Spoiler Unfiltered Kingdom Talks - Historical info & all that jazz (Beware)

@TheKnightOfTheSea

I think Kouen might be sort of a "co-shared" enemy for Ousen and Shin.

Historically speaking, Ousen was that guy in Chu. Manga wise I can see Ousen and Shin getting even equal credit for Chu's fall. Or Ousen still edges him out and then Shin becomes the GOAT in Qi.

In any case I think they will be the two most impressive.



Karin is the FV shut up:endthis:
Well if we're going off history
Why would Shin and Ousen get equal credit during Chu when Shin's greatest blunder happened during that campaign? The whole reason why Ousen was that guy was because Shin got over-confident and got his kicked.
 
Well if we're going off history
Why would Shin and Ousen get equal credit during Chu when Shin's greatest blunder happened during that campaign? The whole reason why Ousen was that guy was because Shin got over-confident and got his kicked.
Because he's the mc?
Besides Shin was betrayed and ambushed not like Ousen who got rolled over in a fair battle 2 weeks ago
With Yoko, Renpa and probably Kou En, Shin is guaranteed to slay 3 great generals, a feat probably never heard of before.
 
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Well if we're going off history
Why would Shin and Ousen get equal credit during Chu when Shin's greatest blunder happened during that campaign? The whole reason why Ousen was that guy was because Shin got over-confident and got his kicked.
Hara is obviously gonna give him a huge "comeback" arc. Kouen destroys him the first time around, so he's gonna get the revenge. Shin is also tied to Renpa (who is in Chu), Sanyou pretty much foreshadows them fighting again and Shin surpassing the old gen by killing Renpa.

Mind you, I think it's very possible that Ousen gets the most credit out of Qin for Chu's conquest, like in history. He's gonna be bonkers. But given this is the manga, with the MC aiming to be the greatest and the various important Chu figures he will be connected to, it's also possible that Shin gets just as much credit as Ousen and they co share that first spot.
 
Because he's the mc?
Besides Shin was betrayed and ambushed not like Ousen who got rolled over in a fair battle 2 weeks ago
With Yoko, Renpa and probably Kou En, Shin is guaranteed to slay 3 great generals, a feat probably never heard of before.
This isn't a battle shounen lol, this is a historical manga where Hara has sticked to the script for the overwhelming majority of the story. Having Shin and Ousen share equal credit in an arc where historically, that doesn't happen doesn't make sense.

Shin was also ambushed and betrayed because he got cocky, that doesn't excuse the fact that he lost in a fair fight.....badly. The same way that Ousen got rolled over in a fight because what do you know? He got cocky and lost.

Hara is obviously gonna give him a huge "comeback" arc. Kouen destroys him the first time around, so he's gonna get the revenge. Shin is also tied to Renpa (who is in Chu), Sanyou pretty much foreshadows them fighting again and Shin surpassing the old gen by killing Renpa.

Mind you, I think it's very possible that Ousen gets the most credit out of Qin for Chu's conquest, like in history. He's gonna be bonkers. But given this is the manga, with the MC aiming to be the greatest and the various important Chu figures he will be connected to, it's also possible that Shin gets just as much credit as Ousen and they co share that first spot.
Like someone else said, it's more likely he bounces back against another state or gets his redemption arc down the line.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
Uncensored (minor) historical spoilers ahead.

I was having a look at a martial tier list I am making (stand by for that) and I made an interesting observation around Shibasaku:


The wings on his helmet reminded me somewhat of the 6 wings Sei bestowed upon his 6 Greats:


I will now post a brief, minor historical spoiler-ish summary on Shibasaku that I found on Reddit:

Sima Cuo - Shi Ba Saku (First expansion of Qin):

Considered the best Qin general in history before the deeds of Bai Qi and Wang Jian. Sima Cou from the legendary Sima family had an impecable military career and was the first great military expansionist for Qin, by his command Qin conquered and subdued the States of Shu and Ba, he had a successful campaign in Wei as well and an attack on Chu, setting the basis of the Qin state as a military superpower, he created a momentum that [Hakuki] took pretty good advantage of.

You see while generals like Ouki, Koshou, and Kyou were irl Great Generals of Qin, their actual achievements are not anywhere near as romanticized as they are in the manga. Shibasaku is quite different, historically he was a majorly successful great general and one of the most important in Qin history. I have even seen some sources call him one of the top 4 most important generals in Qin history next to Hakuki, Ousen, and Mouten.

There is a famous story about Shibasaku from the times just before the formation of the original 6 Great Generals of Qin:

Back when the state of Qin was small and weak, King Shou summoned Shibasaku and another general (forgot who, doesn’t matter) to talk with them about what they believed the objective of the Qin military should be.

The first general laid out a plan that we would actually see Shouheikun attempting to execute in the actual Kingdom manga: conquering the state of Han and using the conquered territory as a checkmate strategy against all of the other states.

Shibasaku then argued that the first general’s plan would never work, as Qin was too small and weak to defend itself from the other states ganging up on them if they attempted the Han strategy. He instead argued that Qin should subdue the aforementioned Shu and Ba, and then did so before having more success in Wei and Chu. It was by Shibasaku’s strategy and advice (and later Hakuki and the rest of the Qin 6) that Qin went from being a Han-tier state to a military superpower and the second strongest in China.

Bringing this back full circle to what I posted about Ei Sei’s 6 being granted “wings”, I believe Hara will give Shibasaku credit with the foundation of the Qin 6 system itself, since irl it was Shibasaku who originally birthed the Qin war machine. So I’m wondering if the wings on Shibasaku’s helmet are a reference to the wings Sei later gives his Qin 6. If so, Hara is truly a madman who has planned every ounce of his manga from the start.

@Owl Ki @MarineHQ @Bullet @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @SakazOuki @Cichy etc
@Xione
 
One interesting thing about Han is that few years after they were conquered in 226 B.C they launched a failed rebellion. This makes me think the current arc might not be the last time we see them in action.

I'm curious how Hara will handle this given that he is trying to potray Qin's rule there as some sort of utopia.
 
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