Chapter Discussion What are you thinking of Luffy vs Kaido fight?

[Blackbeard]

Repetitive "not touching" CoC clashes and all these black lightnings made the fight feel lifeless. Oda turned Kaido's entire elemental kit useless restricting him to literally nothing but swinging his mace, not even punching or kicking. You will see that even Oda's drawing will get better when the fight comes to Luffy's awakening vs Kaido's.

Haki is really a cancer for fights.

 

[Noctis]

Luffy has the least plot armor, he's the only one in Wano so far with actual defeats while everyone getting PU left and right without any prior training or information

 

[Steven]

Repetitive "not touching" CoC clashes and all these black lightnings made the fight feel lifeless. Oda turned Kaido's entire elemental kit useless restricting him to literally nothing but swinging his mace, not even punching or kicking. You will see that even Oda's drawing will get better when the fight comes to Luffy's awakening vs Kaido's.

Haki is really a cancer for fights.

Haki in general is a mess

Its the answer for all problems in this manga

 

[Noctis]

Haki in general is a mess

Its the answer for all problems in this manga

Since Haki introduction devil fruits only seems like some cool powerups rather than some real advantage, haki could have been restricted or limited to some extent

 

[RayanOO]

Luffy has the least plot armor, he's the only in Wano so far with actual defeats while everyone getting PU left and right without any prior training or information

Sanji PU had some build up (even if we don't really like it, same for Nami, i hate Zeus PU but we could see it coming).

And Luffy has 2 PU during Wano, AdCOA and AdCOC.

Luffy defeats don't feel real at all. (except the first in Kuri)

The real problem is that : And luffy being KO only one minute at best

Etc etc etc

Luffy tanking insane hits each time in base is becoming so lame

 

[TheSufferingGob]

Luffy has the least plot armor, he's the only one in Wano so far with actual defeats while everyone getting PU left and right without any prior training or information

Oh the defeats that literally ment nothing cause he suffered no repercussions.

 

[WesMidnight]

Repetitive "not touching" CoC clashes and all these black lightnings made the fight feel lifeless. Oda turned Kaido's entire elemental kit useless restricting him to literally nothing but swinging his mace, not even punching or kicking. You will see that even Oda's drawing will get better when the fight comes to Luffy's awakening vs Kaido's.

Haki is really a cancer for fights.

He's used his breath and air slashes, lightning doesn't work on Luffy.
Of course his club will be more powerful than his other attacks, it's like complaining about Zoro using swords.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I agree with the sentiment that it's a bit of a power jump.
If Oda didn't make Kaido oneshot Luffy back in act 1, people would have complained less.

Although I have to say, it was the same thing that happened in Gintama. Gintoki lost because he was raging against Jirocho, but won later in the arc.

Readers should be more observant of Luffy's mental state during that match, but Oda's at fault too. If only he made it more clear.

I thought it was clear as fuck. He'll I'm pretty sure I was the only one with clarity back then.

 

[TheSufferingGob]

Repetitive "not touching" CoC clashes and all these black lightnings made the fight feel lifeless. Oda turned Kaido's entire elemental kit useless restricting him to literally nothing but swinging his mace, not even punching or kicking. You will see that even Oda's drawing will get better when the fight comes to Luffy's awakening vs Kaido's.

Haki is really a cancer for fights.

I think the no touching is fine and in scenes like the one where they headbutted its visually interesting. I agree that it sucks that his elemental attacks aren't the focus but he does mix it in atleast and the drunken master mode breathed some life into the fight for me.

 

[Noctis]

Sanji PU had some build up (even if we don't really like it, same for Nami, i hate Zeus PU but we could see it coming).

And Luffy has 2 PU during Wano, AdCOA and AdCOC.

Luffy defeats don't feel real at all. (except the first in Kuri)

The real problem is that : And luffy being KO only one minute at best

Etc etc etc

Luffy tanking insane hits each time in base is becoming so lame

Ad CoA was introduced before time-skip by Rayleigh so, it was obvious Luffy will eventually going to learn that and he was legit trained by a pro to able to do that plus his natural gift to able to adapt to new power ups

Oda hyped Luffy CoC and said it's strongest of his all Hakis, I don't think Oda would hype "fodder control" ability this much, plus the sign if it was always there. Luffy simply applied his CoA method to his CoC and he got CoC coating and that's how probably all the top tiers got their CoC coating and didn't went through some highly intolerable training for decades to achieve it.

