Break Week What are Swordsmen? What does it mean to be WSS? Directly answered by Zoro

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#21
"You can use your sword for plenty of your attacks, and yet still not be a SM if you don't consider yourself one "

You only post a panel showing Zoro saying he has a point. And therefore ignore the context.

Because what King is talking about here in the first place is being a purist. He literally says he doesn't understand why someone would stick to traditional forms and techniques.

So when he says he's not a swordsman, he's not one in a traditional sense.

So in this context, Zoro is saying King never claimed to be a swordsman in that sense.

It still doesn't change the fact that King is "a man who fights with a sword" which means he is a swordsman for a fact.

The Difference and nuance here is that although King is a swordsman by definition, within said definition of being a swordsman, someone's skill level is also usually specified.

Because King treats swordsmanship as more of a hobby that interests him, rather than something to solely dedicate himself to, we can say that King is merely a hobbyist swordsman, in other words: An Amateur Swordsman.

Someone who engages in a pursuit, but doesn't surround their life around it.

That still doesn't change the fact that he is one, even if he is a middling swordsman at best.

And if King hypothetically tried to deny he is a swordsman in this sense, for whatever reason, he would be objectively wrong, in the same way he would be objectively wrong if he called himself white-skinned
He's objectively right to call himself not a swordsman though.

Just fighting with a sword doesn't make you a swordsman.

King doesn't identify himself as swordsmen because he doesn't use swordsmanship as his primary fighting style.

He doesn't follow the code and honour of being swordsman (something which zoro highlighted)

And, he doesn't strive to become better at swordsmanship skills


He's basically a hybrid fighter who wields a sword but doesn't live by it.
 
#22
This should be obvious to most people, yet somehow it's still discussed over and over again with dozen different, insane takes.

"Anyone who uses a sword is a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses a sword for most of their attacks is a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses anything other than a sword ain't a swordsman!"
"Anyone who uses other stuff as much as swordsmanship ain't a swordsman!"
"WSS is about the mastery of pure swordsman skills!"

Literally every single one of these takes are complete and utter headcanon. Pure fan opinion. Oda did not give a manual on what makes a swordsman. And becoming WSS is not your dream or mine, but Zoro's.

Only thing that matters is how Zoro thinks. And according to Zoro:

You can use your sword for plenty of your attacks, and yet still not be a SM if you don't consider yourself one:



Likewise, you can use plenty of things other than just your sword (Cabaji relied on beyblades and fire tricks) yet still be a swordsman if you consider yourself one:



AKA, fighting style isn't super important. Swordsmen have vastly different fighting styles even between themselves. Only thing that matters is if they're canonically considered swordsman... either per their own words, or by the narrator/Oda.

Anything else is irrelevant headcanon.

Also, what's WSS, you ask?

"I can't lose, not even once, to anyone who calls himself a swordsman," vs a swordsman who constantly used beyblades and random tricks to fight.

Should be self-explanatory.
Being a swordsman isn't like being from a different race. Swordsmanship is just 1 fighting style out of many, anyone can use it and anyone can stop using if they want.

Someone can be a marksman, martial artist, boxer, kick boxer, sumo wrestler, devil fruit user, swordsman, axe user, knife user all at the same time.

Zolo can talk all he wants, what he wants just WGS, not WSM.

There is a difference between WGS and WSM.

WSM can be a swordsman, devil fruit user, all the other type of fighting style users that I mentioned above.

Zolo's ass will never be WSM if WSM says he is a swordsman. Zolo just have to out skill WSM in a swordsmanship contest, then Zolo's ass will be trashed by WSM's other fighting style, WSM's Haki and physical stats difference.

Its called ''WGS'' for a reason, not WSM.
 
#23
"he's objectively right to call himself not a swordsman though." He can call himself not a swordsman in the purist sense

"Just fighting with a sword doesn't make you a swordsman." In the purist sense, yes.

"King doesn't identify himself as swordsmen because he doesn't use swordsmanship as his primary fighting style." I said that already

"He doesn't follow the code and honour of being swordsman (something which zoro highlighted)" That can be part of being a purist, but it actually isn't intrinsically tied to being a swordsman in the purist sense, code and honour are subjective after all.

Therefore code and honour aren't factors that determine whether you're a swordsman or not. You can dedicate yourself to swordsmanship and not give a shit about code and honour.

"And, he doesn't strive to become better at swordsmanship skills" He's a middling swordsman, if he actually did strive maybe he could have beat Zoro.
 
#24

this video should end all swordsmanship related debates

that dude absolutely killed it

ya'll should watch it and stop with your agendas

edit: heads up: half of the video is about Zoro actually
I'm not watching a 48 minute video, and i'm already aware of Sword Duel rules..

This becomes incredibly clear and easy when you accept that AdCoC is not Swordsmanship..
 
#25
And a swordsman is someone who calls themselves a swordsman… that’s your conclusion right?

so what’s swordsmanship? In that King vs Zoro exchange, you left out the part where King EXPLAINS why he isn’t a swordsman. King says he doesn’t use sword style or sword techniques. That’s king’s explanation for why he isn’t a swordsman



But you don’t agree with King, right? You think Swordsman is an identity, like an LGBTQ identity. It’s just a thing people feel about themselves as opposed to a description of their fighting styles.



