Chapter Discussion Whitebeard and Rocks

[RayanOO]

When I read the chapter I asked myself why the fuck WB of all people joined that band of mofo.

WB always protected what he cared about, and always wanted a family. WB is an honorable man, with a code, ethic etc. Yes he is a pirate and likely killed a lot of people but I don't think he is the type of guy who killed someone just for fun.

And some things stoke me in this chapter :

Here at the end Sengoku said that Rocks was a group who killed friends and foe alike. And WB didn't seem to be the guy who will kill a friend.

And there it is said that they were a band of "terrorists" : Here it is more complicated, Dragon can be considered a terrorist against the WG. Luffy too etc. And with that shitty WG I think terrorism is not equal to pure bad guy right of the bat. And Rocks seemed to attack the Celestial Dragons.

But the way Sengoku talked about them seems to say that they liked to destroy. And the fact that Roger has to protect the slaves of the CD too means that Rocks would have killed everybody here no distinctions between innocents and CD.

We cannot forget that it is Sengoku version of the story, Sengoku is a marine, and if WB had told us the story it may have been quite different. But Sengoku is not completely (I think) far from the truth and Rocks was quite violent.

Why do you think WB was part of that group ?

Rocks may have an incredible charisma, and an iron will. Rocks was a D so likely someone special. Maybe young (30s) WB was attract by that man. Maybe Rocks swore to overthrow the corrupt WG and be king instead and knowing from where WB is (poor island who doesn't have WG protection so attacked a lot) it is understandbale that he was mad at the WG.
But I don't think this group matched WB spirit.

Your thoughts.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Aye, when I was reading the chapter I was thinking the same. Just didn't sound like Whitebeard at all. Especially since he said killing a crewmate was the one unforgivable thing.

Suppose the thing with Whitebeard is always his family, and this was before his sons came along- from what we know of the WB Pirates, most of them were just kids at the time. Did he think he could find a family with Rocks? Did he genuinely have a thing with Bakkin and she sort of led him astray? Was he using it to get money for Sphinx Island?

 

[OmegaPsyche]

Guess Xebec was charismatic, same as Luffy, while WB was a young lad back then.

 

[Xione]

It benefited Whitebeard and whatever his goals were (most likely money for that island). But it's clear he didn't have a "family" until later down the line when he formed his own crew. And "friends" doesn't have to mean crewmmates here, and I doubt Xebec would allow his crewmates to kill each other, since that would only be a determent to his goals.

The chapter only causes an issue if you had an image of Whitebeard being a saint, who wouldn't join bad pirates. But that has never been the case.

 

[Inspector_Mu]

Nobody is saint among pirates
WB only cares about his goals
So he cared about his crew like any captain does
Kids cares about his crew and friends
Roger
Luffy
Rocks
Anyone do the same

WB didnt yet form his crew back then
BM was giving birth and didnt have a powerful crew until her oldest kids reached 20s and 30s.

Post automatically merged: Sep 27, 2019

He changed his views after rocks disbanded I'm sure
I think all of them changed their views or became more pissed
Like Shiki Still wanted to control the world
BM still wanted her dream
Kaido became suicidal because of this I bet.
WB started his dream of family

 

[Grumpy Zoro]

It feels very out of character...nobody is saying WB was a saint but those guys were as bad as it gets supposedly ...

I don't think WB core principles changed so much...unless he had some revelation during his time on Rocks ship lol

 

[RayanOO]

The chapter only causes an issue if you had an image of Whitebeard being a saint, who wouldn't join bad pirates. But that has never been the case.

I agree with you that WB was a pirate who killed, robed etc. And Rocks goal to destroy the WG was likely shared by WB and Rocks was charismatic that is sure.

WB was not a saint, and very few people in One piece are.

We don't know how old WB was when he allied with Rocks but when they disbanded he had 36 so not so young. I have a hard time imagining WB with very bad pirates in a killing spree. I think he sould have realised that Rocks spirit and his own were not the same.

And "friends" doesn't have to mean crewmmates here, and I doubt Xebec would allow his crewmates to kill each other, since that would only be a determent to his goals.

