Versus Battle Tobi vs Pein
- Thread starter Bob74h
- Start date
Aight I can add the pictures now
Obito's speed >> Pain. Obito is able to teleport, grab sasuke and teleport out of the area before Onoki can even finish particle style. He's also faster than the Raikage.
Same Raikage who's canonically faster than Naruto at this point in the story. Who blitzed almost every Pain path.
Obito's intelligence >>
Obito can come up with a plan on the fly, as seen as how he analyzed the abilities of Danzo's men and quickly came up with a plan to beat them both simultaneously. Pain got defeated by a simple plan by Naruto.
Path's glaring weakness is the fact that he needs to be within range in order to send chakra to his paths.
Meaning once they're kamui'd they're corpses. Obito with his speed can easily pick off a path 1 by 1.
And this is not including his genjutsu, which is considered to be as good as Shisui's. His woodstyle and worse, Izanagi which is basically a free death for him.
Pain has no feats that can put him above Orange Mask Tobi. Even Zetsu's praise is empty because he knows what Obito's true plan was, so he knew Obito plan to either kill Nagato or force him to sacrifice for his sake. Do you honestly believe Zetsu though Obito would lose?
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We should not forget that Obito is not limited to Kamui.
Obito is able to utilize a considerable level of Mokuton, using deadly offensive moves:
That Mokuton was in fact Obito's own ability and not used through Zetsu, as noted by Zetsu himself:
Obito can also launch all kinds of weapons with his reverse Kamui, be it small or massive Shuriken, Chakra suppressing rods, etc.:
The big Shuriken cleanly cut through Hachibi's tentacles.
Obito is also able to use large scale Katon, on par with Madara:
Once he got rid of Gakido and his Ninjutsu absorbing ability, the other paths will have a harder time dealing with this Katon. It will get especially tricky when Obito combines several techniques.
And to round it up, he has a second Sharingan hidden under his mask to perform Izanagi and escape certain death for like 10 minutes.
So pretty notable offensive power aside from Kamui, accompanied by an extremely hard to overcome defense and the ability to respawn for like 10 minutes using Izanagi, as his usage of Izanagi was superior to Danzo's and allowed him to outlast Konan's barrage of bombs.
Obito is able to utilize a considerable level of Mokuton, using deadly offensive moves:
That Mokuton was in fact Obito's own ability and not used through Zetsu, as noted by Zetsu himself:
Obito can also launch all kinds of weapons with his reverse Kamui, be it small or massive Shuriken, Chakra suppressing rods, etc.:
The big Shuriken cleanly cut through Hachibi's tentacles.
Obito is also able to use large scale Katon, on par with Madara:
Once he got rid of Gakido and his Ninjutsu absorbing ability, the other paths will have a harder time dealing with this Katon. It will get especially tricky when Obito combines several techniques.
And to round it up, he has a second Sharingan hidden under his mask to perform Izanagi and escape certain death for like 10 minutes.
So pretty notable offensive power aside from Kamui, accompanied by an extremely hard to overcome defense and the ability to respawn for like 10 minutes using Izanagi, as his usage of Izanagi was superior to Danzo's and allowed him to outlast Konan's barrage of bombs.
We should not forget that Obito is not limited to Kamui.
Obito is able to utilize a considerable level of Mokuton, using deadly offensive moves:
That Mokuton was in fact Obito's own ability and not used through Zetsu, as noted by Zetsu himself:
Obito can also launch all kinds of weapons with his reverse Kamui, be it small or massive Shuriken, Chakra suppressing rods, etc.:
The big Shuriken cleanly cut through Hachibi's tentacles.
Obito is also able to use large scale Katon, on par with Madara:
Once he got rid of Gakido and his Ninjutsu absorbing ability, the other paths will have a harder time dealing with this Katon. It will get especially tricky when Obito combines several techniques.
And to round it up, he has a second Sharingan hidden under his mask to perform Izanagi and escape certain death for like 10 minutes.
So pretty notable offensive power aside from Kamui, accompanied by an extremely hard to overcome defense and the ability to respawn for like 10 minutes using Izanagi, as his usage of Izanagi was superior to Danzo's and allowed him to outlast Konan's barrage of bombs.
Obito is able to utilize a considerable level of Mokuton, using deadly offensive moves:
That Mokuton was in fact Obito's own ability and not used through Zetsu, as noted by Zetsu himself:
Obito can also launch all kinds of weapons with his reverse Kamui, be it small or massive Shuriken, Chakra suppressing rods, etc.:
The big Shuriken cleanly cut through Hachibi's tentacles.
Obito is also able to use large scale Katon, on par with Madara:
Once he got rid of Gakido and his Ninjutsu absorbing ability, the other paths will have a harder time dealing with this Katon. It will get especially tricky when Obito combines several techniques.