King says he doesn’t use Swordsmanship so that’s why he isn’t a swordsman… You don’t agree. You think Swordsmanship is irrelevant and King simply had to say “I’m a swordsman” and he would be one… Even if he continued not to use swordsmanship as he said he doesn’t…



Strange then when Mihawk’s bounty was being revealed, Oda thought it was wise to highlight how incredible Mihawk’s Swordsmanship is… Yet it doesn’t matter, right? The only think that matters is that Mihawk calls himself a swordsman. Him having “superior swordsmanship to Shanks” is meaningless statement since swordsmanship doesn’t matter in your entire analysis
Swordsmanship is a thing and it matters.

Just that you can be a swordsman even if you use plenty other things than just swordsmanship. Proven by Zoro's words to Cabaji.

Likewise, even if you employ some swordsmanship, you can still not be able swordsman. Proven by Zoro's words to King.

Ultimately if you consider yourself one/are considered one by Oda, then you're a swordsman.

And as Zoro said, he can't lose to anyone who considers themselves a swordsman. That's literally the WSS

Being a swordsman isn't like being from a different race. Swordsmanship is just 1 fighting style out of many, anyone can use it and anyone can stop using if they want.

Someone can be a marksman, martial artist, boxer, kick boxer, sumo wrestler, devil fruit user, swordsman, axe user, knife user all at the same time.

Zolo can talk all he wants, what he wants just WGS, not WSM.

There is a difference between WGS and WSM.

WSM can be a swordsman, devil fruit user, all the other type of fighting style users that I mentioned above.

Zolo's ass will never be WSM if WSM says he is a swordsman. Zolo just have to out skill WSM in a swordsmanship contest, then Zolo's ass will be trashed by WSM's other fighting style, WSM's Haki and physical stats difference.

Its called ''WGS'' for a reason, not WSM.
WSS and he already clarified what it means.

Being a Swordsman is an identity. It's not just about using Swordsmanship to varying degrees. You can use some swordsmanship and still not be a swordsman if you don't consider yourself one/aren't considered one by Oda.

But if you ARE a swordsman per Oda/ yourself? Zoro can't lose to you. Other elements are irrelevant.

It's very simple and pure canon. Albeit I also know there is no way to ever convince you as it's your primary agenda, so that's that. You can agree to disagree.
 
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#26
This guy explained it so even Zoro fans can understand. :kata:
Post automatically merged:

I'm not watching a 48 minute video, and i'm already aware of Sword Duel rules..

This becomes incredibly clear and easy when you accept that AdCoC is not Swordsmanship..
You would have watched it if you were a real Zoro fan.
 
#28
King said 2 things..

- You don't need a style or a form to '' fight ''.. Swordsmanship wasn't referred to there..

- He mentions later that he '' loves '' Katana, and that he will give a '' Sword Duel '' to Zoro..
So what is swordsmanship then?
And as Zoro said, he can't lose to anyone who considers themselves a swordsman. That's literally the WSS
so what does Oda mean when he says Mihawk’s swordsmanship is superior to Shanks?

by this I’m asking both WHAT does this mean in the story and also WHY did Oda bother mentioning this seemingly useless fact about Mihawk
King doesn't identify himself as swordsmen because he doesn't use swordsmanship as his primary fighting style.
so… is Shanks a swordsman?
 
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Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#31
So what is swordsmanship then?

so what does Oda mean when he says Mihawk’s swordsmanship is superior to Shanks?

by this I’m asking both WHAT does this mean in the story and also WHY did Oda bother mentioning this seemingly useless fact about Mihawk

so… is Shanks a swordsman?
As of now what we have seen - then yes shanks is a swordsman.

What I am saying is just welding a sword and using it doesn't make one a swordsman in traditional one piece sense

One has to live by it....one should have it as it's primary fighting style
 
#33
So what is swordsmanship then?
Haven't we been harping too much on Swordsmanship..

What seems to matter is Sword Skill, '' Kengi '', Cabaji, Mihawk's bounty poster, Rocks, Brook, they all mention Sword Skill..

I'm not saying Swordsmanship doesn't matter, since cutting everything and nothing is a core rule of Swordsmanship, but..
 

Reborn

Throughout Heaven & Earth,I alone am d Honored One
#34
Haven't we been harping too much on Swordsmanship..

What seems to matter is Sword Skill, '' Kengi '', Cabaji, Mihawk's bounty poster, Rocks, Brook, they all mention Sword Skill..

I'm not saying Swordsmanship doesn't matter, since cutting everything and nothing is a core rule of Swordsmanship, but..
What's the difference between them?
 
#38
"You never call yourself a swordsman" that line is supermisundertood by the fandom that was zoro making a point that if it what it takes to win he will even throw swordmanship
+King never gave him an answer confirming or denying
The answer King gave was in 1032 when he said he enjoy good swords duels so that confirmed him as a swordsman
 
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