Role Madness Too Many Doctors (Game Thread)
- Thread starter Guillo
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- Tags alexis is definitely ai lol just ice for mango luka too cute to be scum
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Sure? Let's go with it. So Day 1 we lynch ???, Night 1 we kill me, and then after my town flip you get lynched Day 2. If you co firm you understand and accept all that then let's go lol.
Nonsense? Yup, all it requires is the one pushing a player, to be confident in their scum reads. Which is why you don't nominate a King indiscriminately. Any plan ever risks lynching a townie, that's not avoidable, but this way, you encourage people to buy into the plan because there is less fear of a powerwolf leading them astray. I never said it replaces Flower's plan, it merely provides a solution to decide the target. The whole watcher thing is still present. And this way, if not everyone follows, you still have info. And obviously, if the watcher outs scum, then you lynch that first and then come back to Kingmaker.
Nonsense? Yup, all it requires is the one pushing a player, to be confident in their scum reads. Which is why you don't nominate a King indiscriminately. Any plan ever risks lynching a townie, that's not avoidable, but this way, you encourage people to buy into the plan because there is less fear of a powerwolf leading them astray. I never said it replaces Flower's plan, it merely provides a solution to decide the target. The whole watcher thing is still present. And this way, if not everyone follows, you still have info. And obviously, if the watcher outs scum, then you lynch that first and then come back to Kingmaker.
I'm reading, can't guarantee that I'm comprehending everything I'm reading though.
I have brainlag this night.
Anyway, it makes logical sense what she's saying; the core issue of having people actually comply doesn't inherently get solved by having a "kingmaker", sure it may ensure a group of people to go along with the named target, but not eliminating the issue as a whole.
Also, to be clear, I said that it was a legit argument to be made also because up until now she's only been howling at me without actually trying to make any arguments or defense that doesn't involve her conceited plan
I tried to give her something to bite on, but instead she goes back to her factory default howling
I have brainlag this night.
Anyway, it makes logical sense what she's saying; the core issue of having people actually comply doesn't inherently get solved by having a "kingmaker", sure it may ensure a group of people to go along with the named target, but not eliminating the issue as a whole.
Also, to be clear, I said that it was a legit argument to be made also because up until now she's only been howling at me without actually trying to make any arguments or defense that doesn't involve her conceited plan
I tried to give her something to bite on, but instead she goes back to her factory default howling
Oh no Flower, you really don't get it done you.
Player A is King. Player A decides who gets killed. If Player A is wrong, then Player A gets lynched. That's a fair compromise - if people push the wrong directions, they tend to get lynched. Let's take you. You're so certain I'm scum. So, if you're King, you're confident I'm scum right? So, you call for my death. And of you're wrong, well you deserve the lynch. You say you want to deny me thread control - this is quite literally me giving up any and all thread control. Because I only get one shot, and then the following day, if I'm wrong I am lynched. And if I bus, then I have no explanation for survival. And there's nothing to stop you making me King again Day 2. As scum, I would have to keep bussing. Or I die. Again, giving up thread control. That's the point of my plan.
This is why I'm asking if you need some help with reading. Because what you're arguing is like, the opposite of what my solution gives you. If you're worried about bussing, just keep that Player as King. Easy! And if they're wrong, they have a whole day after the night to find a solve before they get lynched. Most good players should be able to do pretty well with that. I await your next post.
The site is not working very well for me so I may need to come back to it tomorrow, in the meantime I would suggest grabbing the posts I explain it all and give them a reread. If you still need me to explain some parts that sound dumb to you I will.
BTW, this plan was ripped straight from Achromatic from a few years ago, does that help convince you it's better?
Player A is King. Player A decides who gets killed. If Player A is wrong, then Player A gets lynched. That's a fair compromise - if people push the wrong directions, they tend to get lynched. Let's take you. You're so certain I'm scum. So, if you're King, you're confident I'm scum right? So, you call for my death. And of you're wrong, well you deserve the lynch. You say you want to deny me thread control - this is quite literally me giving up any and all thread control. Because I only get one shot, and then the following day, if I'm wrong I am lynched. And if I bus, then I have no explanation for survival. And there's nothing to stop you making me King again Day 2. As scum, I would have to keep bussing. Or I die. Again, giving up thread control. That's the point of my plan.
This is why I'm asking if you need some help with reading. Because what you're arguing is like, the opposite of what my solution gives you. If you're worried about bussing, just keep that Player as King. Easy! And if they're wrong, they have a whole day after the night to find a solve before they get lynched. Most good players should be able to do pretty well with that. I await your next post.
The site is not working very well for me so I may need to come back to it tomorrow, in the meantime I would suggest grabbing the posts I explain it all and give them a reread. If you still need me to explain some parts that sound dumb to you I will.