Even if they were not crewmates friends or allied captains are still considered by WB as family. He considered Squardo like his son, and has likely huge respect for the other allied captains who were under him.

Aye, when I was reading the chapter I was thinking the same. Just didn't sound like Whitebeard at all. Especially since he said killing a crewmate was the one unforgivable thing.

Suppose the thing with Whitebeard is always his family, and this was before his sons came along- from what we know of the WB Pirates, most of them were just kids at the time. Did he think he could find a family with Rocks? Did he genuinely have a thing with Bakkin and she sort of led him astray? Was he using it to get money for Sphinx Island?

Yeah maybe it was the first time he met some people as strong as him, strong willied as him and that he could consider being with them. And Rocks is likely the key too. He likely managed to impress WB, to make him follow him.

 

[Lampyris]

Very sad that Whitebeard isn't around to comment on Kaido & BM's alliance, he never mentioned them at all really. Whitebeard probably hated their guts and his sons would never dare bring up their names. I hope the Rocks flashback gives us plenty of juicy crew interactions.

But I'm pretty happy finally knowing why Garp looked down on Whitebeard with this face

 

[yorosenpai]

When I read the chapter I asked myself why the fuck WB of all people joined that band of mofo.

WB always protected what he cared about, and always wanted a family. WB is an honorable man, with a code, ethic etc. Yes he is a pirate and likely killed a lot of people but I don't think he is the type of guy who killed someone just for fun.

And some things stoke me in this chapter :

Here at the end Sengoku said that Rocks was a group who killed friends and foe alike. And WB didn't seem to be the guy who will kill a friend.

And there it is said that they were a band of "terrorists" : Here it is more complicated, Dragon can be considered a terrorist against the WG. Luffy too etc. And with that shitty WG I think terrorism is not equal to pure bad guy right of the bat. And Rocks seemed to attack the Celestial Dragons.

But the way Sengoku talked about them seems to say that they liked to destroy. And the fact that Roger has to protect the slaves of the CD too means that Rocks would have killed everybody here no distinctions between innocents and CD.

We cannot forget that it is Sengoku version of the story, Sengoku is a marine, and if WB had told us the story it may have been quite different. But Sengoku is not completely (I think) far from the truth and Rocks was quite violent.

Why do you think WB was part of that group ?

Rocks may have an incredible charisma, and an iron will. Rocks was a D so likely someone special. Maybe young (30s) WB was attract by that man. Maybe Rocks swore to overthrow the corrupt WG and be king instead and knowing from where WB is (poor island who doesn't have WG protection so attacked a lot) it is understandbale that he was mad at the WG.
But I don't think this group matched WB spirit.

Your thoughts.

I ll wait for the official translation

 

[Xione]

Very sad that Whitebeard isn't around to comment on Kaido & BM's alliance, he never mentioned them at all really. Whitebeard probably hated their guts and his sons would never dare bring up their names. I hope the Rocks flashback gives us plenty of juicy crew interactions.

But I'm pretty happy finally knowing why Garp looked down on Whitebeard with this face

The whole statement of "hes just feebled old soldier now" and the giant smile on Garp's face as he looks at Whitebeard has a whole new meaning now.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Who knows it might have been his first crew and maybe he was pulled in with a big dream of defeating the WG/Marines or something.
Bt realising that would never work he started his own crew, found crewmates he could call his Son.

 

[bluefire12]

Didn't they say that the crew did not get along

 

[Finalbeta]

Rocks must have been almost as powerful as WB

 

[Just a member]

It could simply be that young WB had a character just like Rocks, Kaido, BM, Shiki etc but at some point he somewhat had enough of that, understood his mistakes and decided to start over with a completely dufferent mindset. This happens plenty in mangas: Thorfinn in Viland saga (part 1 and part 2 are pretty much opposed mindsets), Vegeta (to a lesser degree), Bellamy and so on.

What could have caused that? Maybe a younger crewmate he hold dear was killed by another crewmate, at a crucial moment during the battle with Garp amd Roger maybe Rocks sacrificed a crewmember to make an opening or try to escape. Endless slaughtering of innocent civilians and so on. As a young pirate was charmed by Rocks charisma but then he understood how abad he was or maybe Roger showed him another way.

