Break Week What are Swordsmen? What does it mean to be WSS? Directly answered by Zoro

[Shanal]

This should be obvious to most people, yet somehow it's still discussed over and over again with dozen different, insane takes.

"Anyone who uses a sword is a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses a sword for most of their attacks is a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses anything other than a sword ain't a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses other stuff as much as swordsmanship ain't a swordsman!"
"WSS is about the mastery of pure swordsman skills!"

Literally every single one of these takes are complete and utter headcanon. Pure fan opinion. Oda did not give a manual on what makes a swordsman. And becoming WSS is not your dream or mine, but Zoro's.

Only thing that matters is how Zoro thinks. And according to Zoro:

You can use your sword for plenty of your attacks, and yet still not be a SM if you don't consider yourself one:

Likewise, you can use plenty of things other than just your sword (Cabaji relied on beyblades and fire tricks) yet still be a swordsman if you consider yourself one:

AKA, fighting style isn't super important. Swordsmen have vastly different fighting styles even between themselves. Only thing that matters is if they're canonically considered swordsman... either per their own words, or by the narrator/Oda.

Anything else is irrelevant headcanon.

Also, what's WSS, you ask?

"I can't lose, not even once, to anyone who calls himself a swordsman," vs a swordsman who constantly used beyblades and random tricks to fight.

Should be self-explanatory.

 

[Salah WG]

Yeah, He indeed said He won't Lose to anyone who calls himself a Swordsman, but did He say "It's Fine if i Lose to Others"?
After He lost to Mihawk, what did He Promise?

Also, why take One Statement & ignore the Rest as if Zoro's Dream cannot be Expanded on,
It's like saying Pirate King means finding One Piece, it doesn't mean finding Four Road Poneglyphs & finding Laugh Tale & getting a Crew needed for the Job ... etc

It's obvious that if No One considers you a Swordsman then you aren't in Conversation for WSS, but an Achievement isn't Defined by who Participated in it (For example, who is Sanji competing against to Find All Blue? or other SHs & their Dreams? No One, but it doesn't change the Fact that No One in the World can achieve them, regardless if They tried or not, except SHs)

WSS is Defined by it's Requirements, that's what lets People know if it's a Dream worthy of being among SHs Impossible Dreams or just something that many can achieve,

Do you want me to tell you what Requirements Zoro discovered?
Since you mentioned his First Ever Fight against Cabaji, why don't We look at his Future Fights,

Zoro would have Lost against Hatchan if his Sword was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against Daz if his Lethality was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against Ohm if his AP/Strength was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against Kaku if his Technique was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against Ryuma if his Attack Speed was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against Hyouzou if his CoO was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against Pica if his CoA was Lacking,
Zoro would have Lost against King if his CoC was Lacking,

Do you see now what are the Requirements for Zoro to achieve his Dream & Live true to his Words?
It doesn't matter who calls himself Swordsman or not, what matters is that Zoro cannot achieve his Goal if He doesn't Perfect those,
So anyone who relies on a Sword, are Lethal with it, rely on their Power/Strength & Speed, have Techniques They Mastered, can use any Type of Haki are Automatically Zoro/Mihawk Victims, regardless if They wanna call themselves Swordsman or Wifi-Men,

As for King, Zoro was annoyed cuz King tried to Win without relying on any of those, (Trap Weapon, Trying to Push him Off Island)
Dirty Tactics are not within WSS Path, that's why Zoro said that,

Even Cabaji himself, He was relying on Dirty Tactics (Including getting Help from Buggy), but once none of his Moves work, what did this so-called Swordsman say? He said He is gonna Win using his Swordsmanship, so Cabaji is Separating Dirty Fighting from Real Swordsmanship & even though He relies on it, He still is a Swordsman, which same applies to King, and also Ohm who was relying on his Iron Trial, and also Hatchan who also can Fight without Swords (Literally his Last Technique before Losing was without Swords) ... etc

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Also, what's WSS, you ask?

You havent answered this

 

[kekaro]

Real and true

 

[Shanal]

You havent answered this

"I can't lose, not even once, to anyone who calls himself a swordsman,"

-Zoro

Basically if he's fighting a swordsman, he must win the 1v1 no matter what, every single time. That's being WSS. Note that he said it against a dude who used beyblades and flamethrower to fight. So it doesn't even matter what's the fighting style of that SM is.

If SM, WSS gotta win. That's that

 

[Rootbeer]

That doesn't take context into consideration, but you know my argument so i will spare you..

 

[Lor D. Coast]

Cabaji relied on beyblades

We need to move Cabaji up in the charts.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

"I can't lose, not even once, to anyone who calls himself a swordsman,"

-Zoro

Basically if he's fighting a swordsman, he must win the 1v1 no matter what, every single time. That's being WSS. Note that he said it against a dude who used beyblades and flamethrower to fight. So it doesn't even matter what's the fighting style of that SM is.

If SM, WSS gotta win. That's that

And a swordsman is someone who calls themselves a swordsman… that’s your conclusion right?

so what’s swordsmanship? In that King vs Zoro exchange, you left out the part where King EXPLAINS why he isn’t a swordsman. King says he doesn’t use sword style or sword techniques. That’s king’s explanation for why he isn’t a swordsman

But you don’t agree with King, right? You think Swordsman is an identity, like an LGBTQ identity. It’s just a thing people feel about themselves as opposed to a description of their fighting styles.

