Versus Battle Which of the Big 3 Fandoms is the most toxic and most delusional?
- Thread starter Light D Lamperouge
- Start date
OP fandom became so toxic ever since both naruto and bleach ended
Especially when toxic Naruto fanboys started reading OP and ruined everything
Most still convince themselves this
Making stupid baits on twitter to claim OP has more iconic moments, Villains, transformations and attacks than Naruto, bleach, DBZ,...
Especially when toxic Naruto fanboys started reading OP and ruined everything
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Most still convince themselves this
Making stupid baits on twitter to claim OP has more iconic moments, Villains, transformations and attacks than Naruto, bleach, DBZ,...
This. But the migration was already apparent before Naruto ended. One Piece was pretty calm and had one of the most chilled posters back in 2008 and prior~ (referring to my time in Narutoforums website).
Fast forward 2-3 years later... the manga gained even more popularity and other fans from other competing mangas migrated over. You could tell that the topic discussions have become a steaming pile of excrement by these same shitty posters who came over from the Naruto and Bleach avenues (Narutoforums).
That's not to say that OP fandom was perfect and good back in the day. Some of them were pretty bad too, just not on the same level as the two other mangas I mentioned earlier. And yes, there are some great Naruto and Bleach fans who migrated over to One Piece as well.
Fast forward 2-3 years later... the manga gained even more popularity and other fans from other competing mangas migrated over. You could tell that the topic discussions have become a steaming pile of excrement by these same shitty posters who came over from the Naruto and Bleach avenues (Narutoforums).
That's not to say that OP fandom was perfect and good back in the day. Some of them were pretty bad too, just not on the same level as the two other mangas I mentioned earlier. And yes, there are some great Naruto and Bleach fans who migrated over to One Piece as well.
Gear 5 didn't explode because the first episode reused animation and for lack of a better term, spent most of it jerking itself off + doing Super Saiyan effects (which felt insecure). Not to mention G5 had already been spoiled to hell and back by the time it arrived.
Delusional for sure though, some talk about it like its the Bible 2.
Delusional for sure though, some talk about it like its the Bible 2.
We should compare this when all 3 were airing.
Back in the days it was Naruto fandom that's the most toxic as 90% is powerscaling 10% about Sakura and some shipping
Right now as the other 2 are over, One piece gain more and more audience, new readers coming from different backgrounds, power scaling becomes toxic more than ever..........
This is also something to do with our current generation I'd day, more idiots on internet, so many underage kids touching twitter and other social media, ppl having issues with gender etc, all kinds of ppl join the fandom. Toxicity at its peak.
Back in the days it was Naruto fandom that's the most toxic as 90% is powerscaling 10% about Sakura and some shipping
Right now as the other 2 are over, One piece gain more and more audience, new readers coming from different backgrounds, power scaling becomes toxic more than ever..........
This is also something to do with our current generation I'd day, more idiots on internet, so many underage kids touching twitter and other social media, ppl having issues with gender etc, all kinds of ppl join the fandom. Toxicity at its peak.
OP fans had been pretty obnoxious even before the Naruto migration especially during Dressrosa which was when I noticed that the fandom lost all tolerance for criticism, but things did get way worse after Kishimoto did this since it brought OP a lot more mainstream attention and a bunch of news articles started coming out talking about how Naruto "passed the torch" to One Piece.
Dragon Ball fans probably also contributed a lot of toxicity too since a lot of them started getting into One Piece after J Star Victory Vs and that one anime crossover between One Piece and Dragon Ball and another anime.
Dragon Ball fans probably also contributed a lot of toxicity too since a lot of them started getting into One Piece after J Star Victory Vs and that one anime crossover between One Piece and Dragon Ball and another anime.
This thread's just become a Naruto vs One Piece dickmeasuring contest.
The answer to both is Bleach. For one, they think it's actually a masterpiece rather than a highly generic and somewhat okay story.
Secondly, all they seem to do is character wank and/or shit on other stories and fandoms (ironic lol since that's what i'm doing now) - I distinctly remember OP getting a lot of hate from them around the G5 hype in the anime
The number of times i've had to explain that the Bleach Universe is powerscaled to small-city level with the nuance of annoying hax and not, and I quote "multi-universal" is nuts
The answer to both is Bleach. For one, they think it's actually a masterpiece rather than a highly generic and somewhat okay story.
Secondly, all they seem to do is character wank and/or shit on other stories and fandoms (ironic lol since that's what i'm doing now) - I distinctly remember OP getting a lot of hate from them around the G5 hype in the anime
The number of times i've had to explain that the Bleach Universe is powerscaled to small-city level with the nuance of annoying hax and not, and I quote "multi-universal" is nuts
I know what you mean. I once saw in CV, many years ago, a thread asking who wins Ywach vs Classic Beyonder. 