So if we are talking about making sense then the argument pretty much ends here, even more when Zoro who has no prior knowledge of CoC was able to use that coating that took Luffy so much beating to learn.

Again before he learned ad CoC Luffy was very much vulnerable to Kaido direct hits and only shown to tolerate them when he did learn ad CoC. It means ad CoC can be used for both offense and defense

Also it's kind of unfair to mention Sanji, since it was as much as random as Zoro ad CoC and if your reason is because it make sense due to previous information then why you must go against Luffy who is power up also make sense due to previous information

 

[Ravagerblade]

Same people who say Luffy's power up and victory won't feel earned are the same people who say it makes sense Zoro unlocking AdvCoC when he's never even developed normal CoC

Double standards.

 

[RayanOO]

Ad CoA was introduced before time-skip by Rayleigh so, it was obvious Luffy will eventually going to learn that and he was legit trained by a pro to able to do that plus his natural gift to able to adapt to new power ups

Oda hyped Luffy CoC and said it's strongest of his all Hakis, I don't think Oda would hype "fodder control" ability this much, plus the sign if it was always there. Luffy simply applied his CoA method to his CoC and he gotta CoC coating and that's how probably all the top tiers got their CoC coating and didn't went through some highly intolerable training for decades to achieve it.

I don't mind Luffy having an upgraded form of COC, that is not my problem.

The real problem is luffy is tanking hits wayy too much, in the panel i posted you can see Luffy tanking hits that KO him easily before. Even Oden was KO by Kaido club. Here Luffy is tanking clubs after club hits on the head. It's too much. Luffy barely feels any real consequences after being hit. That erase all the tension. I don't feel at all that Luffy is in danger during that fight at all.

Also it's kind of unfair to mention Sanji, since it was as much as random as Zoro ad CoC and if your reason is because it make sense due to previous information then what against Luffy who is power up also make sense due to previous information

Sanji PU being as random as Zoro's one ?

We have all WCI arc to learn about Germa tech, exos, DNA manipulation, Sora drug, the fact that Judge experimentations worked on Sanji but the drug blocked it etc, then we had the RS during Wano, Sanji feeling weird after wearing it 2/3 times, then him slowly awakening his exos and then him using it to power up and handle better fire.
I think Sanji PU was the best explained from all the other SH PU in Wano.

I don't say i like that but at least it didn't come from nowhere.

 

[Necrohol]

AMAZING

 

[TheSufferingGob]

I don't mind Luffy having an upgraded form of COC, that is not my problem.

The real problem is luffy is tanking hits wayy too much, in the panel i posted you can see Luffy tanking hits that KO him easily before. Even Oden was KO by Kaido club. Here Luffy is tanking clubs after club hits on the head. It's too much. Luffy barely feels any real consequences after being hit. That erase all the tension. I don't feel at all that Luffy is in danger during that fight at all.


Sanji PU being as random as Zoro's one ?

We have all WCI arc to learn about Germa tech, exos, DNA manipulation, Sora drug, the fact that Judge experimentations worked on Sanji but the drug blocked it etc, then we had the RS during Wano, Sanji feeling weird after wearing it 2/3 times, then him slowly awakening his exos and then him using it to power up and handle better fire.
I think Sanji PU was the best explained from all the other SH PU in Wano.

I don't say i like that but at least it didn't come from nowhere.

I agree sanji's is the best explained but if Asura is CoC I think zoro's is a close second

Post automatically merged: Jan 17, 2022

I'm praying that rereading wano all at once is better cause weekly reading can sometimes ruin it. I'm enjoying it as is but some stuff as we've mentioned feel wonky

 

[uyuu]

The best way I can see Oda making that make sense is if he confirms Asura is CoC. Cause then maybe he was subconsciously using it which made it easier to use.

