Controversial Who had the most growth?
- Thread starter Yoho
- Start date
Because Luffy's had high potential from the very start of the series. He was strong, he kept growing stronger, he had a good mind for battle, and he had a versatile devil fruit. Koby's potential was nil. Koby was a lesser man than Usopp. Imagine if Usopp came back after the timeskip and was capable of punching through mountains. It would be beyond belief.
Coby wouldn't be as strong or grow as fast if he himself didn't have the potential to. That has nothing to do with the growth of either. What has coby done that stacks up to and exceeds gaining awakening of a df, gaining all adhaki, and getting all his physical stats near the peak of the series. That's luffys growth so how does Coby's growth mat h up to that? How is getting the best stuff in the manga somehow not as much growth as maybe reaching high tier? It took more for luffy to reach top tier than coby to maybe reach high tier. Luffy went from low tier to top tier and coby went from very weak fodder to a possible high tier.
1. You are correct. Already stated that Luffy pretimeskip on part 1 was above commodores.
2. Zoro cut the mountain in half while ezibello blew away the DICED structure.
3. No Skypie Luffy is weaker actually since he got nerfed due to the climate
4. Yes in reference to them fighting more powerful adversaries. That was not the case in skypie. How did he defeat arlong? He over powered him cuz he was always stronger. How did he defeat buggy? Over powered him cuz he started of the gate stronger. How did he beat crocodile? Using water. How did he beat enel? His fruit made him immune added with the fact that even though he was nerfed his stats were always higher. So no. There is 0 proof that Luffy got stronger between chapter 1 till the time he made it to Skypie.
5. Characters have to show the AP and the speed and the defense capable of tankong and dishing out attacks of that caliber. Name me the mid tier that can replicate what Coby did with the ease of how he did it to a Yonko commander
6. How when he started off mid tier?
2. Zoro cut the mountain in half while ezibello blew away the DICED structure.
3. No Skypie Luffy is weaker actually since he got nerfed due to the climate
4. Yes in reference to them fighting more powerful adversaries. That was not the case in skypie. How did he defeat arlong? He over powered him cuz he was always stronger. How did he defeat buggy? Over powered him cuz he started of the gate stronger. How did he beat crocodile? Using water. How did he beat enel? His fruit made him immune added with the fact that even though he was nerfed his stats were always higher. So no. There is 0 proof that Luffy got stronger between chapter 1 till the time he made it to Skypie.
5. Characters have to show the AP and the speed and the defense capable of tankong and dishing out attacks of that caliber. Name me the mid tier that can replicate what Coby did with the ease of how he did it to a Yonko commander
6. How when he started off mid tier?
Again speaks nothing to the growth of both. I asked you to show what cony has that stacks up to luffys growth in strength and you respond by asking another question? Again starting weak doesn't off set the way more growth luffy got. Coby is the only character outside of helmeppo so have his similar start and growth. You are arguing on criteria not actual growth. Anyone can do it I can say law grew more than luffy because he went from being a sickly child to 1 of the strongest characters around today. If I ignore luffy growth and focus only on law starting sick then he had better growth. Then let me ask name another character that started as a sickly child to be as strong as law? This is a very dumb argument and you can do it with any separate criteria you want to. Coby starting weak doesn't mean him growing stronger is better than the massive leaps luffy jumped.
[automerge]1710258077[/automerge]
1. Ranks in the Marines don't mean levels of strength. The only level that needed strength was a admiral because the position requires it. Luffy being stronger than like the 4th or 5th ranked marines position means nothing.
2. Dude I'm not arguing the attack level with you. Do you understand 1 attack doesn't change a characters level. You just keep harping on this and I even gave you law and his gamma knife in dressrosa. Do you think law in dressrosa was a top tier because of gamma knife? If not you get the point and why coby isn't a forsure high tier yet till his other stats are shown.
3. Skypie luffy isn't chapter 1 luffy. I keep saying chapter 1 luffy is a low tier and you keep trying to talk about skypiea. Is chapter 1 luffy mid tier or a low tier. Have consistent shown why chapter 1 luffy is a low tier you refuse to show why chapter 1 luffy is amid tier or who chapter 1 luffy can handle in mid tier.
4. So you ignore the manga. The manga tells us they get stronger and luffy flat out shows he can do more every single arc. I'm not arguing with you about manga fact. You opinion doesn't overtake the manga. Luffy learn different ways to fight, showing better and better physical abilities, learning new attacks, and gaining battle experience but sure chapter 1 luffy didn't get stronger.
5. No they don't. Kata has shown nothing that can match honesty impact but he can easily beat current coby. Wait hold on heres a question is coby stronger than kata? 1 attack doesn't mean you are stronger than a character that cannot do the same level attack. Mingo was stronger than law in dressrosa and he had no attack near gamma knife but since his fighting ability was better than law's it didn't mean law could beat him or was stronger. Overall stats are what determines a level not 1 attack. Every single attack coby has isn't at honesty impacts level and if he can't fight at a high tier he'd be washed before he can even bust the move out.
6. Chapter 1. Chapter 1 luffy didn't have many named attacks , he was way weaker, he didn't have as good df mastery as he had just mastered his base, he didn't have much combat experience, was extremely niave and would fall for any trick etc. These and more show he was a low tier. Post el coby would be stronger than chapter 1 luffy and he was a low tier at the time.
[automerge]1710258077[/automerge]
1. Ranks in the Marines don't mean levels of strength. The only level that needed strength was a admiral because the position requires it. Luffy being stronger than like the 4th or 5th ranked marines position means nothing.