There was also Ywach and all the quincies vs Galactus and all his heralds lol. Like, bruh, any random Galactus herald solos HST lmaooo.
No wonder, IIRC, anime vs threads are banned in CV.
There was also Ywach and all the quincies vs Galactus and all his heralds lol. Like, bruh, any random Galactus herald solos HST lmaooo.
No wonder, IIRC, anime vs threads are banned in CV.
Saw someone do a UI Goku vs Yhwach thread on Reddit saying nobody could hurt anybody because Goku would avoid everything and Yhwach could too because of the nature of their powers. No mate, UI Goku is so fast that by the time A has even been activated, he's dead along with the entire BV being erased from existence from one punch. What's Yhwach even got in his locker that can hurt a guy with enough durability to trade blows with someone who can destroy multiple universes at once? It's completely NUTS! The delusion is crazy
Then they go and say it's actually good. No. Bleach is a stunning Manga (sometimes) from a visual perspective. But the character writing for pretty much anyone aside from Orihime or Uryu is 3/10 at best. The overall story too, again, maybe 3/10 for plot. These people are basically just there for powerscaling and nothing else. I've never even seen a Bleach fan talk about the character writing.
The reason SOME got upset around the G5 hype is because OP fans started calling out every other series about "who's more iconic". Comparing it to SSJ Goku, Hollow mask Ichigo, and Sage Mode Naruto. Not all Bleach fans shit on other series, it's just like how some OP fans shit on other series, difference being OP having a bigger fanbase.
Please do explain because this is nothing more than just downplay. If you genuinely think Bleachverse scales at small city level, then you're the one who's delusional for the 2nd part of this topic. Ulquiorra displaying feats bigger than city level, Yamamoto threatening the planet, Yhwach affecting the entire cosmology, and even the newest feat of Senjumaru which was verbatim stated to affect the 3 realms and was actually shown affecting them.
Are you saying the realms in Bleach are all small cities? If you do, please show me why you think that .
The "multi-universal" is dependent on how you scale the realms, if you think they're universe sized or if you think they're planets. It's not as far-fetched as you think it is. If they said shit like Outerversal, Low Complex Multiverse level, some bullshit like that, then that's pretty stupid. Just like the the Aizen 4D and Ichigo 5D bullshit.
Yeah, I've seen that person, and I think it's like two people who believe this. Classic Beyonder solos, DBZ, Bleach, OP, and Naruto combined.
Who is "they" and what are they saying exactly? That Yhwach is omnipotent or omniscient? It's clearly not true since we see him die in the manga twice.
This is wrong. When he first unlocked it, sure, but after he took the Soul King, he was able to not only see infinite futures, but affect them all at the same time. This was shown in the manga and will probably be shown in the anime as well when we get there.
He can prevent any future that he can see, so it's not a perfect ability since it doesn't work on character he doesn't see. Certain people have resistance to his Almighty like Uryu and Mimihagi. In a crossbattle, anyone who is acausal or has some sort of resistance would not be affected by the hax.
He does put in his own work, he chooses which future to prevent and prevents it. One of the reasons he lost was because he saw a future but didn't do anything to prevent it since he thought it was just a dream and not a vision/future he saw so he dismissed it.
I've seen plenty. I see more Bleach fans talk about character writing than powerscaling (even though recently, it's been a trending topic among the community).
The Madness of Ascendancy: A Character Analysis of Sosuke Aizen through the Lens of Satan - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine (gamespot.com)
Conceptually, Yhwach is an S tier character in my opinion. But the problem with his character lies in the fact that these complex ideas are not developed or fleshed out. I really hope Kubo will do Yhwach justice in the anime. : r/bleach (reddit.com)
Who, according to you, is the most well-written character in the entire series? : r/bleach (reddit.com)
Tosen is a great character (character analysis) : r/bleach (reddit.com)
These are just some discussions. If you actively avoid them, then sure, you won't be finding anything.
Please do explain because this is nothing more than just downplay. If you genuinely think Bleachverse scales at small city level, then you're the one who's delusional for the 2nd part of this topic. Ulquiorra displaying feats bigger than city level, Yamamoto threatening the planet, Yhwach affecting the entire cosmology, and even the newest feat of Senjumaru which was verbatim stated to affect the 3 realms and was actually shown affecting them.
Are you saying the realms in Bleach are all small cities? If you do, please show me why you think that .
The "multi-universal" is dependent on how you scale the realms, if you think they're universe sized or if you think they're planets. It's not as far-fetched as you think it is. If they said shit like Outerversal, Low Complex Multiverse level, some bullshit like that, then that's pretty stupid. Just like the the Aizen 4D and Ichigo 5D bullshit.
Yeah, I've seen that person, and I think it's like two people who believe this. Classic Beyonder solos, DBZ, Bleach, OP, and Naruto combined.