And to round it up, he has a second Sharingan hidden under his mask to perform Izanagi and escape certain death for like 10 minutes.
So pretty notable offensive power aside from Kamui, accompanied by an extremely hard to overcome defense and the ability to respawn for like 10 minutes using Izanagi, as his usage of Izanagi was superior to Danzo's and allowed him to outlast Konan's barrage of bombs.
Actually.. I'd like to clear up some misconceptions, tbh.
(Preface: — Please click the arrow links, they'll redirect you, to the pertinent scans, or video clips.. ).
I'd like to add that both of you are, partially correct on that matter, ie., The VIZ Translation Issue.. I guess, The ViZ made a mistake, while translating that statement, because, I've checked the anime's interpretation (You can watch the clip here, the statement starts from 0.09 - 0:18 ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.. ) of that statement, and it turns out that the unofficial translators — translated it right — this time, around.
To Elucidate, White Zetsu utilizes the word "TABUN.. " ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.. , which in the Japanese Language, means "Probably.. ", and then succeeding that, he utilizes the word "IMA.. " ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.. , which means "right now.. ".. so.. it could be reconciled that White Zetsu was extrapolating on a Sasuke, who never possessed any of his more lethal MS tools — at that point in time — as he never knew that Sasuke awakened his Mangekyō Sharingan, and manifested an Amaterasu on the Eight Tails', as Black Zetsu doesn't easily give away confidential information to his acolytes'. However, we — as the audience — are privy to the fact that WZ is aware of the Nine Tails' Demon Fox Spirit's Chakras, taking over an Enraged Blinded By Hate (in response to Hinata being drilled with black rods.. ) Naruto, since if he didn't, then he would be misleading the viewers with falsified information, which would go against the ethicality of this serialization.. I highly doubt the author would feed half-baked falsities to his consumers.. This supposition is supplemented by the fact that Naruto believed that he required The Nine Tails' Demon Fox Spirit's Chakras, to battle a nearly blind exhausted Sasuke, like exemplified by him nearly killing the likes of Kakashi, and Sakura, prior to him arriving on the scene.
Supplementally.. the latter never knew that the former acclimatized to The Amaterasu, in his skill-set, as he was visibly taken aback by the fact that an EMS Sasuke assimilated them in his skill-set, in battle, when, they later, re-unite.
(Preface: — Please click the arrow links, they'll redirect you, to the pertinent scans, or video clips.. ).
- Although, I'm in agreement, that Pain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS Obito, I'd like to elucidate that, it was the latter who claimed that the former was "invincible". Also, I'd like to substantiate that, the reason why Pain was reputed as "invincible.. ".. ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ, was because of his secret, which entails that he'll keep ressurecting himself everytime someone "kills" him (any one of his paths.. ), and attack an unguarded, ill-anticipatory, enemy from the shadows. The Third Databook exemplifies this, in the top right caption, and picture.
- Minato hyped up Obito, who possessed the entire Red Moon Tribe Organization ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ, under his control. Also, it's intuitively understood that Obito cannot trounce significantly stronger entities, up the upper echelon, as if he did, he wouldn't have erected the Red Moon Tribe Organization, to produce a "weapon of mass destruction", like he did, and, also, to acclimatize his "Eye Of The Moon Plan".
- Additionally, Obito implicited that Sasuke possessed the potentiality to surpass a Prime Living Nagato, stratospherically, exceeding the likes of Pain.. ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.
- Therein, I'd like to say that Obito wasn't implicitly stronger than them (the members up the upper echelon of the Red Moon Tribe Organization, ie., the likes of Itachi, Pain Konan w/ 600 Billion Exploding Paper Tags prepped.. ), and the author sufficiently illustrated this when he couldn't trounce an apparently "weaker.. " member of the pertinent organization, without extremely high difficulty, and trickery (ie., him supplanting a Six Paths' Black Mazō Rod after activating Izanagi, which she didn't know about.. ).
- Supplementally.. I'd like to add that a 14Y Old Obito, already, most likely maxxed out on his battle potentiality, given the fact that he possessed the Mangekyō Sharingan, and it's associated abilities, and he could exemplify his ocular prowess phenomenally, in the battlefield, like exemplified in his fight with Minato.
- Normally, when characters make a substantial improvement, or acquisition of a new skill or power, it's generally notified to the viewers — either by a statement, implication, or a feature. It's reminiscent to saying that Itachi significantly improved during the 2Y Time-Skip, by the sheer virtue of the passage of time.. I don't really see that supposition, as clinically testable, or cannonically substantiative, tbh.
- Pain wasn't literally defeated by a "quadrant of clones.. ".. tbh. There's a concept known as accumulated damage (ie., The damage acquired repeatedly, during the course of the battle, which passively sticks on to the victim, and effects thier physical capabilities (Durability, Speed, Stamina, Energy and the likes.. ) throughout the rest of the battle.. ). Key Evidence substantiating this claim is that, The God Realm, could physically exchange in equality with Natural Energy Naruto, without significant duress, and as a '+' point, he was overwhelming, or pushing him back, the entire time.