BTW, this plan was ripped straight from Achromatic from a few years ago, does that help convince you it's better?
And again, that’s wrong.
Player A is scum and busses Player B.
Player A has bus cred and can tell people who to pick next.
Then after 2-3 days Player C eventually busses Player A.
Takes control for a few more days.
Kingmaker like this is just a way to give the scum team agency in a plan that’s essentially just mine with a gimmick. And as previous game has shown you are good at setting up busses. Since you already agree that people piling on on one target is feasible we should just have a second vote separate from the lynch to determine the target for the night democratically without Kingmaker stuff which is literally not needed.
Again, denied.
Now I really need to go to bed and take my eye drops.
Player A is scum and busses Player B.
Player A has bus cred and can tell people who to pick next.
Then after 2-3 days Player C eventually busses Player A.
Takes control for a few more days.
Kingmaker like this is just a way to give the scum team agency in a plan that’s essentially just mine with a gimmick. And as previous game has shown you are good at setting up busses. Since you already agree that people piling on on one target is feasible we should just have a second vote separate from the lynch to determine the target for the night democratically without Kingmaker stuff which is literally not needed.
Again, denied.
Now I really need to go to bed and take my eye drops.
1 - it doesn't force everyone to comply. I can't do that Mango. I can't hold a gun to your head and tell you that you have to do this. But it *incentives* it. Let me explain why.
So using Flower's suggestion, there was nothing in there about deciding who we target. So I said, why don't we do this. Ekko said, it doesn't matter, it's just PoE, but the problem is getting people to agree on who is PoE is not easy and nigh on impossible this early. And with that, you run the risk of people disagreeing with the Poe and thus having no reason to follow the plan. If they tell me you should die and I think you're town, then I'm not going to agree with it. So I might not follow the plan. But if you tell me that the person who is pushing you gets killed if you're town, then I might agree, because that way if I'm right on you, then I might begin to suspect them. So it gives me info on them. The key point is this - I have incentive to follow the plan.
And if I don't, then I don't. In Flower's plan, her solution is to cry about it because her plan is perfect, how can people not follow. But if they don't, then as long as the person the King suggested to die still dies, there is info gleaned. But if people do follow, then the watcher info can come into play which is what Flower envisioned.
Does that make sense? I can't eliminate the issue as a whole and I never sold it as such. I mean if you were to give me a gun, all of your addresses and a blank cheque I could give it a go. But short of that, then we have to make to make do with good enough. All the benefits to Flower's plan is still there. Which is why her position is so silly lol. And also notable that Ekko immediately disagrees with it. Because the benefits are still there. It's the same plan plus with incentive to follow it. And Flower said she wants less thread control for me, here I am, giving up all the thread control.
So yeah that's the skinny really. I think it's a good idea.
So using Flower's suggestion, there was nothing in there about deciding who we target. So I said, why don't we do this. Ekko said, it doesn't matter, it's just PoE, but the problem is getting people to agree on who is PoE is not easy and nigh on impossible this early. And with that, you run the risk of people disagreeing with the Poe and thus having no reason to follow the plan. If they tell me you should die and I think you're town, then I'm not going to agree with it. So I might not follow the plan. But if you tell me that the person who is pushing you gets killed if you're town, then I might agree, because that way if I'm right on you, then I might begin to suspect them. So it gives me info on them. The key point is this - I have incentive to follow the plan.
And if I don't, then I don't. In Flower's plan, her solution is to cry about it because her plan is perfect, how can people not follow. But if they don't, then as long as the person the King suggested to die still dies, there is info gleaned. But if people do follow, then the watcher info can come into play which is what Flower envisioned.
Does that make sense? I can't eliminate the issue as a whole and I never sold it as such. I mean if you were to give me a gun, all of your addresses and a blank cheque I could give it a go. But short of that, then we have to make to make do with good enough. All the benefits to Flower's plan is still there. Which is why her position is so silly lol. And also notable that Ekko immediately disagrees with it. Because the benefits are still there. It's the same plan plus with incentive to follow it. And Flower said she wants less thread control for me, here I am, giving up all the thread control.
So yeah that's the skinny really. I think it's a good idea.
Player A busses B. Scum go down to 4 at the start of Day 2. Player A gets picked again because Flower is worried about bussing. Player A either buses again, or picks town. Day 3, Player A gets killed. Player C never gets a real opportunity to bus Player A, but even if they do, they can be made King and thus forced to bus again. It's forcing 1:1 trades while also following YOUR plan. If you're arguing 1:1 trades from scum are bad from town then I think you're out of your depth here because they're never bad. Bussing is really not a solution here. If you want, you can just keep the same King until they get it wrong.
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