Controversial Was the pie bad or good??
- Thread starter soheilhazrat
- Start date
Well, it's kind of both. Because it's not really about the cherry pie. It's about what the cherry pie REPRESENTS!
...Yes, seriously, stay with me on this.
Because Luffy and Blackbeard didn't JUST have opposite opinions on the cherry pie. They also had opposite opinions on the meat and drink. (Chapter 223) Luffy LOVED the meat and drink, and Blackbeard hated them both.
So, why is that? What is Oda trying to say?
Well, just a few chapters later, we got a key scene for Blackbeard. "A man's dream...CAN NEVER DIE!" (Chapter 225). Both Luffy and Zoro seem disturbed by this line, for some reason. Again, you have to ask why? So, I think these two early scenes are connected.
Blackbeard likes cherry pie because they represent continuing the eternal cycle of repeating history. Eternal life, dreams never ending. While the meat and drink represent finality and breaking that same cycle. Progression, and dreams being fulfilled.
Luffy wants his dream to be fulfilled, and thus it will eventually naturally end. Unlike Blackbeard's dream. This scene represents that they have two incompatible philosophies and dreams.
Cherries are perennial plants. They grow new fruit every year, no matter what. The same fruit grows from the same trees. So, you can always make more cherry pies. Because more cherries will always grow from the same tree. Cherries can also represent eternal life. Ambrosia in Greek Mythology, which is what gave the Gods their immortality, was possibly made out of cherries. And in China, the Phoenix is said to sleep on a bed of cherry blossoms to give it eternal life.
https://www.harryanddavid.com/articles/food-drink/cherry-facts
https://medium.com/@tej88/an-enlightening-overview-of-the-symbolism-behind-cherries-b5d408912025
https://www.bbg.org/article/cherry_trees_in_japanese_folklore
https://treespiritwisdom.com/tree-spirit-wisdom/cherry-tree-symbolism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konohanasakuya-hime
Even the "pie" part of this fits. Because pies were first invented in order to help preserve foods. If you leave a fruit out on it's own, it'll eventually rot in a short amount of time. But, if you cook it, and combine it with other ingredients, it can last you the entire winter. It helps "extend the life" of the fruit. "Pies" represent keeping something "alive" as long as possible.
https://coldhollow.com/blogs/news/a...5oRnMWGgQJ0Cjep_vjuIQaO3kdzIiQ_bd1NY8AWCnAPgl
But, with meat, once you kill that animal, you'll never have quite that same meat again. Because the animal it came from is dead and gone. You can eat it's children, which is similar. But, not quite the same. With meat, you always have to move forward. Meat represents a journey's end and death, in some ways.
Same thing with the drink. The "drink" was probably sake. Sake is made from fermented rice. And you have to re-plant rice every year, if you want a new harvest. Rice is not a perennial plant, it's a annual. (Although, that's started to change with new varieties, but let's just ignore that for now. There's a reason why you classically see farmers planting rice and singing out in fields in manga set during feudal times.)
https://www.science.org/content/art...r-genetic-tinkering-could-make-it-more-apples
https://japansake.or.jp/sake/en/basic/how-is-sake-made/
Also, drinking sake together usually symbolizes forming new bonds with someone. Whether that's at a wedding or a Yakuza loyalty swearing ceremony. It's something that you drink to celebrate some sort of change. Moving from one phase of life to another.
https://www.tippsysake.com/blogs/post/sake-ceremonies-and-traditions
https://shaze.in/blogs/ideas-and-tr...g3DRWEvqiO1NGGxu2nHkk5-YXLNYFU1PRtEpsCTHb-iLb
https://japansake.or.jp/sake/en/basic/sake-tradition-culture/
One set of foods represent eternal repetition and the other set of foods represent change and progression.
So, yeah, that entire scene is basically about contrasting their two very different philosophies about how dreams should work. Should they go on forever, or should they be fulfilled and end? And there is a decent argument to be made for both sides. But, probably just like in Buddhism, the eventual goal really should be to escape the endless cycle of life, not just enjoy the endless repetition. Luffy is probably "more correct"...if only because he's the main character.
https://www.exoticindiaart.com/blog...QKkeyYq2b_vdVDa5XnUisg3MH29O42Ym77GyY1HJI_THa
https://medium.com/@srkageyama/budd...d-eliminate-suffering-completely-b382ddfbf64b
Blackbeard is a "Circle", Luffy is a "Spiral". Very similar, but also fundamentally different. It's about seeking Consistancy versus seeking Growth.
