Versus Battle Uchiha Itachi vs Uchiha Obito

[Light D Lamperouge]

Susano’o has never been materialized to its fullest that fast. Itachi credited susano’o itself for his survival so it’s very likely he used a V2 / Skeleton version to survive.

Itachi Susanoo is not sentient though. Itachi has to activate it by activating his Sharingan. An Itachi at death's door vs a healthy Itachi with much better reactions is able to pull it off quicker, no?

It’s not precisely slow—Tobi is just too fast. His best offensive feats with Totsuka is killing a giant dragon while Orochimaru monologues and Nagato who was being manually puppeted and still.

Orochimaru was looking at Itachi while talking and still couldn't react to it. Let's not pretend he was delivering a theatre play.

Spoiler

Nagato who was being manually puppeted and still.

That was a juiced up Nagato with his mobility back and amped by Hachibi's chakra that was easily tagging both Killer Bee and KCM Naruto and reacting to them and fighting them off, yet he couldn't perceive the Totsuka blitz.

yes, but they were also talking. Naruto wasn’t going very hard against Itachi or Nagato at the beginning.

I'll take your word for it, but Killer Bee was much more serious and Itachi was embarrassing him, as well as later being able to tag a juiced up Nagato, and still fight KCM Naruto in CQC.

Not does Itachi’s speed negate the fact that Tobi fits comfortably in the reaction range to Amaterasu if it’s at a distance.

Itachi closes the distance faster this way. Not really sure why you are expecting Obito to move back like that and snipe. He always goes in CQC. And Obito's kamui is short range, it's Kakashi's that snipes from long range, hence Obito going into CQC to use it.

No, but it means Tobi can counter that if Itachi tries it. Which would be a hard set up for him in the first place. Izanagi wasn’t exactly what I meant.

Meant to say Izanami, knowledge on Izanami.



Should really re-read the series. The debates seem more fun than the usual OP ones.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Itachi Susanoo is not sentient though. Itachi has to activate it by activating his Sharingan. An Itachi at death's door vs a healthy Itachi with much better reactions is able to pull it off quicker, no?

None of Kabuto’s senjutsu attacks are as fast as Kirin and Itachi couldn’t get a V3 Susano’o up in time to block those. Keep in mind Edo Tensei have no concept of pain, Itachi had no negative side effects from it. He effectively could pull it up faster thanks to that and still wasn’t getting it out in time.

Orochimaru was looking at Itachi while talking and still couldn't react to it. Let's not pretend he was delivering a theatre play.

So an immobile Orochimaru who had this reaction?

yeah—he gave zero shits about the sword and wasn’t in any position to avoid it anyways.

That was a juiced up Nagato with his mobility back and amped by Hachibi's chakra that was easily tagging both Killer Bee and KCM Naruto and reacting to them and fighting them off, yet he couldn't perceive the Totsuka blitz.

The Hachibi’s chakra didn’t boost any of Nagato’s skills, it merely revitalized his body. He reacted to both Naruto and Killer Bee attacking and could take care of them. He doesn’t have any notable speed feats.

and again, he was being manipulated by Kabuto. He didn’t have a mind of his own.

I'll take your word for it, but Killer Bee was much more serious and Itachi was embarrassing him, as well as later being able to tag a juiced up Nagato, and still fight KCM Naruto in CQC.

Killer bee wasn’t serious.

Translation is a little off— Enka master there says “Killer Bee isn’t taking this completely serious yet” in Viz. but that means 7 tails of V1 chakra cloak isn’t Bee being invested in a fight. Against Itachi he used zero.

Itachi closes the distance faster this way. Not really sure why you are expecting Obito to move back like that and snipe. He always goes in CQC. And Obito's kamui is short range, it's Kakashi's that snipes from long range, hence Obito going into CQC to use it.

There are draw backs to MS techniques like Amaterasu. Itachi isn’t going to bypass them then attack Obito as Obito’s a distance away. He has no reason to get close when he can use large scale Katon to take Itachi down.

Should really re-read the series. The debates seem more fun than the usual OP ones.