Who is "they" and what are they saying exactly? That Yhwach is omnipotent or omniscient? It's clearly not true since we see him die in the manga twice.
This is wrong. When he first unlocked it, sure, but after he took the Soul King, he was able to not only see infinite futures, but affect them all at the same time. This was shown in the manga and will probably be shown in the anime as well when we get there.
He can prevent any future that he can see, so it's not a perfect ability since it doesn't work on character he doesn't see. Certain people have resistance to his Almighty like Uryu and Mimihagi. In a crossbattle, anyone who is acausal or has some sort of resistance would not be affected by the hax.
He does put in his own work, he chooses which future to prevent and prevents it. One of the reasons he lost was because he saw a future but didn't do anything to prevent it since he thought it was just a dream and not a vision/future he saw so he dismissed it.
I've seen plenty. I see more Bleach fans talk about character writing than powerscaling (even though recently, it's been a trending topic among the community).
The Madness of Ascendancy: A Character Analysis of Sosuke Aizen through the Lens of Satan - Gen. Discussion - Comic Vine (gamespot.com)
Conceptually, Yhwach is an S tier character in my opinion. But the problem with his character lies in the fact that these complex ideas are not developed or fleshed out. I really hope Kubo will do Yhwach justice in the anime. : r/bleach (reddit.com)
Who, according to you, is the most well-written character in the entire series? : r/bleach (reddit.com)
Tosen is a great character (character analysis) : r/bleach (reddit.com)
These are just some discussions. If you actively avoid them, then sure, you won't be finding anything.
Agreed. I'd even argue that those verses can be helped out by verses like Instant Death, ToAru, and JJBA but still got negged just by Classic Beyonder existing a trillion layers above them tbh.
A little OOT, but I also honestly doubt Umineko characters can decisively beat him, although my impression is many in CV seem to believe this. In general, since Classic Beyonder is TOAA before TOAA, I think Classic Beyonder is written to be somewhat like Azathoth in Cthulhu Mythos: Omnipotent and Omnipresent, but not Omniscient.
A little OOT, but I also honestly doubt Umineko characters can decisively beat him, although my impression is many in CV seem to believe this. In general, since Classic Beyonder is TOAA before TOAA, I think Classic Beyonder is written to be somewhat like Azathoth in Cthulhu Mythos: Omnipotent and Omnipresent, but not Omniscient.
Just proving my point
Bleach wankers are toxic, deluded and annoying
So yeah, as I was saying, Bleach fans are toxic. This triggered you. Like you're literally SEETHING.
When we powerscale by AOE, we have to use AOE feats. The greatest AOE feat of anyone is Final Getsuga Tensho Ichigo in his fight with Aizen. He cut a few mountains. That's the same as small city level. Show me an attack that had more physical power behind it, please.
I do find it funny when Bleach fans confuse a big explosion (like Ulquiorra's lances) with city level. Dude, Cities are KILOMETRES.
When did Yamamoto threaten the planet? Last I checked he threatened soul society, which uh, is a small city.
Senjumaru's newest feat is not canon. It's Anime-only. Now that you've brought this up I know exactly what I'm dealing with, and this just shows your total delusion.
Soul society is. And yes, there is nothing in Bleach aside SK himself (because his existence is what predicates the existence of the realms) that even comes close to destroying Hueco Mundo or the human world.
Let me put it this way: you realise that to even be a planetary threat, scaling to earth, you would need to be TRILLIONS of times more powerful than Ichigo, right? Like to destroy the planet you literally need explosions with forces of Newtons to a factor of 49. Destroying a mountain is just a few giga-tons of power, or a factor of 9. This means you'd literally have to cube the power another 40x over to even be a planetary threat. Nobody is that in Bleach.
No because the only way the realms are under threat is if one specific character dies, not by virtue of somebody's actual feats.
Our observable universe (which is likely a tiny part of the universe), which the Bleach human world resides in, is bigger than earth to a factor of over 90 billion zeros. That means you take earth cubed, then cube it, then cube it, then cube it... 90 billion times. That's just the mass. No dark matter. No energy. No space. No empty space between things etc. etc.
Show me a guy in Bleach punching or slashing that hard. Heck, give me all the Yhwach feats, everything. Do it. He's nothing compared to universal scales.
No, nobody is a universal threat, let alone multiversal.
Hence proving my point, Bleach fans are deluded.
Bleach fans I've had the misfortune of interacting with. But yes, he's not.
Actually if you're going to be anal, he could see a number of futures which was so large he didn't know his limitations. It doesn't mean it's infinite. Regardless, it changes nothing.
Okay, let me put it this way. He can do what he is capable of to prevent the futures, correct? So, he can use his Schrift, his quincy powers etc. lay traps (made of things accessible in the BV) etc. etc. - show me something that's going to harm a Universal threat. Baring in mind the numbers above.