- Indeed.. Obito definitely sacrificed his arm, thinking that he had Extra WZ's Tissue Supplements, in his laboratory, but I think that, an argument, could be made that he underestimated them, and that, they were somewhere, in the circumference of his ballpark, seeing as, he couldn't physically overwhelm them (by that, I mean, he couldn't pressure them, or blitz them casually.. ). Note.. the fact that Danzō's acolytes' aren't ordinary warriors — they are some of the strongest to exist, in the Leaf.. otherwise, they wouldn't have been appointed as his personal bodyguards.
- Minato stated that Obito possessed a "certain set of unique traits, and skills.. " ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ, that, in order to trounce him, in battle, one required a "kryptonite.. " or some sort of ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ, "extraordinary power.. ".. however.. if one skims that part meticulously, it's implicitly clear, that Minato believed that mastering the Nine Tails' Demon Spirit Fox's Chakras ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ, would elevate his off-spring, to a placement up the power structure hierarchy, that facilitates him trouncing the likes of Obito.. The panels are intrinsically linked, they narrate a jigsaw puzzle like narrative, where, although, the parts are scattered all over the place — when they come to together, or when they are emplaced together — they tell a crystal clear tale ie., The Perfect Mastery of The Nine Tails' Demon Spirit Fox's Chakras ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ, would inevitably culminate in Obito's defeat. Right after that, Minato speculates that the latter is utilizing the hatred in Pain's hearts as vessels, to fill his drippy ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟplans — ie., in essence, he is supplanting his desires by puppeting them, with the strings of hatred, and vengeance.
- Indeed.. this implicits that he cannot trounce Pain, on his own.. he has to fall back on relatively under-handed tricks to pave a path to his ambitions.
- Additionally, I'd like to know how the ETs' were amplified.. ? Are you referencing the fact that DSM Kabuto exclaiming that he infused Orochimaru's Chakras into his physique, to amplify the binding power of the ET Technique.. ? If so, I'd like to add that the latter doesn't inherently amplify, or enhance the ETs' in question, implicitly. It exfoliates the grasp, the castor has on the victim's personality, and actions, however, it wasn't implicited that it exfoliates battle power, in any manner, factually.
I'd like to add that both of you are, partially correct on that matter, ie., The VIZ Translation Issue.. I guess, The ViZ made a mistake, while translating that statement, because, I've checked the anime's interpretation (You can watch the clip here, the statement starts from 0.09 - 0:18 ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.. ) of that statement, and it turns out that the unofficial translators — translated it right — this time, around.
To Elucidate, White Zetsu utilizes the word "TABUN.. " ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.. , which in the Japanese Language, means "Probably.. ", and then succeeding that, he utilizes the word "IMA.. " ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ--------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ☆ﾟ.*･｡ﾟ.. , which means "right now.. ".. so.. it could be reconciled that White Zetsu was extrapolating on a Sasuke, who never possessed any of his more lethal MS tools — at that point in time — as he never knew that Sasuke awakened his Mangekyō Sharingan, and manifested an Amaterasu on the Eight Tails', as Black Zetsu doesn't easily give away confidential information to his acolytes'. However, we — as the audience — are privy to the fact that WZ is aware of the Nine Tails' Demon Fox Spirit's Chakras, taking over an Enraged Blinded By Hate (in response to Hinata being drilled with black rods.. ) Naruto, since if he didn't, then he would be misleading the viewers with falsified information, which would go against the ethicality of this serialization.. I highly doubt the author would feed half-baked falsities to his consumers.. This supposition is supplemented by the fact that Naruto believed that he required The Nine Tails' Demon Fox Spirit's Chakras, to battle a nearly blind exhausted Sasuke, like exemplified by him nearly killing the likes of Kakashi, and Sakura, prior to him arriving on the scene.
Supplementally.. the latter never knew that the former acclimatized to The Amaterasu, in his skill-set, as he was visibly taken aback by the fact that an EMS Sasuke assimilated them in his skill-set, in battle, when, they later, re-unite.
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This is is major headcanon territory here. For some weird reason that has never been explained, Obito specifically waited until the TS to make a move on all the Bijuu. He had control of one for years ffs.
This post was another one full of headcanon but I like how you call Obito's technique trickery but you're literally fine with overhyping Konan who planned how to kill Obito for over a decade and led him to a trap.
Obito did not use Izanagi vs Minato. There's your proof that he learned a new technique. He had Madara's eye at his disposal if you want to go the "he didn't have a spare eye" route.
Obito literally never took Naruto seriously, even months after he beat Pain
I appreciate your post but you went strictly the narrative route when it still clearly favors Obito. You knew feats alone Pain is severely lacking