Questions & Mysteries Who is WSM and WSC after WB and Kaido died?

Will WSM and WSC be reused on someone else?

  • Yes

  • No


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#41
It's Mihawk of course. It just so happens that the Worlds Strongest Swordsman, is also the Worlds Strongest Man

Using the synopsis at the back of a volume to power-scale is silly, Kaido is not the Worlds Strongest Man.

There is a databook, that was released directly after the Marineford arc, therefore after WB's death (Previous WSM), that is talking about the events of 3D2Y, the timeskip.

It explicitly states that Zoro, after receiving Luffy's message of ringing the bell, set himself the task of simply becoming stronger over the next 2 years. The databook says he does this by learning the sword from the strongest man in the world:

Raw text translated:

This shows that after Whitebeards death, Mihawk is called the WSM. This is obviously intentional. Zoro is learning the sword (Because Mihawk happens to be a swordsman), from the strongest man in the world. He is also the strongest swordsman.

It's clear that a big theme concerning WB was that he was no longer equal to his legacy, Old age of course, but Oda mentioned in an sbs that he was supposed to draw additional scenes that emphasised just how dangerous Whitebeard getting off his stabilisers was. His crew showed concern over this, but the second Whitebeard got off his treatment his health began declining rapidly, and this is throughout the entirety of the arc.

Being unable to react to Squardo, when ordinarily he should have done according to Marco. So even by this time, even without his death, WB was very quickly become a husk of himself even in old age.

The strongest driving argument for WB is obviously the quake fruit with it's destructive capabilities, and by extension can also be used to call BB the strongest man in the world instead. But I think it's clear that, while the df obviously contributed to WB's vaunted strength, it would be silly to say he was carried by it, as he was matching Roger with just his base strength.

Therefore I don't think just having the Quake fruit grants you that kind of status, but rather a combination of factors. And while it has the most destructive capability, a close (for lack of better term) second in being able to wreak havoc is swordsmanship. S-hawk cutting kuja island, Nusjuro in egghead, Zoro slashing off one of the horns at onigashima. Mihawks casual swing in MF. So obviously the WSS would possess the best capability in this regard.

In terms of physicality, we of course have statements for mihawk, one of them saying that even his "one arm" is classified at the strongest. Even if you don't like this notion of argumentation and shout "statement man mihawk" the fact of the matter is there is a very good argument to be made. If you just use common sense.

pre-ts Zoro, who could lift a building, called Shusui despite in terms of it's make having a thin blade and being normal sized, "heavy". This is just a quality in black blades in that they are heavier, and therefore require more strength to wield. Oden wielded Enma as light as a feather sure, but Mihawk wields a 2M Black blade as light as a feather as well, and with unparalleled finesse. You can then go into his databook statements talking about his ability to incorporate hardness and softness in his swordsmanship, despite wielding something like Yoru.



I personally buy into the idea that Zoro has to surpass Shanks before he fights Mihawk, I think when Zoro beats Mihawk he will be the WSM, so no matter what you believe about Shanks or Mihawk, he will be stronger than them both.

I don't think it's a problem if the end game opponents like Garling and Nusjuro end up showcasing feats against Zoro where he has to struggle in a clash or something, that it would diminish his "WSS" or "WSM" status. Because now we're in the realm of immortal demons, not just men. Which is why people think Garling now is going to be stronger than Shanks and Mihawk both.

I have no issue with this, and it wouldn't make Mihawk's title fraudulent, because he'd still be a stronger swordsman than Garling, he has a black blade for crying out loud, no amount of yokai powers is going to take away from the fact that Mihawk is the greatest combatant with a weapon in the world.

And as for haki, I believe that there is not a significant enough disparity between Shanks and Mihawks haki to where one can dogwalk the other. If you're were talking about someone who relies on a devil fruit, like an Admiral or Gorosei then you would have a point, as CoC can negate their abilities, but Mihawk doesn't rely on that anyway. So even Joyboy haki is not going to cause an issue, unless Mihawk was vice admiral level, then he could get knocked out.

You would still have to get past Mihawk's guard when he's the best as close combat, so good luck with that. That's why I think that even characters you may believe have stronger haki than Mihawk like Roger for example will have a hard time actually landing on Mihawk. And unless the disparity in haki is so high, it will always be difficult, Roger is not doing to Mihawk like what he did to oden, who at this point hadn't even gotten many times stronger through the voyage yet. And even then Oden handled it well enough.


Speaking of Oden, people for some reason can't read, so they don't understand has was in the same league as the greats, by the time he returned (Roger and WB) It makes sense why Kaido includes him in his top 5, and it's not really a top 5 in the sense that Oden is just there to fill in the 5th spot, he is undoubtedly just on that level, which is why Kaido acknowledges that. Losing because of plot doesn't diminish his strength, he was about to beat Kaido but narratively this had to be thwarted.