So, Goku for instance, is trillions if not quintillions of times more powerful than at the start of DBZ, when he was a planetary threat and already far beyond the reaches of the BV in terms of power. He's been tanking galaxy busters and universe busters for fun for several arcs now. What's Yhwach actually capable of that even threatens him? What does he have that could even harm him? He's not Ichigo with a (fairly) normal human body. All Yhwach would see when encountering or fighting someone like that, or even just a planetary level threat, is endless deaths and defeats no matter what he tries.
I've never seen so many L takes either. But at least in some dark corners of the internet there's a handful.
So in conclusion:
You are triggered and deluded
You are proving my points perfectly and trying to turn this thread into a powerscaling discussion (and, without feats, somehow think because Yhwach can change futures through means of what he is limited to, he is unlimited - you said he's not god yourself. And then try and argue that he is without saying as much), which was one of my points. It's all you bleach wankers care for or care about - hurr durr x character vs x character, how many universes can Karin Kurosaki destroy when she sneezes??? 7? 9? 83? Who knows? All I know is some fucker out there will have a number above 0. And they'll be a part of the fanbase I'm talking about.
Bleach wankers are toxic, deluded and annoying
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So yeah, as I was saying, Bleach fans are toxic. This triggered you. Like you're literally SEETHING.
When we powerscale by AOE, we have to use AOE feats. The greatest AOE feat of anyone is Final Getsuga Tensho Ichigo in his fight with Aizen. He cut a few mountains. That's the same as small city level. Show me an attack that had more physical power behind it, please.
I do find it funny when Bleach fans confuse a big explosion (like Ulquiorra's lances) with city level. Dude, Cities are KILOMETRES.
When did Yamamoto threaten the planet? Last I checked he threatened soul society, which uh, is a small city.
Senjumaru's newest feat is not canon. It's Anime-only. Now that you've brought this up I know exactly what I'm dealing with, and this just shows your total delusion.
Soul society is. And yes, there is nothing in Bleach aside SK himself (because his existence is what predicates the existence of the realms) that even comes close to destroying Hueco Mundo or the human world.
Let me put it this way: you realise that to even be a planetary threat, scaling to earth, you would need to be TRILLIONS of times more powerful than Ichigo, right? Like to destroy the planet you literally need explosions with forces of Newtons to a factor of 49. Destroying a mountain is just a few giga-tons of power, or a factor of 9. This means you'd literally have to cube the power another 40x over to even be a planetary threat. Nobody is that in Bleach.
No because the only way the realms are under threat is if one specific character dies, not by virtue of somebody's actual feats.
Our observable universe (which is likely a tiny part of the universe), which the Bleach human world resides in, is bigger than earth to a factor of over 90 billion zeros. That means you take earth cubed, then cube it, then cube it, then cube it... 90 billion times. That's just the mass. No dark matter. No energy. No space. No empty space between things etc. etc.
Show me a guy in Bleach punching or slashing that hard. Heck, give me all the Yhwach feats, everything. Do it. He's nothing compared to universal scales.
No, nobody is a universal threat, let alone multiversal.
Hence proving my point, Bleach fans are deluded.
Bleach fans I've had the misfortune of interacting with. But yes, he's not.
Actually if you're going to be anal, he could see a number of futures which was so large he didn't know his limitations. It doesn't mean it's infinite. Regardless, it changes nothing.
Okay, let me put it this way. He can do what he is capable of to prevent the futures, correct? So, he can use his Schrift, his quincy powers etc. lay traps (made of things accessible in the BV) etc. etc. - show me something that's going to harm a Universal threat. Baring in mind the numbers above.
So, Goku for instance, is trillions if not quintillions of times more powerful than at the start of DBZ, when he was a planetary threat and already far beyond the reaches of the BV in terms of power. He's been tanking galaxy busters and universe busters for fun for several arcs now. What's Yhwach actually capable of that even threatens him? What does he have that could even harm him? He's not Ichigo with a (fairly) normal human body. All Yhwach would see when encountering or fighting someone like that, or even just a planetary level threat, is endless deaths and defeats no matter what he tries.
I've never seen so many L takes either. But at least in some dark corners of the internet there's a handful.
So in conclusion:
You are triggered and deluded
You are proving my points perfectly and trying to turn this thread into a powerscaling discussion (and, without feats, somehow think because Yhwach can change futures through means of what he is limited to, he is unlimited - you said he's not god yourself. And then try and argue that he is without saying as much), which was one of my points. It's all you bleach wankers care for or care about - hurr durr x character vs x character, how many universes can Karin Kurosaki destroy when she sneezes??? 7? 9? 83? Who knows? All I know is some fucker out there will have a number above 0. And they'll be a part of the fanbase I'm talking about.