Naruto debates are 80% feat based so they’re a lot better.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

None of Kabuto’s senjutsu attacks are as fast as Kirin and Itachi couldn’t get a V3 Susano’o up in time to block those. Keep in mind Edo Tensei have no concept of pain, Itachi had no negative side effects from it. He effectively could pull it up faster thanks to that and still wasn’t getting it out in time.

Was he blocking the attacks successfully though? Or was he protecting Sasuke? I vaguely remember it from the game. And since he wasn't feeling pain did he need to block it at all?

yeah—he gave zero shits about the sword and wasn’t in any position to avoid it anyways.

But he couldn't avoid it because he was blitzed.

The Hachibi’s chakra didn’t boost any of Nagato’s skills, it merely revitalized his body.

And brought back his mobility. Chakra from the tailed beasts boosts up the stats bro.

Translation is a little off— Enka master there says “Killer Bee isn’t taking this completely serious yet” in Viz. but that means 7 tails of V1 chakra cloak isn’t Bee being invested in a fight. Against Itachi he used zero.

But neither was Itachi that much. He was using genjutsu and taijutsu from what I remember.

He has no reason to get close when he can use large scale Katon to take Itachi down.

Itachi will burn through them with Amaterasu or protect himself with Susanno.

Naruto debates are 80% feat based so they’re a lot better.

Maybe. But it sucks since I am doing it from memory from like 4 years ago. Who knows what I am forgetting to mention. I don't feel comfortable like that.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Was he blocking the attacks successfully though? Or was he protecting Sasuke? I vaguely remember it from the game. And since he wasn't feeling pain did he need to block it at all?

There was really no reason to let himself be injured and forced to regen there. He didn’t know what Kabuto would or could do next.

But he couldn't avoid it because he was blitzed.

alright. Itachi blitzed an unmoving target. Good feat.

And brought back his mobility. Chakra from the tailed beasts boosts up the stats bro.

absorbing =\= as chakra cloaks though. Kisame absorbed plenty, as did Madara and neither received any explicit boost from that. It revitalized Nagato and that’s it.

not that he has any good speed feats even Prime wise.

But neither was Itachi that much. He was using genjutsu and taijutsu from what I remember.

Yeah but your claim is Killer Bee being much more serious was way off, considering somewhat serious is >>>>>>> what Bee showed against Itachi.

Itachi will burn through them with Amaterasu or protect himself with Susanno.

okay so now Itachi needs to use MS techniques to defend against casual katon from Obito. This isn’t a good solution and it’ll only hasten Itachi’s demise.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

There was really no reason to let himself be injured and forced to regen there. He didn’t know what Kabuto would or could do next.

But if he can just regen through it why not. As long as Sasuke was safe.

alright. Itachi blitzed an unmoving target. Good feat.

Bite me. You know what I meant.

It revitalized Nagato and that’s it.

Even if it did just that an immobile Nagato was reacting to Bee. Logically the mobile version is faster lmfao.

Yeah but your claim is Killer Bee being much more serious was way off, considering somewhat serious is >>>>>>> what Bee showed against Itachi.

OK. Will have to reread it then. And I meant more serious than Naruto. And still a casual Itachi was embarrassing a 'casual' Bee.

okay so now Itachi needs to use MS techniques to defend against casual katon from Obito. This isn’t a good solution and it’ll only hasten Itachi’s demise.

That or dodge them altogether. He doesn't have to use it for all the katons that come his way.


That's as far as I am able to go. When I re-read it, or just the Itachi parts, I'll answer in more detail.

 

[Marimo_420]

Itachi negs

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

But if he can just regen through it why not. As long as Sasuke was safe.

...Why would Itachi let himself be attacked though? He has infinite and regenerating Chakra. There’s no justification to allow yourself to be damaged that badly and give Kabuto a chance to press his advantage.

I mean look at this. If Amaterasu didn’t work they’d of been in deep shit. Itachi couldn’t get susano’o up fast enough.

Bite me. You know what I meant.

i mean again, it’s a speed feat against an immobile character who has in his prime... zero exceptional speed feats to speak of. He scales to Jiraya at best.

Even if it did just that an immobile Nagato was reacting to Bee. Logically the mobile version is faster lmfao.

I mean yeah, but Nagato’s issue is mobility and the fact he wasn’t in control of his own functions.

So Itachi managed to seal away Nagato who wasn’t himself and whose issue is mobility...