King says he doesn’t use Swordsmanship so that’s why he isn’t a swordsman… You don’t agree. You think Swordsmanship is irrelevant and King simply had to say “I’m a swordsman” and he would be one… Even if he continued not to use swordsmanship as he said he doesn’t…

Strange then when Mihawk’s bounty was being revealed, Oda thought it was wise to highlight how incredible Mihawk’s Swordsmanship is… Yet it doesn’t matter, right? The only think that matters is that Mihawk calls himself a swordsman. Him having “superior swordsmanship to Shanks” is meaningless statement since swordsmanship doesn’t matter in your entire analysis

 

[Blazing Lion]

King is a swordsman

 

[nik87]

This should be obvious to most people, yet somehow it's still discussed over and over again with dozen different, insane takes.

"Anyone who uses a sword is a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses a sword for most of their attacks is a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses anything other than a sword ain't a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses other stuff as much as swordsmanship ain't a swordsman!"
"WSS is about the mastery of pure swordsman skills!"

Literally every single one of these takes are complete and utter headcanon. Pure fan opinion. Oda did not give a manual on what makes a swordsman. And becoming WSS is not your dream or mine, but Zoro's.

Only thing that matters is how Zoro thinks. And according to Zoro:

You can use your sword for plenty of your attacks, and yet still not be a SM if you don't consider yourself one:

Likewise, you can use plenty of things other than just your sword (Cabaji relied on beyblades and fire tricks) yet still be a swordsman if you consider yourself one:

AKA, fighting style isn't super important. Swordsmen have vastly different fighting styles even between themselves. Only thing that matters is if they're canonically considered swordsman... either per their own words, or by the narrator/Oda.

Anything else is irrelevant headcanon.

Also, what's WSS, you ask?

"I can't lose, not even once, to anyone who calls himself a swordsman," vs a swordsman who constantly used beyblades and random tricks to fight.

Should be self-explanatory.

You are wrong, you are self-contraining yourself with Oda's baits.
And you are not applying any logic to Zoro's/Mihawk's desire - they did not choose the path of swordsmen to nerf themselves, they chose it because that is the path that leads to the highest peak in the world.

Whether one is a swordsman or not, ultimately it doesnt matter. They all lose to Zoro/Mihawk, because they are the strongest.
Zoro's statement that he cannot lose to anyone who calls himself a swordsman is irrelevant, he literally said a loss is not an option while fighting King and that he is willing to bite King's throat if it will lead him to victory.

He remembers the promise of never losing again, after he beat King.
The constant debates about whether one is a swordsman or not literally do not matter.

 

[Rootbeer]

And a swordsman is someone who calls themselves a swordsman… that’s your conclusion right?

so what’s swordsmanship? In that King vs Zoro exchange, you left out the part where King EXPLAINS why he isn’t a swordsman. King says he doesn’t use sword style or sword techniques. That’s king’s explanation for why he isn’t a swordsman

But you don’t agree with King, right? You think Swordsman is an identity, like an LGBTQ identity. It’s just a thing people feel about themselves as opposed to a description of their fighting styles.

King says he doesn’t use Swordsmanship so that’s why he isn’t a swordsman… You don’t agree. You think Swordsmanship is irrelevant and King simply had to say “I’m a swordsman” and he would be one… Even if he continued not to use swordsmanship as he said he doesn’t…

Strange then when Mihawk’s bounty was being revealed, Oda thought it was wise to highlight how incredible Mihawk’s Swordsmanship is… Yet it doesn’t matter, right? The only think that matters is that Mihawk calls himself a swordsman. Him having “superior swordsmanship to Shanks” is meaningless statement since swordsmanship doesn’t matter in your entire analysis

King's case is more ambiguous..

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

King's case is more ambiguous..

Is it? Oda himself thinks there something important about “swordsmanship” even outside of king denouncing it. Oda thinks it’s supposed to be impressive that Mihawk has “Superior swordsmanship to shanks” but according to many people here, Oda is wrong here

According to some people it’s either

1. Shanks doesn’t fight using swordsmanship so this statement of Mihawk having “superior swordsmanship” means as much as saying “Mihawk has superior swordsmanship to Garp”

2. Or being a swordsman has nothing to do with swordsmanship and Mihawk being the strongest swordsman mean he’s the “Most Swordsman”. As in he identifies THE most as a swordsman. Since being a Swordsman is just an identity, being the best Swordsman is just identifying the most as a swordsman. (This is what you think Rootbeer, that being a swordsman is about following the ONE UNIVERSAL SWORDSMAN WAY THAT EVERY SWORDSMAN IN THE STORY FOLLOWS TO IDENTIFY AS A SWORDSMAN)

 

[Rootbeer]

Is it? Oda himself thinks there something important about “swordsmanship” even outside of king denouncing it. Oda thinks it’s supposed to be impressive that Mihawk has “Superior swordsmanship to shanks” but according to many people here, Oda is wrong here