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Every verse's wankers are deluded. My response doesn't prove your point. If anything it shows your delusion.
Seems like you're projecting. I don't think anything in my response indicates that I'm seething as you say.
You powerscale by AOE? I'm assuming you mean DC, but that's not the only way to powerscale, especially in verses where they can control and direct their output. That's why AP is a thing. Goku, the one character you love brining up hasn't destroyed any universe on screen at all. Nobody has except for Zeno and he did it through hax.
Depends on how big you think Las Noches is and some countries as just as small as cities. Regardless, even if he's just small city level there are character that far surpass him.
This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Yamamoto threatened the entire Soul Society, not only the Seireitei which is the city. Not the realm, but the planet.
The anime is the way Kubo wanted to do things but he was rushed to do limited time and health. Kubo works with the team extremely closely to add new content that wasn't there, working on storyboards, and having a massive say in the series
The anime is just updated canon. It's the way Kubo wanted TYBW to be, but couldn't at the time. It's the same thing as the manga but with added content.
Soul Society refers to the realm or planet, the Seireitei is the city you're talking about. There is the World of the Living (our universe), the Soul Society (a reflection of our universe), Hueco Mundo ( Another realm of similar size), and a bunch of others.
There is a context that makes a difference, but you can't seem to be able to read any context. Just assume a one fits all definition.
Let me put it this way: You realize that the reason why they aren't destroying the planet is because they control their output? Because of the narrative? You bring up Goku, but Goku's never destroyed a universe on screen at all. Why is he universal now?
The Soul King sustains the realms with his reiatsu, Yhwach, Aizen, and Ichigo all have the same amount of reiatsu and are candidates to be Soul King (Reiatsu isn't the only reason why they're candidates). Yhwach was merging the realms through his reiatsu which correlates with stats.
It's not that difficult to follow.
Our observable universe, which is the supposed to be the same as the World of the Living in Bleach doesn't need to be shown everywhere. Why would we see a shot of Saturn or Neptune when the story doesn't involve them?
Yhwach in the process of destroying the cosmology can be considered the feat you want. Whether you accept it or not is up to you.
Hence you're proving my point. OP fans are deluded. I don't know how one or two Bleach fans represent the entire community according to you.
No, it's infinite. And it does change a lot. That means he has insane perception.
What are you defining as a universal threat? You don't even seem to be consistent on what a universal character is.
According to you from what I understand, a universal character is someone who does big AOE and destroyed a universe. So where did Goku destroy a universe on screen?
In conclusion:
You're projecting.
You're proving my point of OP fans being deluded. I don't want to turn this thread into a powerscaling discussion, but you can make a new thread to discuss. I'm fine with ending it here.
I never tried arguing that he was god. Go back and read again. I've given weaknesses to his Almighty. If you want to insinuate that I'm wanking, at least be the one who provides the weakness in Yhwach's ability instead of misrepresenting it.
I don't know what you're on about with Karin sneezing universes? Are you off the meds? Calm down buddy, it's not that deep, don't pop a blood vessel.
Yeah Classic Beyond was basically TOAA before TOAA existed as a concept. I've heard that Umineko is a bit wanked, but also heard that it's also downplayed, so I dunno about that verse lol.
Some of the Beyonder art is so clean
Seems like you're projecting. I don't think anything in my response indicates that I'm seething as you say.
You powerscale by AOE? I'm assuming you mean DC, but that's not the only way to powerscale, especially in verses where they can control and direct their output. That's why AP is a thing. Goku, the one character you love brining up hasn't destroyed any universe on screen at all. Nobody has except for Zeno and he did it through hax.
Depends on how big you think Las Noches is and some countries as just as small as cities. Regardless, even if he's just small city level there are character that far surpass him.
This is how I know you have no idea what you're talking about. Yamamoto threatened the entire Soul Society, not only the Seireitei which is the city. Not the realm, but the planet.
The anime is the way Kubo wanted to do things but he was rushed to do limited time and health. Kubo works with the team extremely closely to add new content that wasn't there, working on storyboards, and having a massive say in the series
The anime is just updated canon. It's the way Kubo wanted TYBW to be, but couldn't at the time. It's the same thing as the manga but with added content.
Soul Society refers to the realm or planet, the Seireitei is the city you're talking about. There is the World of the Living (our universe), the Soul Society (a reflection of our universe), Hueco Mundo ( Another realm of similar size), and a bunch of others.
There is a context that makes a difference, but you can't seem to be able to read any context. Just assume a one fits all definition.
Let me put it this way: You realize that the reason why they aren't destroying the planet is because they control their output? Because of the narrative? You bring up Goku, but Goku's never destroyed a universe on screen at all. Why is he universal now?