Asura made illusions while CoC knocked fodders, making black lightning and no-touch zone, so really hard to find similarities to put them together imo. Aside from 2 year being shortened into one day, the other fatal mistake Oda did tho, is making Zoro "wills" his just-awoken CoC to become CoC Coating just by going all out, contradicting how CoC Coating itself works since its a technique.

I mean whats stopping Oda from making CoA also unique and so powerful, even if Kaidou had hyped CoC for very strongest? If Zoro had learned breath of all things from Koushirou, which translates into CoA, Oda can always make BM surprised at Zoro's Asura, "That boy construct a Demonic Presence entirely from layers and cocoons of Armament...?! Have i EVEN HEARD of ANYONE capable doing that IN THE ENTIRE WORLD..? Just how sharp of a haki sword will he...OH...i know one BASTARD..with the EYES like those of a HAWK..." i mean it becomes more unique that way right? For M3 to have their own greatness? Luffy a CoC King, Zoro a CoA Demon, Sanji as a...something...

Zoro is really badass the entire fight and PU tho, cant say the same for Sanji. He get the worst fighting depiction, panelling out of Monster Trio lol even his PU was portrayed half-assedly.

 

[Blackbeard]

He's used his breath and air slashes, lightning doesn't work on Luffy.
Of course his club will be more powerful than his other attacks, it's like complaining about Zoro using swords.

What does Zoro have beside his weapons? Mythical dragon powers?

 

[TheSufferingGob]

Asura made illusions while CoC knocked fodders, making black lightning and no-touch zone, so really hard to find similarities to put them together imo. Aside from 2 year being shortened into one day, the other fatal mistake Oda did tho, is making Zoro "wills" his just-awoken CoC to become CoC Coating just by going all out, contradicting how CoC Coating itself works since its a technique.

I mean whats stopping Oda from making CoA also unique and so powerful, even if Kaidou had hyped CoC for very strongest? If Zoro had learned breath of all things from Koushirou, which translates into CoA, Oda can always make BM surprised at Zoro's Asura, "That boy construct a Demonic Presence entirely from layers and cocoons of Armament...?! Have i EVEN HEARD of ANYONE capable doing that IN THE ENTIRE WORLD..? Just how sharp of a haki sword will he...OH...i know one BASTARD..with the EYES like those of a HAWK..." i mean it becomes more unique that way right? For M3 to have their own greatness? Luffy a CoC King, Zoro a CoA Demon, Sanji as a...something...

Zoro is really badass the entire fight and PU tho, cant say the same for Sanji. He get the worst fighting depiction, panelling out of Monster Trio lol even his PU was portrayed half-assedly.

I dont care what is the logic behind Asura I just want an explanation. T_T

Like oda is actively being an asshole with it

 

[uyuu]

I dont care what is the logic behind Asura I just want an explanation. T_T

Like oda is actively being an asshole with it

I think its not the case lol. Its easy for me to find an alternative storytelling route since i'm not the one creating the foundation of entire lore and also drawing weekly for tens of years non-stop. I think Oda is just so tired that he didnt manage to tie up loose ends. I hope Oda retcons this again tho (Mihawk gonna say to Zoro in the next arc"do you know why youre able to do CoC Coating without anyone telling you? Because i've known Koushirou's ways of thinking. He taught you Sunacchi, its one of Flow Principle, how to infuse CoA in your sword. While i trained you in timeskip and insert subliminal messages, a seed of CoC Coating that is absorbed within your consciousness, so that when youre channeling your will to the Max with Asura, the CoC seed will completely merge with you) etc etc just insert some BS CoC physiology here lol

 

[Herrera95]

This is why Zorotards get bullied

Luffy vs Kaido has the potential to be the best fight in the series btw, and Shuron Hakke was a creative and perfectly in-character way of expanding Kaido's skillset

Same thing was said about Luffy vs Katakuri and had a shit ending.

 

[Finalbeta]

Oda is just the biggest Luffy stan in the world

Kaido can KO him 1000 times and the fight would still not over

Doesn't that occur with many MCs around the world of manga