Questions & Mysteries Who is the traitor?
- Thread starter Johnny B. Decent
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The traitor isn't one of the scabbards... This Oden flashback is gonna feature how Oden created the scabbards and it would get massively under cut if at the end of yhe flashback, we cut back and one of yhe turned traitor somehow in the 20 year tine skip
So I see it as either the motives of who the traitor are literally revealed in the Oden flashback and we can actually tell who the traitor is like before the flashback ends or the traitor isn't a scabbard at all
Exactly, this what I was hinting at... Oden is like a parallel to Luffy in some regard and for him to be betrayed by his own men would be like one of yhe strawhats betraying the cree
The only way one of scabbards turns out to be a traitor is if we clearly see during this Oden flashback that this scabbards was clearly not on good terms even back then because if the flashback just ends with the scabbards all being loyal to Oden and then it's revealed that all along of them wasn't. We would have to rewrite the Oden flashback showing why this scabbard was secretly evil and Oden's flashback loses some of its impact since one of his men secretly hated hin the whole time and he didn't even notice
So I see it as either the motives of who the traitor are literally revealed in the Oden flashback and we can actually tell who the traitor is like before the flashback ends or the traitor isn't a scabbard at all
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Exactly, this what I was hinting at... Oden is like a parallel to Luffy in some regard and for him to be betrayed by his own men would be like one of yhe strawhats betraying the cree
The only way one of scabbards turns out to be a traitor is if we clearly see during this Oden flashback that this scabbards was clearly not on good terms even back then because if the flashback just ends with the scabbards all being loyal to Oden and then it's revealed that all along of them wasn't. We would have to rewrite the Oden flashback showing why this scabbard was secretly evil and Oden's flashback loses some of its impact since one of his men secretly hated hin the whole time and he didn't even notice
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When I first started the Kanjuro is traitor train (believe it or not, I am the FIRST EVER who started this whole shit long ago during Orojackson even LOL, I can't believe it became this popular haha). Anyway, when anyone asks me about the reason for his betrayel, I always stated that his motives should be BEFORE he joined him, and not betrayed him waaay after.
Meaning, his plan from the get go was to overthrow Oden's father (previous shogun) and Kanjuro was simply getting close to Oden because even after they can manage to kill Oden's father, Oden is still the true rightful heir as long as he's alive, and even after his death, it will be Momo's....etc. So, someone close to Orochi had to get close to the rightful heir in order to not only dispose of Kozoki Sukiyaki, but also from oden who would take the throne after his father getting overthrown.
So, as far as it goes, it's not really a betrayel, but rather he is from the get go on the enemy side. And if Oda wants to make it personal, he can EASILY do it with the fact that Oden's father was a shogun, that alone can create many different scenarios where Kanjuro and his family got the short end of the stick with Sukiyaki ruling. Oda simply can write some good stuff out of this. And during the time Orochi was planning and scheming to take down Sukiyaki, he had to make someone get closer to Oden. Which is why I think it will be different than you picturing Luffy getting betrayed by his nakama.
besides, Luffy is Luffy, he's the luckiest, and he does have the power Mihawk spoke about making allies, and turning enemies into allies, Oden can be a mirror to Luffy, but it's a damn sure, not in everything. Cause Luffy as MC has the biggest luck and plot on his side LOL, where he is blessed to have Nakama who care for the crew more than their lives. Other crews are always vulnerable to betrayal EVEN THOUGH if Kanjuro joined him because he was following orochi, it isn't technically a betrayel, and rather following his mission is more accurate actually.
Meaning, his plan from the get go was to overthrow Oden's father (previous shogun) and Kanjuro was simply getting close to Oden because even after they can manage to kill Oden's father, Oden is still the true rightful heir as long as he's alive, and even after his death, it will be Momo's....etc. So, someone close to Orochi had to get close to the rightful heir in order to not only dispose of Kozoki Sukiyaki, but also from oden who would take the throne after his father getting overthrown.
So, as far as it goes, it's not really a betrayel, but rather he is from the get go on the enemy side. And if Oda wants to make it personal, he can EASILY do it with the fact that Oden's father was a shogun, that alone can create many different scenarios where Kanjuro and his family got the short end of the stick with Sukiyaki ruling. Oda simply can write some good stuff out of this. And during the time Orochi was planning and scheming to take down Sukiyaki, he had to make someone get closer to Oden. Which is why I think it will be different than you picturing Luffy getting betrayed by his nakama.
besides, Luffy is Luffy, he's the luckiest, and he does have the power Mihawk spoke about making allies, and turning enemies into allies, Oden can be a mirror to Luffy, but it's a damn sure, not in everything. Cause Luffy as MC has the biggest luck and plot on his side LOL, where he is blessed to have Nakama who care for the crew more than their lives. Other crews are always vulnerable to betrayal EVEN THOUGH if Kanjuro joined him because he was following orochi, it isn't technically a betrayel, and rather following his mission is more accurate actually.
But we saw all the scabbards as like 10 year old ruffians... its very closely implied that these guys were all just like vagabonds that Oden chose to save on his own and raise as his troupe...