The Soul King sustains the realms with his reiatsu, Yhwach, Aizen, and Ichigo all have the same amount of reiatsu and are candidates to be Soul King (Reiatsu isn't the only reason why they're candidates). Yhwach was merging the realms through his reiatsu which correlates with stats.
It's not that difficult to follow.
Our observable universe, which is the supposed to be the same as the World of the Living in Bleach doesn't need to be shown everywhere. Why would we see a shot of Saturn or Neptune when the story doesn't involve them?
Yhwach in the process of destroying the cosmology can be considered the feat you want. Whether you accept it or not is up to you.
Hence you're proving my point. OP fans are deluded. I don't know how one or two Bleach fans represent the entire community according to you.
No, it's infinite. And it does change a lot. That means he has insane perception.
What are you defining as a universal threat? You don't even seem to be consistent on what a universal character is.
According to you from what I understand, a universal character is someone who does big AOE and destroyed a universe. So where did Goku destroy a universe on screen?
In conclusion:
You're projecting.
You're proving my point of OP fans being deluded. I don't want to turn this thread into a powerscaling discussion, but you can make a new thread to discuss. I'm fine with ending it here.
I never tried arguing that he was god. Go back and read again. I've given weaknesses to his Almighty. If you want to insinuate that I'm wanking, at least be the one who provides the weakness in Yhwach's ability instead of misrepresenting it.
I don't know what you're on about with Karin sneezing universes? Are you off the meds? Calm down buddy, it's not that deep, don't pop a blood vessel.
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Agreed. I'd even argue that those verses can be helped out by verses like Instant Death, ToAru, and JJBA but still got negged just by Classic Beyonder existing a trillion layers above them tbh.
A little OOT, but I also honestly doubt Umineko characters can decisively beat him, although my impression is many in CV seem to believe this. In general, since Classic Beyonder is TOAA before TOAA, I think Classic Beyonder is written to be somewhat like Azathoth in Cthulhu Mythos: Omnipotent and Omnipresent, but not Omniscient.
A little OOT, but I also honestly doubt Umineko characters can decisively beat him, although my impression is many in CV seem to believe this. In general, since Classic Beyonder is TOAA before TOAA, I think Classic Beyonder is written to be somewhat like Azathoth in Cthulhu Mythos: Omnipotent and Omnipresent, but not Omniscient.
Some of the Beyonder art is so clean
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Yeah Classic Beyond was basically TOAA before TOAA existed as a concept. I've heard that Umineko is a bit wanked, but also heard that it's also downplayed, so I dunno about that verse lol.
Some of the Beyonder art is so clean
Some of the Beyonder art is so clean
While I am also not familiar with Umineko verse, my understanding is that it is wanked because it has a great cosmology and filled with outerversal characters (with Featherine being the top of the food chain) and an Omnipotent (The Creator). The characters also toy a lot with concepts, causality, and narratives.
In CV, I have seen Umineko fans claiming that even a random fodder in it can destroy Classic Beyonder due to Umineko's superior cosmology in comparison to Marvel's, let alone named characters like Battler or Beatrice or Featherine.
Admittedly, I believe comparisons between outerversal beings tend to end up becoming "my infinity is bigger than yours", but my opinion that Umineko characters cannot really beat Classic Beyonder is admittedly due to my own scaling via Molecule Man. And I know you didn't really ask me this, but I hope you're okay with my explaining my reason.
As I am sure you already knew, Post-Retcon Molecule Man is still OP enough to control matter to the point where he also controls narratives:
And we know he can casually create an Omniverse just to make a point:
This dude controls narratives ala the witches in Umineko and casually creates an Omniverse. If Umineko characters are made of matter, they haven't got a prayer against him, but even he is still far weaker than Classic Molecule Man.
And I am sure you know what Classic Molecule Man said about Classic Beyonder after he got his ass whooped:
And this is why I believe Classic Beyonder would still win out against Featherine and co.
One final wild take: In general, as far as verses created by Japan go, I feel like the only verse with characters who can believably beat Classic Beyonder is Hololive.
And proportionally, the Bleach fandom is the one mostly obsessed with powerscaling, which they, like yourself, wank to hell and back.
You are though. I can taste the salt from here babes.
All universes get powerscaled by AOE or DC. They're the only finite way to measure the power of characters without jumping into the more nuanced details, and when doing so, Bleach is tiny. But bleach fans will say these guys can compete with DBS and the upper ends of DC and Marvel comics amongst other ridiculously overpowered 'verses'. If you were capable of reading or had basic (as in, 5 year old level) reading comprehension you'd know I originally said:
Can you see that okay now hun?
Well, from what we can gather from the tidbits in the story, Hueco Mundo as a whole (not to be confused with Las Noches) is something akin to a very small world/planet. Not sure of exact size for obvious reasons but reasonable estimates range from a maximum being the size of Pluto and minimums down to the size of Io or our moon.
