
So, it's Luffy who would have the epithet among the three because he has the strongest haki and so, it puts him at the top of the devil fruit users. It doesn't matter what he uses to defeat them, he is a devil fruit user and so, he is in that competition.
Now, apply this same exact logic to WSS and Mihawk/Shanks. The epithet means "the strongest among all swordsmen".
Following this logic, you can understand there is:
- the strongest among all devil fruit users
- the strongest among all swordsmen
- the strongest among all punch users
You could argue that the epithet "the strongest man" or "strongest creature" is for the person who is really at the top and is the strongest among ALL PEOPLE.
The WSS could be the strongest man if he defeats other people than swordsmen.
@uyuu
What do either of those things have anything to do with what I said?
Nothing in Zoro's dream mentions about speed either. So can he be WSS while being as fast as Alvida? I have no idea why you're circling around this.
Point remains that becoming WSS is about being able to beat other swordsmen in 1 vs 1 combat. That's what Zoro's dream is. That's what Oda presents it as. That's why Vivre Card states EoS Zoro will be > Shanks in general.
If Zoro wins against other swordsmen due to his superior haki, then he still is WSS. Haki is a tool, same as speed and strength. The most important tool that encompasses everything.
Nothing in Zoro's dream mentions about speed either. So can he be WSS while being as fast as Alvida? I have no idea why you're circling around this.
Point remains that becoming WSS is about being able to beat other swordsmen in 1 vs 1 combat. That's what Zoro's dream is. That's what Oda presents it as. That's why Vivre Card states EoS Zoro will be > Shanks in general.
If Zoro wins against other swordsmen due to his superior haki, then he still is WSS. Haki is a tool, same as speed and strength. The most important tool that encompasses everything.
This a billion times over. @uyuu
No idea how this simple logic goes over your head, man.
Being strongest among all swordsmen is simply about being able to beat the shit out of anyone else who falls under category of swordsmen (again, swordsmen does NOT mean every single person who uses sword). That's what Zoro calls it. That's the narrative Oda has.
No idea how this simple logic goes over your head, man.
Being strongest among all swordsmen is simply about being able to beat the shit out of anyone else who falls under category of swordsmen (again, swordsmen does NOT mean every single person who uses sword). That's what Zoro calls it. That's the narrative Oda has.
Lmao I forgot where Luffy Said he will be the biggest haki master to become Pirate king. And also the moment sanji said he needed Haki to reach all blue.
I wonder why Kuina said she will fall behind as an adult due to her physical strength being inferior to men. And why is Zoro training with weights? Zoro world's strongest strongman confirmed?
As for Haki, it was already said that through Haki flow, the swordsman becomes one with the blade and cuts and cuts not what he desires. And Mihawk (Hawk Eyes man) noted the importance of hardening, as every scratch on a swordsman's blade is a shame.
Obviously Haki reigns supreme, but it just complements the fighting style you have. How is it so hard to understand. Even when Zoro scarred Kaido, Kaido immediately pointed out Zoro's outburst of conqueror's Haki rather than complimenting his swordsmanship.
As for Haki, it was already said that through Haki flow, the swordsman becomes one with the blade and cuts and cuts not what he desires. And Mihawk (Hawk Eyes man) noted the importance of hardening, as every scratch on a swordsman's blade is a shame.
Obviously Haki reigns supreme, but it just complements the fighting style you have. How is it so hard to understand. Even when Zoro scarred Kaido, Kaido immediately pointed out Zoro's outburst of conqueror's Haki rather than complimenting his swordsmanship.