 

[Topi Jerami]

What if actually during the God Valley Incident, Whitebeard was either, betraying the crew or abandoning and leaving their crew, so Rocks' manpower reduced by quite a lot that time and enabled Roger and Garp to win.

Now think about it, apparently Garp or Roger's feud with Rocks aren't as friendly as match between Garp and Roger. It was more serious.
But after Rocks has been finished,
Whitebeard who was member of Rocks before, didn't hate Roger instead having friendly drink with him.
Whitebeard who was member of Rocks before, kept Roger's throne empty during whole pre timeskip.

But Kaido was coming at Whitebeard, his fellow Rock member, and tried to intercept him prior MF arc, apparently to fight him instead of helping him.
Kaido killed and cooked Oden, who was a crewmember of both Roger and Whitebeard -> Kaido never cares Oden was WB's member and still killed him.

So after the incident, apparently Whitebeard was closer with Roger (who defeated Rocks) than Kaido (his fellow Rocks). Doesn't make much sense unless Whitebeard had untold story of himself regarding the God Valley Incident.

 

[Bogard]

We don't know why and how Whitebeard joined the Rocks yet. In his flashback he seemed completely disinterested by treasures and all their doings

And the way Marco was speaking of him, it was implied he was a good guy since the start

 

[RayanOO]

We don't know why and how Whitebeard joined the Rocks yet. In his flashback he seemed completely disinterested by treasures and all their doings

And the way Marco was speaking of him, it was implied he was a good guy since the start

So why do you think he joined ? If you have to think about something for why he joined such a group.

WB seemed like a nice guy since the beginning and Rocks club seemed to be full of bastards. And he likely wanted a family all along.

 

[Konstantis]

Main question is, why you think that Rocks was Evil? Didn't Roger was man who actually inherit Rocks dreams and will, and after 12 years he just tried to do things that Rocks goal was? Also never forget that even when Roger achieved this goal, he didn't got balls to finish everything, that's why he began the Pirate Era. In all terms it seems that Roger made mistake when decided to protect Celestial Dragons, while Luffy will finally complete Rocks dream, that's what about Whitebeard talked about(that he will began the greatest war).

 

[Rmstorm]

Main question is, why you think that Rocks was Evil? Didn't Roger was man who actually inherit Rocks dreams and will, and after 12 years he just tried to do things that Rocks goadl was? Also never forget that even when Roger achieved this goal, he didn't got balls to finish everything, that's why he began the Pirate Era. In all terms it seems that Roger made mistake when decided to protect Celestial Dragons, while Luffy will finally complete Rocks dream, that's what about Whitebeard talked about(that he will began the greatest war).

Luffy inherited both, Joyboy/Roger's and Rox's will.

Luffy inheritred Xebec D Rocks Will. The abilitly to make allies is from Rocks. He also attacked the Celestial Dragons like Luffy.

Luffy inherited Rogers will to be the most free on the see.

Luffy is like Garp in some actions.

Luffy like Oden is on his voyage to become Pirate King at the same age as oden 19.

Oden became Damaiyo at age 20.
Luffy will become PK when he turns 20.

Luffy has CoC and Voat like Oden.


PUT ALL OF THE ABOVE TOGETHER, = LUFFY, CARRYING 800 YEARS OF HISTPRY ON HIS BACK

 

[RayanOO]

Main question is, why you think that Rocks was Evil?

The way Sengoku spoke about them they were evil.

He said that they were a violent crew, that they killed Friends and foes alike, he compared them as terrorists etc. And we have in the crew Young Kaido, Big mom and Shiki three characters not known for their pacifism and niceness.

I think that Rocks was the rage and the wrath of the D clan.

Then we have Roger and Garp teaming up to stop them. Roger was there and helped, and on the island there were CD in their slaves. And from what we know Roger would have never protected CD so he may have helped the slaves. And that means that Rocks wanted to kill the slaves too.

You have Garp and Roger teaming up it means that their opponent was really nasty.