And, where, pray tell, is Soul Society based?. The Seireitei is just the inner areas of the city.
Yep, still doesn't make it all canon. If it were provably Kubo's own work then it would be, but it's not. It's possibly canon, which is a massive grey area I'm not fucking with.
Show me where it is confirmed that the different realms are in their own rights and full scale the same size as our universe. Not that it matters because nothing in the BV besides the SK being killed threatens anything.
Ooo yeah, let's just fight but only slightly, and still somehow fight really hard. That's not how this shit works.
Goku would have destroyed his own universe when fighting Beerus for the first time if he didn't time his punches right - it's some stupid in universe explanation for why top tiers don't destroy everything as collateral damage. But since that fight Goku's unlocked 2 new forms, each one multiple times more powerful than the last, and has feats that make some of the Gods of Destruction (casual universe, at minimum, fighters) look like childsplay. Not withstanding his ever-improving (off screen) base stats which makes each multiplier with each form even bigger. And that's only up to the end of the Anime, idk if you care for the manga/spoilers but now we're 3 arcs past that point, and as you should know, that means Goku is at least 10x stronger than at the end of the Anime by now (minimum). It's getting to the point where Goku et al threaten everything in all of existence in their multiverse besides only a handful of nigh omnipotent characters.
But go on, Yhwach surely can hurt them. His little stupid fucking quincy bow and swords are bound to hurt guys that can, *checks notes* tank a multi-universal (3 to be exact) attack without any injury. Can't you see how fucking stupid your take and the take of most Bleach fans is? It's fucking outrageous.
For context, Yhwach doesn't even have any significant DC feats, but the biggest one in the bleach verse topped a few mountains. Let's be incredibly generous and say it was comparable to either Fat Man or Little Boy. These were 15,000,000,000 Joules of energy approx. To destroy our universe (which by the way, is way too weak even now to be an issue for guys like Goku) you'd need an estimated 10,168,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules of energy. Or a multiplier of Six hundred and eighty seven vigintillion times. This is a number larger than the age of our universe in milliseconds (it's over 13.8bn years old) by a multiplier of Octillions (To visualise, one octillion looks like this: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000). These are so INCOMPREHENSIBLY different that I wouldn't blame you if you couldn't even conceive the scale of difference presented here.
So, come again about how a Bleach character like Yhwach is going to somehow prevent his own death here and/or get the better of Goku?
Which as previously established, you cannot prove the scale of these is anything more than we've seen. And as previously established, is a moot point - the SK didn't sustain the realms with his Reiatsu. The realms existed because he existed. Yhwach didn't merge the realms. He killed the SK which made them start collapsing. That's literally not even a feat. Think of it like the god tree in norse mythology. It's just a tree - it is weak in combat. But take it down and everything would end. This is conceptually Kubo's inspiration for the soul king's purpose.
Sorry, what's the point you're failing to make here?
You mean Yhwach killed the guy that props up existence by existing. As mentioned above it isn't a feat.
Are you, a member of WorstGen, not an OP fan? One or two though? Bro i've been on the internet for a long time. You think it's just 1 or 2? I couldn't even give you a number.
Official volumes say he doesn't know his limits. That's a nice false equivalence there darling. And as I had already said, it is meaningless. When he fights a dude in the BV sure it's broken. But that's because BV characters are within the same powerscale. Chuck in somebody else from another powerscale and Yhwach may well be powerless to do anything to prevent his own death. He can only prevent his own death with what he is capable of doing. He can't magic up new powers bro. And as such, he therefore cannot scale against genuine universal threats. So when Bleach fans say that's the extent of the powerscale, it's laughable.
Something/someone that can destroy the universe. Reading comprehension is sorely lacking.
Nah, just using Goku as an example because he's the most common one I see spastics say Yhwach can beat. Goku's almost bottom of the pile when you start getting to the unfathomably strong verses/characters etc.
No dude. You turned this into a powerscaling discussion, which is EXACTLY what I said Bleach fans do. Cry.
I rest my case here. Deluded. Astonishingly deluded to think you can argue the Bleach Verse is Multi-versal. Yhwach doesn't fuck with anything beyond the Toriko-verse.
You are though. I can taste the salt from here babes.
All universes get powerscaled by AOE or DC. They're the only finite way to measure the power of characters without jumping into the more nuanced details, and when doing so, Bleach is tiny. But bleach fans will say these guys can compete with DBS and the upper ends of DC and Marvel comics amongst other ridiculously overpowered 'verses'. If you were capable of reading or had basic (as in, 5 year old level) reading comprehension you'd know I originally said:
Can you see that okay now hun?
Well, from what we can gather from the tidbits in the story, Hueco Mundo as a whole (not to be confused with Las Noches) is something akin to a very small world/planet. Not sure of exact size for obvious reasons but reasonable estimates range from a maximum being the size of Pluto and minimums down to the size of Io or our moon.