2. Dude I'm not arguing the attack level with you. Do you understand 1 attack doesn't change a characters level. You just keep harping on this and I even gave you law and his gamma knife in dressrosa. Do you think law in dressrosa was a top tier because of gamma knife? If not you get the point and why coby isn't a forsure high tier yet till his other stats are shown.
3. Skypie luffy isn't chapter 1 luffy. I keep saying chapter 1 luffy is a low tier and you keep trying to talk about skypiea. Is chapter 1 luffy mid tier or a low tier. Have consistent shown why chapter 1 luffy is a low tier you refuse to show why chapter 1 luffy is amid tier or who chapter 1 luffy can handle in mid tier.
4. So you ignore the manga. The manga tells us they get stronger and luffy flat out shows he can do more every single arc. I'm not arguing with you about manga fact. You opinion doesn't overtake the manga. Luffy learn different ways to fight, showing better and better physical abilities, learning new attacks, and gaining battle experience but sure chapter 1 luffy didn't get stronger.
5. No they don't. Kata has shown nothing that can match honesty impact but he can easily beat current coby. Wait hold on heres a question is coby stronger than kata? 1 attack doesn't mean you are stronger than a character that cannot do the same level attack. Mingo was stronger than law in dressrosa and he had no attack near gamma knife but since his fighting ability was better than law's it didn't mean law could beat him or was stronger. Overall stats are what determines a level not 1 attack. Every single attack coby has isn't at honesty impacts level and if he can't fight at a high tier he'd be washed before he can even bust the move out.
6. Chapter 1. Chapter 1 luffy didn't have many named attacks , he was way weaker, he didn't have as good df mastery as he had just mastered his base, he didn't have much combat experience, was extremely niave and would fall for any trick etc. These and more show he was a low tier. Post el coby would be stronger than chapter 1 luffy and he was a low tier at the time.
Last edited:
Disagree. Koby's growth is comparatively much larger. Going from 1 to 50 is simply a much more impressive growth ratio than going from 30 to 100. Is the number 70 a larger number than 49? Yes. But the end result is that the 1 has become 50 times bigger than the 30 becoming 3.3x bigger. To grow something from nothing is just as hard if not harder than to grow something that's already impressive into something even more impressive
there's no comparison. Law ate a devil fruit that allowed him to overcome his illness, which is a very extenuating circumstance, and also that happened 13 years ago. It took Law 13 years to get from that point to this point. You're completely ignoring the temporal scale here. Especially since the argument is based specifically on their growth from the beginning of the series.
there's no comparison. Law ate a devil fruit that allowed him to overcome his illness, which is a very extenuating circumstance, and also that happened 13 years ago. It took Law 13 years to get from that point to this point. You're completely ignoring the temporal scale here. Especially since the argument is based specifically on their growth from the beginning of the series.
If we use the CP9 measuring, Koby went from a 1 to a 4000 (about pre-skip Lucci level right now).
Luffy on the other hand went from a 500 to something like a 500,000 (Shakky said that Rayleigh was a hundred times stronger than them back on Sabaody, when Luffy was about a 5000).
So Koby grew with the factor 4000, whereas Luffy grew with the factor 1000.
Luffy is WAY stronger than Koby, but Koby had the higher growth rate, simply because he started at the very bottom.
Luffy on the other hand went from a 500 to something like a 500,000 (Shakky said that Rayleigh was a hundred times stronger than them back on Sabaody, when Luffy was about a 5000).
So Koby grew with the factor 4000, whereas Luffy grew with the factor 1000.
Luffy is WAY stronger than Koby, but Koby had the higher growth rate, simply because he started at the very bottom.
Luffy was a low tier and not that impressive. If giving numbers is what you want to do. If 100 is top tier luffy went from like a 10 to 100 while coby went from a 1 to maybe a 60. Luffy would still have to grow more than coby did to reach his level Luffy gaining way more abilities and strength is what makes his growth stronger. You can't ignore the amount luffy grew because coby started weaker. Using arbitrary number mean nothing. Like I told yhe other guy it's harder to move up tiers. Coby maybe getting to high tier is not to do with luffy going from low tier to top tier. The gap in power it takes luffy to do that dwarfs anything coby has done. In simple terms luffys growth far out paces Coby's starting point. It took way more for luffy to get where he's at than coby to get where he's at.
2. The point is it's a criteria focused. Hell uses sanji he started off as a fodder kidd that couldn't even throw a punch. Name a character that reached sanjis level in 2 years 2 with no df help. You can literally do this with basically any character and just pick a trait. With coby you are focusing on him starting weak which means notwjen compared to luffy at the same time. Luffy going from a low tier to top tier is vastly hard and took more strength than going from weak fodder to maybe high ter which it isn't even shown he can fight at that level.
2. The point is it's a criteria focused. Hell uses sanji he started off as a fodder kidd that couldn't even throw a punch. Name a character that reached sanjis level in 2 years 2 with no df help. You can literally do this with basically any character and just pick a trait. With coby you are focusing on him starting weak which means notwjen compared to luffy at the same time. Luffy going from a low tier to top tier is vastly hard and took more strength than going from weak fodder to maybe high ter which it isn't even shown he can fight at that level.
There is nothing to debate on.
He was the same luffy up to Skypie.
Did he level up for buggy? No. He was simply stronger
Did he level up for arlong? No. He was simply stronger
Did he level up for crocodile? No. He simply used water.
Did he level up for enel? No. He was simply immune due to his devil fruit
He was the same luffy up to Skypie.
Did he level up for buggy? No. He was simply stronger
Did he level up for arlong? No. He was simply stronger
Did he level up for crocodile? No. He simply used water.
Did he level up for enel? No. He was simply immune due to his devil fruit