Controversial Where the celestial dragons always this vile?

[Bisoromi Bear]

I like to think that the OG ones were somehow good intentioned, and got corrupted over time but I fear that Oda’s allergy to nuances and low opinion of his reader’s intelligence will take over again, turning this potential interesting development into the usual cheesy, iperbolic and lazy caricature.

If everything we've seen so far of the different factions, here might be a chance both the original 20 kings as well as Joyboy's side had some good and bad intentions. Likely

 

[Kung-Fu Dugong]

Well, in contemporary times we had Mjosgard who helped out the merfolk in Mary Geoise and was genuinely honest (although he needed to "receive a lesson" from Otohime to change his heart). Not so long ago, we had Homing who was a good guy despite having no contact with the "lower world". So, it's well known that there are at least some dissidents from time to time, although Rosward hints that they're really rare (chapter #908).

It seems that most CDs are ignorant about the world and its history (in chapter #1114, Shalria is shown to be unfamiliar even with the term "Void Century"). IMO, a lot of them could've a change of heart if they had contact with Otohime-like characters.

 

[grey matter]

Vegapunk mentioned it wasn't a battle of good and evil. If Oda doesn't want to go super cartoonish, that makes sense too. It would take legitimate reasons to unite 20 kingdoms against a hegemony.

Likely, a lot of grey was involved in the original conflict.

But centuries of unchallenged dominance made their descendants blind with power, and we have the clowns we have in the story currently. Even though Oda did make them too cartoonish and 1D.

As for Gorosei. Clearly, during the intro, they were meant to be more diplomatic, nuanced characters; even though they were obviously meant to be antagonistic.
More of my thoughts regarding Gorosei:

I actually liked the contrast gorosei had with the standard CD, who were spoiled scumbags, while they had a nuanced, wise king type energy back in the days. Even during their intro in Ohara, while stern, they also had a more diplomatic side. They even tried to give an out for the researchers, and preferred evacuating the civilians.
They were repeatedly shown preferring stability and minimizing casualties. Even when Imu asked them to test mother flame on Lulucia, they would've rather used it on sea, and expressed concern towards civilian casualties, before being bullied into submission by Imu.

Oda had written Gorosei with more nuance than fodder CDs, as he usually do for many of his villains (Arlong, Doflamingo, Kaido, Moria). While they are to be seen as bad guys, there is more to them than meets the eyes.
I had initially speculated Gorosei to be 5 amongst the OG 20 kings.

But in Egghead, Oda threw it all out of the window. Made them straight up behave similar to trash like Charlos. Had Saturn kill marines and even some vice admirals. Made them effectively slaves of Imu, who are the source of their immortality.

 

[Johnny B. Decent]

Clearly you're lacking imagination.

I'm not saying that's what Oda is going for 100%, but if he wants to, there are plenty of ways to make it make sense.

The Celestial Dragons are the descendants of kings, though. Like we know the Donquixote Family ruled Dressrosa.

 

[soupongo]

The Donquixote family enslaved the Tontattas. Remember that Lolda is writing this manga for 12 year old boys. The CDs have always been ridiculously evil

Slavery of countries happened irl and was pretty normal for a long time. Hunting games are a goofy plot point that Oda doesn´t even fully commit to outside of God Valley

 

[eamonpro]

Slavery of countries happened irl and was pretty normal for a long time. Hunting games are a goofy plot point that Oda doesn´t even fully commit to outside of God Valley

Do you think oda wrote the tontatta slavery as normal and not an insane evil

 

[Halyup]

Time for another question to get the brain flowing

Do you think Celestial Dragons have always been the way they are, or did 800 years of privilege and zero accountability corrupt them into the celestials they are today?

Nope
coz the first 20 kings are not villains based on vegapunk statement

Post automatically merged: Friday at 10:16 PM

Slavery in one peice existed even before the void century and in times of nika so yes

Slavery existed in the 1st world

 

[Shivercalero]

I think the only evil ones were the Neronas (and possibly the Figrlands) and they corrupted the rest with their supermacist crap. The rest is 800 years of history.

 

[moreha9685]

The Celestial Dragons are the descendants of kings, though. Like we know the Donquixote Family ruled Dressrosa.

I'm saying that the slaves of the First World, those liberated by Nika, are the forefathers of the OG 20 who rebelled against the AK in the Second World, and who themselves are the forefathers of the CDs of the Third World.

 

[Kiiro]

They werent.

Dressrosa (before doffy) and Alabasta are proof. They are "healthy " kingdoms...


They seemed to have carried how their ancestors ruled...

It was winnimg the war and the god title that made them evil, the same reason they are usually not in god shape.

They have education to make them like that, for example the D clan, they teach them to hate them

 

[MonochromeYoru]

They werent.

Dressrosa (before doffy) and Alabasta are proof. They are "healthy " kingdoms...


They seemed to have carried how their ancestors ruled...

It was winnimg the war and the god title that made them evil, the same reason they are usually not in god shape.

They have education to make them like that, for example the D clan, they teach them to hate them

Dressrosa wasn't ruled by Donquixote family tho?

After the war, they fucked off to marie joa and the people elected new king from riku family. Same for all the 20 family original islands supposedly.

And Alabaster never went to marie joa. So they are supposed to be the good guys of the 20.



I'd say they were always evil. But not this level. This is centuries of inbreeding and god complex manifest

 

[Kiiro]

Dressrosa wasn't ruled by Donquixote family tho?

After the war, they fucked off to marie joa and the people elected new king from riku family. Same for all the 20 family original islands supposedly.

And Alabaster never went to marie joa. So they are supposed to be the good guys of the 20.



I'd say they were always evil. But not this level. This is centuries of inbreeding and god complex manifest

Yes, thats why i included Drresrossa and said that the new rulers followed how they used to do it.... Imo it wasnt bad. But pire theories

 

[eamonpro]

Yes, thats why i included Drresrossa and said that the new rulers followed how they used to do it.... Imo it wasnt bad. But pire theories

Didn’t the old dressrosa rulers enslave the tontatta, and king riku and his family have for centuries made sure that wouldn’t happen

 

[Kiiro]

Didn’t the old dressrosa rulers enslave the tontatta, and king riku and his family have for centuries made sure that wouldn’t happen

Dont remember, did they? And even if they did... the world has always been racist.

 

[eamonpro]

Dont remember, did they? And even if they did... the world has always been racist.

And at least in odas view, it’s clear the racists have always been wrong.

 

[Halyup]

Dressrosa wasn't ruled by Donquixote family tho?

After the war, they fucked off to marie joa and the people elected new king from riku family. Same for all the 20 family original islands supposedly.

And Alabaster never went to marie joa. So they are supposed to be the good guys of the 20.



I'd say they were always evil. But not this level. This is centuries of inbreeding and god complex manifest

Lily would not ally with the other kings if theyre pure evil