Like really, you're implying that kanjuro or whoever as a 10 year old had a vendetta against the Kozuki and when by pure luck the heir of the Kozuki came and saved his life and raised him for like 20 years, all along he was holding onto some hate for this guy that none of the other 8 guys who grew up with him for those 20 years ever noticed
You realise one of the big character traits Luffy has is picking up on people's feelings towards him or their general intentions and emotions and it got ridiculous that Oda even made it a version of Observation haki... If Oden is a variation of Luffy to any extent, why wouldn't he notice that for 20 years to ha this guy actually hated him? Like even if you say Oden didn't have the emotional intelligence and empathy Luffy has, Oda still literally made empathy a type of observation haki so that his that even just having observation haki can probably allow you to pick up on such things and yet Oden and the other scabbards are so out of touch that they never did for 20 years... He'll fuckin Doflamingo had this ability and he's a literal psychopath incapable of processing other people's emotions but even he could read people's intentions and emotions well enough to manipulate them... and yet great Oden couldn't
Hehehe... Anyway, it's already been stated that Orochi was close to Oden and managed to betray him so maybe Oden really isn't like Luffy at all and can't pick up on such things at all but for Oden to not notice it in his like direct family like that and one of the Scabbards the personally raised for 20 years... I still maintain that this would sour Oden a bit in terms of how close he actually was to his men... and remember it's not even about not knowing the back stories of the Scabbards since Luffy barely knows even half the backstories of his own crew, and yet he manged to read then like a book when he met them. For Oden to fail to notice one of his guys secretly hated him from when they were little kids for 20 years is an actual character flaw in Oden himself... and Character flaws arent a bad thing of course, if they are explained and used properly
Like really, you're implying that kanjuro or whoever as a 10 year old had a vendetta against the Kozuki and when by pure luck the heir of the Kozuki came and saved his life and raised him for like 20 years, all along he was holding onto some hate for this guy that none of the other 8 guys who grew up with him for those 20 years ever noticed
You realise one of the big character traits Luffy has is picking up on people's feelings towards him or their general intentions and emotions and it got ridiculous that Oda even made it a version of Observation haki... If Oden is a variation of Luffy to any extent, why wouldn't he notice that for 20 years to ha this guy actually hated him? Like even if you say Oden didn't have the emotional intelligence and empathy Luffy has, Oda still literally made empathy a type of observation haki so that his that even just having observation haki can probably allow you to pick up on such things and yet Oden and the other scabbards are so out of touch that they never did for 20 years... He'll fuckin Doflamingo had this ability and he's a literal psychopath incapable of processing other people's emotions but even he could read people's intentions and emotions well enough to manipulate them... and yet great Oden couldn't
Hehehe... Anyway, it's already been stated that Orochi was close to Oden and managed to betray him so maybe Oden really isn't like Luffy at all and can't pick up on such things at all but for Oden to not notice it in his like direct family like that and one of the Scabbards the personally raised for 20 years... I still maintain that this would sour Oden a bit in terms of how close he actually was to his men... and remember it's not even about not knowing the back stories of the Scabbards since Luffy barely knows even half the backstories of his own crew, and yet he manged to read then like a book when he met them. For Oden to fail to notice one of his guys secretly hated him from when they were little kids for 20 years is an actual character flaw in Oden himself... and Character flaws arent a bad thing of course, if they are explained and used properly
In order for the traitor to be Kanjuro, tons of stuff needs to be overlooked. You need to just pretend certain events and certain bits of information never happened. Ignore what Kanjuro's character is. Not to mention making up a ton of stuff that Kanjuro magically found out off-panel. It's as flimsy a guess as the rest of the candidates.
Luffy didn't pick on Pudding's feelings though hahaha
You need to elaborate on the stuff that needs to be overlooked in order for us, Kanjuro accusers to actually respond LOL. I mean it might be true what you say and you prove the theory to be wrong, but unless we know what you are talking about, it's not really much of an argument by your side
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You need to elaborate on the stuff that needs to be overlooked in order for us, Kanjuro accusers to actually respond LOL. I mean it might be true what you say and you prove the theory to be wrong, but unless we know what you are talking about, it's not really much of an argument by your side
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Aren't we talking about the scabbards and one of them being the traitor? You don't think this would feature in anyway in The Oden flashback?
What I said was if a scabbard is the traitor, they would have to be revealed in the Oden flashback since it would obviously explain why and how the scabbards were formed and why any of them would be a traitor... It would be ridiculous for the flashback to end and then later on when the traitor is revealed we go back to the flashback and start replaying what happened and nd changing contexts of things in the flashback because that would essentially mean the first flashback was incomplete
What I said was if a scabbard is the traitor, they would have to be revealed in the Oden flashback since it would obviously explain why and how the scabbards were formed and why any of them would be a traitor... It would be ridiculous for the flashback to end and then later on when the traitor is revealed we go back to the flashback and start replaying what happened and nd changing contexts of things in the flashback because that would essentially mean the first flashback was incomplete
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