Controversial What bothers you about this flashback?

[HerreraIsBack]

They were not. They were pirates. Pirates are all rivals on the seas.

No they are not. Oda made up a rivalry between Supernovas and Worst Generation because they supposedly all want to be Pirate King, of course excluding Zoro and Killer. No one sees Law as rival of anyone or anything because he doesn't want such thing. And little by little basically all of them stopped being rivals for different reasons. Even Kid because he is a joke power wise.

Mihawk and Shanks are no longer rivals because Mihawk refuses to fight a handcap swordsman.

Nothing connects Roger with Xebec to be rivals. And again Garp is only a "rival" because Oda made him unexplicable in love with Roger. Is not like Garp wants to beat and capture every pirate or the biggest names. He only has eyes for Roger. Which is ridiculous.

Flashback always gave contextual explanation before the actual dramatic content, what do you mean ?

DO you really think that what happens in God Valley at the moment is not important for the story of Loki ?

I'm not surprised you also don't know a thing about One Piece. Every One Piece flashback is about the person "telling" the story. That's why we don't know about Nami "2nd" backstory yet. That's why we just learned about Sanji's "2nd" backstory in Whole Cake Island.

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

The flashback was too long

 

[Logiko]

No they are not. Oda made up a rivalry between Supernovas and Worst Generation because they supposedly all want to be Pirate King, of course excluding Zoro and Killer.

Yeah, but not only. Also because they are all pirate. It's a pirate story. Let's not forget that.

No one sees Law as rival of anyone or anything because he doesn't want such thing.

And yet Law is narrativetly a Rival anyway.

Mihawk and Shanks are no longer rivals because Mihawk refuses to fight a handcap swordsman.

They are still Rivals nonetheless. You do not change a dynamic just because there is no more fight mate.

Nothing connects Roger with Xebec to be rivals.

Yes there is : Piracy. And in this case, the fact that Roger blames Rocks for letting the Marine get Shakky and the fact that he thinks he wants Shakky for himself. This is a bigger Rivarly than anything between the worstgeneration lol.

Even if in this case, it's quite unilateral.

Oda made him unexplicable in love with Roger. Is not like Garp

Unexplicable ?
Dude... Roger must have crossed garp just like Luffy did with Smoker and since then, they are buttheads to eachothers, there is nothing unexplicable about that.

I'm not surprised you also don't know a thing about One Piece. Every One Piece flashback is about the person "telling" the story.

That's not how it work sorry mate. And you won't explain me how the narration works in One Piece your are 20 years too late for that.

If you think you have a hard time with me in Politics, you don't wanna see me when I talk about Storytelling, you are not ready. And this time, I won't take the time to explain.

There is usually no one "telling" the flashbacks in One Piece. Flashback come from the mind of the character. Usually the one who is either the center, or close to the center (for ex, in Jinbe's flashback, Fisher Tiger and Otohime are the main characters, not Jinbe himself).

Furthermore, the flashback are often contextual first. Meaning that they can also focus on other character to develop the story and the narrative weight of the impact of the situation on said character. This is what happens for example with Chopper when the Story shift on the point of view of Hiluluk or Oden, when the point of view shift on Orochi.

That's why we just learned about Sanji's "2nd" backstory in Whole Cake Island.

Nah, that's not why.

The reason why we get a second backstory for Sanji is because the thematics were different and the character of Sanji had to evolve. And we don't know if Nami needs a backstory yet. There are just theories. The only thing we know is that she has a form of super human sense about the weither, that's all. It doesn't necessarily needs to be explained.

The flashback was too long

I can understand that.

But the flash back currently holds in around 120 to 125 pages (i might have missed a few and I counted double on double pages)

For comparison, this is just the lengh of Luffy's and Robin's flashback. The longer being Oden's with 229 pages, which was amazing, just like this one.

 

[Dragon777]

One of the best FBs of the post TS by far, but It's not perfect (Shakky).

 

[Logiko]

but It's not perfect (Shakky).

Why ?

 

[HerreraIsBack]

Yeah, but not only. Also because they are all pirate. It's a pirate story. Let's not forget that.

That doesn't makes them automatically rivals. If that so Roger would be rival of Kuja pirates and it was never said anything about that.

And yet Law is narrativetly a Rival anyway.

They are still Rivals nonetheless. You do not change a dynamic just because there is no more fight mate.

Nope

Yes there is : Piracy. And in this case, the fact that Roger blames Rocks for letting the Marine get Shakky and the fact that he thinks he wants Shakky for himself. This is a bigger Rivarly than anything between the worstgeneration lol.

Even if in this case, it's quite unilateral.

Like I said you don't understand anything about One Piece. Roger knows Shakky likes Rayleigh. He got mad that she chose Xebec's island to "retire".