OK. Will have to reread it then. And I meant more serious than Naruto. And still a casual Itachi was embarrassing a 'casual' Bee.

Itachi was more serious, busting out genjutsu and his Sharingan against Bee with Samehada — a weapon he isn’t suited to use and has never used effectively in his lofe

That or dodge them altogether. He doesn't have to use it for all the katons that come his way.


That's as far as I am able to go. When I re-read it, or just the Itachi parts, I'll answer in more detail.

This Katon is the size of the Juubi... the Juubi is huge.

There is nooooo dodging that Katon.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

...Why would Itachi let himself be attacked though? He has infinite and regenerating Chakra. There’s no justification to allow yourself to be damaged that badly and give Kabuto a chance to press his advantage.

I mean look at this. If Amaterasu didn’t work they’d of been in deep shit. Itachi couldn’t get susano’o up fast enough.

i mean again, it’s a speed feat against an immobile character who has in his prime... zero exceptional speed feats to speak of. He scales to Jiraya at best.

I mean yeah, but Nagato’s issue is mobility and the fact he wasn’t in control of his own functions.

So Itachi managed to seal away Nagato who wasn’t himself and whose issue is mobility...

Itachi was more serious, busting out genjutsu and his Sharingan against Bee with Samehada — a weapon he isn’t suited to use and has never used effectively in his lofe

This Katon is the size of the Juubi... the Juubi is huge.

There is nooooo dodging that Katon.

I'll answer this either later or when I read the relevant parts.

 

[Vlad D. Impaler]

Kamui is really hax ability, but prodigious shinobi such as 4th Hokage saw through it and smashed Obito into dirt. Itachi was an excellent tactician, executing his plans from beyond the grave. Not to mention he's very powerful Shinobi.

Although, Obito is an excellent fighter too, it took 9 tales Naruto, Guy, Kakashi and Bee to beat him. Although it seems in a fight if someone figures out how to bypass his Kamui, he looses most of bis edge. And seeing that, when it came to observing and planning, Itachi's second to none, imo sooner or later he'll figure out how to beat the Kamui, like others did.

 

[Amelya]

Nothing stops Obito from entering Itachi's susano and take him out, especially if it's living Itachi who won't be in a good shape when manifesting susano so his reactions will be hindered as well. Izanagi is also a thing.
However if it's Edo Itachi, I can see him winning by feinting Obito into a Totsuka blitz when the latter goes tangible as the battle drags out for some time with both fighters stalling each other. At least Edo Itachi won't be helpless inside of susano when Obito appears inside of it

 

[Ograg fromHouseIsland]

G

Both Itachi and Obito are Toolbox, by his plot infinite genius, Itachi could plot win; by his second to maybe Minato only reaction time, Obito could plot win.

Rinnegan, Totsuka blade, Izanagi, Izanagi, Kamui and stuff we didn't see. Plenty of way to give the victory to one or the other.

🌴 NOW, what I want, the plot that I want :

Itachi spies on Orochimaru and gain Edo-Tensei.
He Edo-Tensei Rin by sacrifing himself ( who see Itachi sacrifice someone else ? )
Rin explains to Obito that she wait for him in Heavens.
Obito decide to be useful to Konoha, by becoming Konoha strongest warrior at the time, and if Konoha shinobis accept it, even Hokage.

Kakashi Happy, Rin Happy, Obito Happy, Itachi kind of Happy.

Both are victorious !

👍

 

[Shuyaku]

In my opinion that's way too abstract a fight to make a detailed argument about.

I expect Itachi to have fundamental knowledge of Tobi's Kamui, similar to Konan, but he apparently didn't know of his Izanagi, hence the failure of the Amaterasu trap. Tobi on the other hand should have pretty extensive knowledge of Itachi's abilities, with only Yata, Totsuka and Izanami being questionable.
Hype is kind of disregardable, here. From what I recall, Tobi had an incredibly high opinion of Itachi and knew how skilled he was, while I think it was implied Itachi was weary of Tobi and avoided facing him directly, but that was under the impression of him being Madara, which implies a lot more strength than swirly-mask Tobi actually had.