And, where, pray tell, is Soul Society based?. The Seireitei is just the inner areas of the city.
Yep, still doesn't make it all canon. If it were provably Kubo's own work then it would be, but it's not. It's possibly canon, which is a massive grey area I'm not fucking with.
Show me where it is confirmed that the different realms are in their own rights and full scale the same size as our universe. Not that it matters because nothing in the BV besides the SK being killed threatens anything.
Ooo yeah, let's just fight but only slightly, and still somehow fight really hard. That's not how this shit works.
Goku would have destroyed his own universe when fighting Beerus for the first time if he didn't time his punches right - it's some stupid in universe explanation for why top tiers don't destroy everything as collateral damage. But since that fight Goku's unlocked 2 new forms, each one multiple times more powerful than the last, and has feats that make some of the Gods of Destruction (casual universe, at minimum, fighters) look like childsplay. Not withstanding his ever-improving (off screen) base stats which makes each multiplier with each form even bigger. And that's only up to the end of the Anime, idk if you care for the manga/spoilers but now we're 3 arcs past that point, and as you should know, that means Goku is at least 10x stronger than at the end of the Anime by now (minimum). It's getting to the point where Goku et al threaten everything in all of existence in their multiverse besides only a handful of nigh omnipotent characters.
But go on, Yhwach surely can hurt them. His little stupid fucking quincy bow and swords are bound to hurt guys that can, *checks notes* tank a multi-universal (3 to be exact) attack without any injury. Can't you see how fucking stupid your take and the take of most Bleach fans is? It's fucking outrageous.
For context, Yhwach doesn't even have any significant DC feats, but the biggest one in the bleach verse topped a few mountains. Let's be incredibly generous and say it was comparable to either Fat Man or Little Boy. These were 15,000,000,000 Joules of energy approx. To destroy our universe (which by the way, is way too weak even now to be an issue for guys like Goku) you'd need an estimated 10,168,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 joules of energy. Or a multiplier of Six hundred and eighty seven vigintillion times. This is a number larger than the age of our universe in milliseconds (it's over 13.8bn years old) by a multiplier of Octillions (To visualise, one octillion looks like this: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000). These are so INCOMPREHENSIBLY different that I wouldn't blame you if you couldn't even conceive the scale of difference presented here.
So, come again about how a Bleach character like Yhwach is going to somehow prevent his own death here and/or get the better of Goku?
Which as previously established, you cannot prove the scale of these is anything more than we've seen. And as previously established, is a moot point - the SK didn't sustain the realms with his Reiatsu. The realms existed because he existed. Yhwach didn't merge the realms. He killed the SK which made them start collapsing. That's literally not even a feat. Think of it like the god tree in norse mythology. It's just a tree - it is weak in combat. But take it down and everything would end. This is conceptually Kubo's inspiration for the soul king's purpose.
Sorry, what's the point you're failing to make here?
You mean Yhwach killed the guy that props up existence by existing. As mentioned above it isn't a feat.
Are you, a member of WorstGen, not an OP fan? One or two though? Bro i've been on the internet for a long time. You think it's just 1 or 2? I couldn't even give you a number.
Official volumes say he doesn't know his limits. That's a nice false equivalence there darling. And as I had already said, it is meaningless. When he fights a dude in the BV sure it's broken. But that's because BV characters are within the same powerscale. Chuck in somebody else from another powerscale and Yhwach may well be powerless to do anything to prevent his own death. He can only prevent his own death with what he is capable of doing. He can't magic up new powers bro. And as such, he therefore cannot scale against genuine universal threats. So when Bleach fans say that's the extent of the powerscale, it's laughable.
Something/someone that can destroy the universe. Reading comprehension is sorely lacking.
Nah, just using Goku as an example because he's the most common one I see spastics say Yhwach can beat. Goku's almost bottom of the pile when you start getting to the unfathomably strong verses/characters etc.
No dude. You turned this into a powerscaling discussion, which is EXACTLY what I said Bleach fans do. Cry.
I rest my case here. Deluded. Astonishingly deluded to think you can argue the Bleach Verse is Multi-versal. Yhwach doesn't fuck with anything beyond the Toriko-verse.
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Yeah I've seen that as well. Not gonna go into that debate since I don't like all this outerversal shit. That's just too much to deal with.
I kinda agree with you, but again since I'm not well versed in Umineko, I can't really say anything. Beyonder and even MM have some insane feats.
Unfortunately, from I heard, Beyonder is a joke compared to what he used to be.
I kinda agree with you, but again since I'm not well versed in Umineko, I can't really say anything. Beyonder and even MM have some insane feats.
Unfortunately, from I heard, Beyonder is a joke compared to what he used to be.