Unexplicable ?
Dude... Roger must have crossed garp just like Luffy did with Smoker and since then, they are buttheads to eachothers, there is nothing unexplicable about that.

Your sentence describe an unexplicable situation because we don't know when they first met. Therefore unexplicable.

Nah, that's not why.

The reason why we get a second backstory for Sanji is because the thematics were different and the character of Sanji had to evolve. And we don't know if Nami needs a backstory yet. There are just theories. The only thing we know is that she has a form of super human sense about the weither, that's all. It doesn't necessarily needs to be explained.

The reason we get a 2nd story is because Oda let it open for him to have a 2nd story. Just like Nami, not much focused on Nami like Sanji was but about her family by blood. Unlike Chopper that we get the full story of his life until the current time, or Robin, Usopp, Franky that was pretty much the same. I believe Brook and Jinbei also have an open backstory that Oda could create another one.

 

[Dragon777]

Why ?

I didn't like at all the idea and how It was done.

Shakky the idol was by far the worst thing in an otherwise very good (and still is) FB for me.

 

[Logiko]

That doesn't makes them automatically rivals. If that so Roger would be rival of Kuja pirates and it was never said anything about that.

Rivalry is a spectrum, it's not 1 and 0 again.
Rivarly can simply mean that two person are against each other or have a long lasting quarrel.

On the sea, Pirates are all rivals of eachothers. That's the way they fight that creates this relationships.

Nope

You can say no if you want, it doesn't change what the story says lol

Like I said you don't understand anything about One Piece. Roger knows Shakky likes Rayleigh. He got mad that she chose Xebec's island to "retire".

I never said that Roger wanted Shakky for himself. Like I said, you have a reading problem.

Roger his mad because he thinks Rocks is heading to get Shakky AND because he thinks he let her be taken:

Again,you won't teach me anything about storytelling or One Piece mate. You are not ready for that.

Your sentence describe an unexplicable situation because we don't know when they first met. Therefore unexplicable.

That's not what unexplicable means. The word you are seeking is "unexplained". And the fact that it was "unexplained" is not necessarily a bad thing.

We actually don't need to be explained shit (at least for the momnet) about the origin of the squabble between Roger and Garp, we can understand it without it.

At least some of us

he reason we get a 2nd story is because Oda let it open for him to have a 2nd story.

Yeah. This doesn't contadict what I said. To explore more thematics on a development of a character, we need to let the story open. That's what happen in any story. What is your point ?

(really, I do not recommend you to try to explain me storytelling, you do not understand what I know about the subject)

Just like Nami, not much focused on Nami

Yes. Or more technically, What oda did is left a clue with Nami. (an answered question, that doesn't necessarily contradict what we know of the story) > Her power.

What Oda did with Sanji were foreshadowings and a question that actually contradicted the story > The fact that he had to cross redline to be on eastblue.

Chopper that we get the full story of his life until the current time, or Robin, Usopp, Franky that was pretty much the same

Do not think that Oda can't recreate a flashback for Chopper mate. There is enough material for at least alittle one.

I didn't like at all the idea and how It was done.
.

Why ?

 

[HerreraIsBack]

Rivalry is a spectrum, it's not 1 and 0 again.
Rivarly can simply mean that two person are against each other or have a long lasting quarrel.

On the sea, Pirates are all rivals of eachothers. That's the way they fight that creates this relationships.

That's a false assumption. There is no reason for all to be rival if they don't even want the same shit.

Kuro for example just wanted to chill at Syrup after getting his hands in Kaya's fortune. He wasn't a rival of Luffy.

I agree rivalry is a spectrum and not 1 or 0. Zoro and Sanji are rivals despite being crewmates/friends. Brogy and Dorry are similar but their rivalry is much more intensified. Then there is Yonko rivalry that is much deadlier. Rocks and Roger have nothing like that.

You can say no if you want, it doesn't change what the story says lol

Yea. I believe manga forced Law into a rival at the end of Wano. But they never said Shanks and Mihawk remains rivals.

I never said that Roger wanted Shakky for himself. Like I said, you have a reading problem.

Roger his mad because he thinks Rocks is heading to get Shakky AND because he thinks he let her be taken:

Again,you won't teach me anything about storytelling or One Piece mate. You are not ready for that.

Again you don't know shit of what you talking.

Roger has no idea if Rocks is going or not to save Shakky. He knows he let her being taken, doesn't matter if it is on purpose or not it is his land so he is responsible for that.

That's not what unexplicable means. The word you are seeking is "unexplained". And the fact that it was "unexplained" is not necessarily a bad thing.

We actually don't need to be explained shit (at least for the momnet) about the origin of the squabble between Roger and Garp, we can understand it without it.