...Probably. We still don't know for sure what Blackbeard's deal is. But...this sounds pretty good, right? Hopefully. It SOUNDS deep, at least.
...Yes, seriously, stay with me on this.
Because Luffy and Blackbeard didn't JUST have opposite opinions on the cherry pie. They also had opposite opinions on the meat and drink. (Chapter 223) Luffy LOVED the meat and drink, and Blackbeard hated them both.
So, why is that? What is Oda trying to say?
Well, just a few chapters later, we got a key scene for Blackbeard. "A man's dream...CAN NEVER DIE!" (Chapter 225). Both Luffy and Zoro seem disturbed by this line, for some reason. Again, you have to ask why? So, I think these two early scenes are connected.
Blackbeard likes cherry pie because they represent continuing the eternal cycle of repeating history. Eternal life, dreams never ending. While the meat and drink represent finality and breaking that same cycle. Progression, and dreams being fulfilled.
Luffy wants his dream to be fulfilled, and thus it will eventually naturally end. Unlike Blackbeard's dream. This scene represents that they have two incompatible philosophies and dreams.
Cherries are perennial plants. They grow new fruit every year, no matter what. The same fruit grows from the same trees. So, you can always make more cherry pies. Because more cherries will always grow from the same tree. Cherries can also represent eternal life. Ambrosia in Greek Mythology, which is what gave the Gods their immortality, was possibly made out of cherries. And in China, the Phoenix is said to sleep on a bed of cherry blossoms to give it eternal life.
https://www.harryanddavid.com/articles/food-drink/cherry-facts
https://medium.com/@tej88/an-enlightening-overview-of-the-symbolism-behind-cherries-b5d408912025
https://www.bbg.org/article/cherry_trees_in_japanese_folklore
https://treespiritwisdom.com/tree-spirit-wisdom/cherry-tree-symbolism/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konohanasakuya-hime
Even the "pie" part of this fits. Because pies were first invented in order to help preserve foods. If you leave a fruit out on it's own, it'll eventually rot in a short amount of time. But, if you cook it, and combine it with other ingredients, it can last you the entire winter. It helps "extend the life" of the fruit. "Pies" represent keeping something "alive" as long as possible.
https://coldhollow.com/blogs/news/a...5oRnMWGgQJ0Cjep_vjuIQaO3kdzIiQ_bd1NY8AWCnAPgl
But, with meat, once you kill that animal, you'll never have quite that same meat again. Because the animal it came from is dead and gone. You can eat it's children, which is similar. But, not quite the same. With meat, you always have to move forward. Meat represents a journey's end and death, in some ways.
Same thing with the drink. The "drink" was probably sake. Sake is made from fermented rice. And you have to re-plant rice every year, if you want a new harvest. Rice is not a perennial plant, it's a annual. (Although, that's started to change with new varieties, but let's just ignore that for now. There's a reason why you classically see farmers planting rice and singing out in fields in manga set during feudal times.)
https://www.science.org/content/art...r-genetic-tinkering-could-make-it-more-apples
https://japansake.or.jp/sake/en/basic/how-is-sake-made/
Also, drinking sake together usually symbolizes forming new bonds with someone. Whether that's at a wedding or a Yakuza loyalty swearing ceremony. It's something that you drink to celebrate some sort of change. Moving from one phase of life to another.
https://www.tippsysake.com/blogs/post/sake-ceremonies-and-traditions
https://shaze.in/blogs/ideas-and-tr...g3DRWEvqiO1NGGxu2nHkk5-YXLNYFU1PRtEpsCTHb-iLb
https://japansake.or.jp/sake/en/basic/sake-tradition-culture/
One set of foods represent eternal repetition and the other set of foods represent change and progression.
So, yeah, that entire scene is basically about contrasting their two very different philosophies about how dreams should work. Should they go on forever, or should they be fulfilled and end? And there is a decent argument to be made for both sides. But, probably just like in Buddhism, the eventual goal really should be to escape the endless cycle of life, not just enjoy the endless repetition. Luffy is probably "more correct"...if only because he's the main character.
https://www.exoticindiaart.com/blog...QKkeyYq2b_vdVDa5XnUisg3MH29O42Ym77GyY1HJI_THa
https://medium.com/@srkageyama/budd...d-eliminate-suffering-completely-b382ddfbf64b
Blackbeard is a "Circle", Luffy is a "Spiral". Very similar, but also fundamentally different. It's about seeking Consistancy versus seeking Growth.
...Probably. We still don't know for sure what Blackbeard's deal is. But...this sounds pretty good, right? Hopefully. It SOUNDS deep, at least.
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