Argument for Tobi:
Tobi's onyl way to win is by absorbing Itachi. Amaterasu is an effective counter to any absorption attempts, but only as long as Izanagi isn't active. As soon as that's the case, Tobi could try a brute-strategy similar to Danzo, tanking any damage (even Amaterasu) just to be able to absorb Itachi. But then there's Susanoo's instant activation speed, and being crushed to the floor would definitely stop the absorption process. Tobi's absorption was hinted to also work instantly or at least accelerated after he failed absorbing Minato, but I have yet to see proof of that. So Tobi's best shot would be similar to Danzo's, trying to wear Itachi out by forcing him to use straineous MS-techniques. I don't consider Tobi's small-scale usage of Mokuton any threat, considering Itachi's speed, agility and Susanoo.

Argument for Itachi:
It's vice versa, Itachi's only way of harming Tobi is Amaterasu, but that only until Izanagi is used. He'd have to try and wear Danzo's Izanagi out, which I cannot see happening with only MS techniques having the potential to actually harm him. Itachi has, however, a pretty good shot at defeating Tobi with Izanami. Once he's in Izanami-trance, Itachi is free to murder him any way he wishes. If Tobi opted for a brute Izanagi strategy, forcing Itachi to continuously use Amaterasu, I could very well see the latter recreating a physical sensation twice and thus activating Izanami without seeming suspicious. It's Itachi, after all.


A case could be made for either one, but since Izanami was created solely to punish Izanagi-users, I'll follow this satisfying storyline and give it to the one and only solo-king. I do, however, consider Tobi to be overall stronger, since his mix of techniques is pretty damn OP and makes him invincible for most people, especially pre-war.

Kamui GG

the duality of man

 

[chacharealsmooth]

Kamui is really hax ability, but prodigious shinobi such as 4th Hokage saw through it and smashed Obito into dirt. Itachi was an excellent tactician, executing his plans from beyond the grave. Not to mention he's very powerful Shinobi.

Although, Obito is an excellent fighter too, it took 9 tales Naruto, Guy, Kakashi and Bee to beat him. Although it seems in a fight if someone figures out how to bypass his Kamui, he looses most of bis edge. And seeing that, when it came to observing and planning, Itachi's second to none, imo sooner or later he'll figure out how to beat the Kamui, like others did.

He mainly lost his edge because Kakashi was there, not because his abilities were learned. Kakashi has access to the same dimension and Obito was not able to travel between dimensions without any risk from that point onwards

 

[Enma]

Sure, but there is plenty of downsides

Kamui is really hax ability, but prodigious shinobi such as 4th Hokage saw through it and smashed Obito into dirt. Itachi was an excellent tactician, executing his plans from beyond the grave. Not to mention he's very powerful Shinobi.

Although, Obito is an excellent fighter too, it took 9 tales Naruto, Guy, Kakashi and Bee to beat him. Although it seems in a fight if someone figures out how to bypass his Kamui, he looses most of bis edge. And seeing that, when it came to observing and planning, Itachi's second to none, imo sooner or later he'll figure out how to beat the Kamui, like others did.

1) It was 14 years old Obito.
2) Minato pulled it off because of Raijin. Itachi doesn't have it.
3) He needs a time to figure it out, which he may not have.

 

[Finalbeta]

Itachi is the smarter fighter, Obito has got a huge endurance advantage with his chakra.

He can use Izanami countless times while Itachi would eventually get tired here.

However Itachi just needs to pull off a Tsukuyomi or an Amaterasu in order to take it.

 

[chacharealsmooth]

Itachi is the smarter fighter, Obito has got a huge endurance advantage with his chakra.

He can use Izanami countless times while Itachi would eventually get tired here.

However Itachi just needs to pull off a Tsukuyomi or an Amaterasu in order to take it.

Amaterasu is definitely not a solution imho. Obito is keeping spare organs in his pocket dimension, there is no reason for him to not go there and replace whatever is burned. Amaterasu is a dangerous ability but chakra absorption, chakra cloaks, clothes and expandable organs are hard counters to the ability.
Tsukoyomi is not a solution here either. Obito is extremely adept at genjutsu and can notice when Itachi is going to cast one. Izanagi and gg in this case.

 

[FloriGlori]

Obito is keeping spare organs in his pocket dimension

Been a long time since I read and argued Naruto, where was that shown or implied?