At least some of us

Yea right now it is unexplained but it will be pretty much unexplicable as well. Garp's character is slowly looking worse and worse. Unless he has connections with SWORD he is doomed becase the only relevant thing he did was participate at God Valley incident.

And stop talking about understanding like you know shit better than others. You don't.

Yeah. This doesn't contadict what I said. To explore more thematics on a development of a character, we need to let the story open. That's what happen in any story. What is your point ?

(really, I do not recommend you to try to explain me storytelling, you do not understand what I know about the subject)

Yea it does. You said that Sanji needed to evolve. Bullshit specially because he didn't evolved a shit. It was a plot that came out of nowhere like Nika. If Oda didn't let Sanji's first backstory open then he would have to choose someone like Nami to do the plot.

Do not think that Oda can't recreate a flashback for Chopper mate. There is enough material for at least alittle one.

You mean retcon? Sure. Oda is alwaysing fucking up his own story. But in terms of good writting there isn't room for it.

 

[Senfret]

Every part of this flashback was cool, I hope Shakky frees herself and does something else than being a trophy, She was a pirate empress, she should be able to kill a couple of CDs and steal some trophies

 

[Logiko]

That's a false assumption. There is no reason for all to be rival if they don't even want the same shit.

Rivalry is not necessarily about one common goal, it can also be about various other subjects.

Kuro for example just wanted to chill at Syrup after getting his hands in Kaya's fortune. He wasn't a rival of Luffy.

Indeed. But Kuro is a special case, he stopped being a pirate. That condition alone deleted his basic rival status as a pirate.

Rocks and Roger have nothing like that.

Yes, they have. It's literally what this picture is implying. That's visual storytelling mate. (on top of all other informations)

There is history and rivalry between these two. They will butthead against each other any time they can, it's pirate rivalry, just like you can see in Pirate of the Carribbean. It's old school stuff.

Yea. I believe manga forced Law into a rival at the end of Wano. But they never said Shanks and Mihawk remains rivals.

It is implied through their relationship. The way they talk, the way they percieve eachothers, the conflict that arise when they see one another.

This rivarly is literally reflected in the fanbase in the Shanks/mihawk debate. Such powerscaling debate do not arrive for no reason, but because the story implies a Rivarly that is accaparated by fan. Oda knows what he is doing.

Roger has no idea if Rocks is going or not to save Shakky. He knows he let her being taken, doesn't matter if it is on purpose or not it is his land so he is responsible for that.

Yeah, that's what I implied mate. Read correctly.

Roger doesn't know why Rocks is going to God's Valley and his first logical thought is "he is making a move, we won't let him get there first". > This implies that Roger thinks Rocks is there for the same reason and ended up wanting to attack the celestial dragon, when in reality, he wants to save his son.

This is the entire reason why we got this panel :

Roger does not understand why Rocks is there in the first place.

The point is. They are still Rivals. But Roger doesn't have all the info.

Yea right now it is unexplained but it will be pretty much unexplicable as well.

Why ? You make no sense. it's very easy to explain. A single page is enough. And this page is not even needed, you can't understand the parrallel between Smoker and Luffy and Roger and Garp yourself ?

Garp's character is slowly looking worse and worse.

For what reason ? at this point, you guys are just saying random hatefull stuff just to look like you understand what makes a good character or not

It's if I said... from nowhere "well... Luffy is eating meat now... his character is slowly looking worse and worse". This is the same level of nonsense lol

And stop talking about understanding like you know shit better than others. You don't.

I know better about story that you do. And politics also. This is a simple probability.

You are not likely to have the same education on One Piece or Storytelling that I have. I highly doubt about that. So do not try to lecture me about the story like you usually do.

Really, you will never find an opened hear.

Yea it does. You said that Sanji needed to evolve. Bullshit specially because he didn't evolved a shit.

And that's why I understand the story. I you don't. I won't take the time to explained it to you. Others have already done it beautiful.

Have fun:

You mean retcon?

That's not what retcon are. I'm talking about a real new backstory.

Either on the two year timeskip or even after his pledge to be a doctor like Hiluluk. Oda is skilled enough to pull this off.

But in terms of good writting there isn't room for it.

You have no imagination. Really.

 

[Dragon777]

Why ?

Because I hated the hole Idol plot line and overall concept, applied to pirates and Xebec in particular.
On of the worst ideas in an a long while.

I would have liked much more a Ray-Shakky specific focus, so the reason for the Roger pirates to go there would have been because of Ray.

At least It got better because Xebec's reason wasn't simping Shakky, but saving his own family. Which was a little random, but It was addressed in the story how all this Isn't a big coincidence but somehow the work of fate.