I personally believe that Shanks and Mihawk are on this same level, but actually better. Mihawk has a black blade, which hasn't been achieved by Roger, WB or Oden. And shanks portrayal, in terms of direct comparison to Roger, like his divine departure, looks better.
You also have Shanks being compared to Joyboy in some manner whereas Roger never was.

Oda obviously values narrative most, and these silly arguments like "that wasn't rogers full strength" or "he was holding back" don't matter.

Because Oda chose to portray the move better for shanks in the narrative itself. Oda chose to give Mihawk a black blade, instead of oden who is in the same league as the greats, and is a swordsman first and foremost. When he could have easily justified it. But again for the sake of the narrative, Zoro was going to trade in Shusui for Enma, the most holy treasure of Wano for Odens sword.

So like I said it's a combination of factors, not just haki or mastery of an ability like a devil fruit or mastery of swordsmanship, but both that make someone WSM. WB had all 3 at a high level. Zoro doesn't have a DF but he will have a black blade and incredibly strong haki both by the time he is WSS, and therefore WSM.

Enough to justify him being stronger than Mihawk or Shanks if you think shanks is stronger. But it could definitely be the case that by the time Zoro is WSS (or sometime later) , both Mihawk and Shanks could be dead, Mihawk killed by zoro and Shanks killed by BB for example.

The reason Shanks wouldn't be WSM, going by previous reasoning I have described, is that he has one arm, which may not affect his inherent strength (I know about those statements), but undoubtedly it is going to affect his swordsmanship, and overall strength, and ofc he doesn't have a black blade either. Zoro will basically have the best of both worlds. He'll be a better version of Oden with a black blade basically.

This especially makes sense if you think Mihawk doesn't have CoC, but his base haki is just that strong. (To the not-so-intelligent-individual, this would automatically make mihawks haki shit compared to CoC top tiers, but I seriously doubt Oda is going to portray the message of you have to be born with a certan attribute to achieve your dreams and be the best, so if he does go this route it will show you can simply "get gud" and increase your haki to be able to compete with CoC users just fine and rival them).

Because Shanks doesn't quite go about swordsmanship in the same way as Oden or Mihawk, in terms of fighting style. And Mihawk would have an emphasis on mastery of swordsmanship, since making a black blade is hinted to do with more than just haki in the latest databooks.

And so Zoro will be a Black blade swordsman with Conquerors haki named attacks. Hence a better version of Oden. (Besides I believe Zoro shouldn't be able beat Mihawk anyway, especially if Mihawk has coc, so it wouldn't surprise me if oda pulls this)

As for Luffy... well he's gonna be the pirate king anyway, so who cares.
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#43
I don't think it's a problem if the end game opponents like Garling and Nusjuro end up showcasing feats against Zoro where he has to struggle in a clash or something, that it would diminish his "WSS" or "WSM" status. Because now we're in the realm of immortal demons, not just men. Which is why people think Garling now is going to be stronger than Shanks and Mihawk both.
I have no issue with this, and it wouldn't make Mihawk's title fraudulent, because he'd still be a stronger swordsman than Garling, he has a black blade for crying out loud, no amount of yokai powers is going to take away from the fact that Mihawk is the greatest combatant with a weapon in the world.
Perhaps I missed the part but who do you think is WSC now?

Also, here are my two cents regarding the quoted parts.
If there is someone stronger than Mihawk, Zoro's aim is the issue. He is the one who decides the strongest by selecting his target.
This is not a Mihawk issue, it is a Zoro issue.

His dream should be impossible and he targets the strongest and no, this doesn't refer to swordsmen alone.
That is why he targetted Kaido the whole time in Wano.
If there is a character stronger than Mihawk, he instantly becomes Zoro's target. But for now, Zoro still targets Mihawk.
 
#44
I don't think Oda Is going to use the title again.

Anyway, It's Akainu for "public"characters, Imu in reality (but Imu always was even when WB was alive).

WSC idk, tbh that title never made any sense since Kaido was in fact just a human sub-species at best.
 
#45
Oda won't reuse those titles imo. Imu fits category for both.

Ignoring imu Dragon , shanks , Mihawk , akainu , gorosei garling , topman all are fighting for position of WSM.

Luffy and BB will surpass all though.
 
#46
the titles were fake and none of the current characters fit the criteria
WSM- a strong person with the most destructive df
WSC- A strong person with the strongest zoan df
WSS- A strong person with the best sword
 
#47
Oda won't reuse those titles imo. Imu fits category for both.

Ignoring imu Dragon , shanks , Mihawk , akainu , gorosei garling , topman all are fighting for position of WSM.

Luffy and BB will surpass all though.
Yes, when we found out imu' existence, every title of the"strongest" doesn't make any sense anymore

Btw i really think that teach will call himself the strongest pirate in the world very soon

 
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