According to some people it’s either

1. Shanks doesn’t fight using swordsmanship so this statement of Mihawk having “superior swordsmanship” means as much as saying “Mihawk has superior swordsmanship to Garp”

2. Or being a swordsman has nothing to do with swordsmanship and Mihawk being the strongest swordsman mean he’s the “Most Swordsman”. As in he identifies THE most as a swordsman. Since being a Swordsman is just an identity, being the best Swordsman is just identifying the most as a swordsman. (This is what you think Rootbeer, that being a swordsman is about following the ONE UNIVERSAL SWORDSMAN WAY THAT EVERY SWORDSMAN IN THE STORY FOLLOWS TO IDENTIFY AS A SWORDSMAN)

Post automatically merged: Today at 12:11 AM

Is it? Oda himself thinks there something important about “swordsmanship” even outside of king denouncing it. Oda thinks it’s supposed to be impressive that Mihawk has “Superior swordsmanship to shanks” but according to many people here, Oda is wrong here

According to some people it’s either

1. Shanks doesn’t fight using swordsmanship so this statement of Mihawk having “superior swordsmanship” means as much as saying “Mihawk has superior swordsmanship to Garp”

2. Or being a swordsman has nothing to do with swordsmanship and Mihawk being the strongest swordsman mean he’s the “Most Swordsman”. As in he identifies THE most as a swordsman. Since being a Swordsman is just an identity, being the best Swordsman is just identifying the most as a swordsman. (This is what you think Rootbeer, that being a swordsman is about following the ONE UNIVERSAL SWORDSMAN WAY THAT EVERY SWORDSMAN IN THE STORY FOLLOWS TO IDENTIFY AS A SWORDSMAN)

King said 2 things..

- You don't need a style or a form to '' fight ''.. Swordsmanship wasn't referred to there..

- He mentions later that he '' loves '' Katana, and that he will give a '' Sword Duel '' to Zoro..

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

If you primarily fight with a sword and use sword techniques (i.e Onigiri or Divine Departure) you're a swordsman.

 

[Rootbeer]

If you primarily fight with a sword and use sword techniques (i.e Onigiri or Divine Departure) you're a swordsman.

You need a Sword Style to be a Swordsman.. Else you're just a Sword user..

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

You need a Sword Style to be a Swordsman.. Else you're just a Sword user..

Huh? Whats Nusjuro sword style or cabji?

 

[Rej]

this video should end all swordsmanship related debates

that dude absolutely killed it

ya'll should watch it and stop with your agendas

edit: heads up: half of the video is about Zoro actually

 

[Reborn]

And a swordsman is someone who calls themselves a swordsman… that’s your conclusion right?

so what’s swordsmanship? In that King vs Zoro exchange, you left out the part where King EXPLAINS why he isn’t a swordsman. King says he doesn’t use sword style or sword techniques. That’s king’s explanation for why he isn’t a swordsman

But you don’t agree with King, right? You think Swordsman is an identity, like an LGBTQ identity. It’s just a thing people feel about themselves as opposed to a description of their fighting styles.

King says he doesn’t use Swordsmanship so that’s why he isn’t a swordsman… You don’t agree. You think Swordsmanship is irrelevant and King simply had to say “I’m a swordsman” and he would be one… Even if he continued not to use swordsmanship as he said he doesn’t…

Strange then when Mihawk’s bounty was being revealed, Oda thought it was wise to highlight how incredible Mihawk’s Swordsmanship is… Yet it doesn’t matter, right? The only think that matters is that Mihawk calls himself a swordsman. Him having “superior swordsmanship to Shanks” is meaningless statement since swordsmanship doesn’t matter in your entire analysis

Can you show me the panel wherein king explains he doesn't consider himself a swordsman because he doesn't use swordsmen techniques

 

[Rootbeer]

Huh? Whats Nusjuro sword style or cabji?

Nasujuro style wasn't announced yet.. Cabaji called himself a Swordsman so his Sword Style is irrelevant..

 

[Kiri]

"You can use your sword for plenty of your attacks, and yet still not be a SM if you don't consider yourself one "

You only post a panel showing Zoro saying he has a point. And therefore ignore the context.

Because what King is talking about here in the first place is being a purist. He literally says he doesn't understand why someone would stick to traditional forms and techniques.

So when he says he's not a swordsman, he's not one in a traditional sense.

So in this context, Zoro is saying King never claimed to be a swordsman in that sense.

It still doesn't change the fact that King is "a man who fights with a sword" which means he is a swordsman for a fact.

The Difference and nuance here is that although King is a swordsman by definition, within said definition of being a swordsman, someone's skill level is also usually specified.

Because King treats swordsmanship as more of a hobby that interests him, rather than something to solely dedicate himself to, we can say that King is merely a hobbyist swordsman, in other words: An Amateur Swordsman.

Someone who engages in a pursuit, but doesn't surround their life around it.

That still doesn't change the fact that he is one, even if he is a middling swordsman at best.

And if King hypothetically tried to deny he is a swordsman in this sense, for whatever reason, he would be objectively wrong, in the same way he would be objectively wrong if he called himself white-skinned