Powers & Abilities Why do people ignore power counters/matchups?
- Thread starter sanjikun
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Totally agree with that but I think most of the fandom does.
For example the swordsmen are always at disadvantage against a brawler since they usually only coat their swords with haki while the brawler tends to use haki on every part of his body.
So as long as the brawler has better haki he risks nothing while a brawler with shit haki can damage a swordsman easily if he hits him anywhere on his body.
For example the swordsmen are always at disadvantage against a brawler since they usually only coat their swords with haki while the brawler tends to use haki on every part of his body.
So as long as the brawler has better haki he risks nothing while a brawler with shit haki can damage a swordsman easily if he hits him anywhere on his body.
Cracker's defense being too strong for Luffy to break isn't a matchup advantage. It means that Luffy was weaker than him.
a matchup advantage is using nami's rain to soften the biscuits and then using your rubber stomach to eat far more biscuits than a normal person would be able to, effectively negating cracker's ability.
a matchup advantage is using nami's rain to soften the biscuits and then using your rubber stomach to eat far more biscuits than a normal person would be able to, effectively negating cracker's ability.
You really have no argument here. The second Oda decided Tankman -> Cracker, Snakeman -> Katakuri, Luffy had a matchup problem.
Luffy's preferred Gear 4 is Boundman. He's used countless times, while those forms only once. Snakeman for example, doesn't just sacrifice power, it sacrifices defence. These are weaker forms overall, that Luffy uses in extreme edge cases.
Luffy's preferred Gear 4 is Boundman. He's used countless times, while those forms only once. Snakeman for example, doesn't just sacrifice power, it sacrifices defence. These are weaker forms overall, that Luffy uses in extreme edge cases.
Well, he wasn't...he attacked Luffy directly by himself.
And the next Panel Shows us a shockwave/Haki clash. Yet, Cracker was not defeated - so he can fight against G4 Luffy personaly.
And the next Panel Shows us a shockwave/Haki clash. Yet, Cracker was not defeated - so he can fight against G4 Luffy personaly.
Cracker could "fight" with Gear 4 according to you, but couldn't shit to obese, base Luffy for half a day.
In a real fight vs. Gear 4, Cracker gets bodied. Luffy did to Cracker, what Kaido did to him.
Sneak attack? He attacked luffy from the front...how is that a sneak attack? It's called a counter attack.
So Cracker is a bitch for ''hiding'', but Luffy who was running away from him the whole time, is a chad?
Same as Katakuri who has FS couldn't do shit to base Luffy, yet could fight G4 Boundman and Snakeman.
There is something called plot. By your logic Cracker is weaker than Nami, because he ''couldn't'' kill her all that time.
Cracker can't handle pain. So this one shot is not because Luffy is so strong that he can one shot YC's, but because Cracker can't handle physical pain. Even a weaker person would one shot Cracker, if they can land it ofc.
And Luffy got saved by Plot against Cracker. Cracker who could easily penetrate luffy's haki in G4 did NOT use Haki against Tankman. If he would, he would have stabbed Luffy and it would be over for him.
So Cracker is a bitch for ''hiding'', but Luffy who was running away from him the whole time, is a chad?
Same as Katakuri who has FS couldn't do shit to base Luffy, yet could fight G4 Boundman and Snakeman.
There is something called plot. By your logic Cracker is weaker than Nami, because he ''couldn't'' kill her all that time.
Cracker can't handle pain. So this one shot is not because Luffy is so strong that he can one shot YC's, but because Cracker can't handle physical pain. Even a weaker person would one shot Cracker, if they can land it ofc.
And Luffy got saved by Plot against Cracker. Cracker who could easily penetrate luffy's haki in G4 did NOT use Haki against Tankman. If he would, he would have stabbed Luffy and it would be over for him.
T
or that G4 is not that much more powerful than base Luffy.
he got launched pretty far and through several biscuits that only broke by G4 attacks. thats was an odd, but strong attack.
Luffy could not deal with Crackers meat shield and Cracker played it safe (in a 1v2) until he thought Luffy was a free kill.
Cracker completely nullified Luffys offensive ability. that was a clear counter to the way Luffy fights.
PIS saved Luffy here.
circumstances must be ignored to powerscale by rule of thumb.
he got launched pretty far and through several biscuits that only broke by G4 attacks. thats was an odd, but strong attack.
Luffy could not deal with Crackers meat shield and Cracker played it safe (in a 1v2) until he thought Luffy was a free kill.
Cracker completely nullified Luffys offensive ability. that was a clear counter to the way Luffy fights.
PIS saved Luffy here.
circumstances must be ignored to powerscale by rule of thumb.
Well, he wasn't...he attacked Luffy directly by himself.
And the next Panel Shows us a shockwave/Haki clash. Yet, Cracker was not defeated - so he can fight against G4 Luffy personaly.
And the next Panel Shows us a shockwave/Haki clash. Yet, Cracker was not defeated - so he can fight against G4 Luffy personaly.
J
Boundman defence is better than snakeman? Coz both were trash at defence Luffy is the one who had matchup advantage vs Cracker:
Food
Rain
Boundman is nonsense, AP doesnt make you win if your skills and haki sucks
"Doffy cut law arm" remind me again where did Law coat his whole arms like Luffy does? Law only coat his hands. Cracker sliced Luffy coated arm
"Cracker hide and sneak attack" wrong. Ge fought g4 boundman intensively head on. Go cry to Oda.
Luffy is the one who ran, ate, ... 11 hrs
Full version Tankman defence>tankman>Boundman/Snakeman
You just don't wanna accept manga facts coz you think Luffy alone with trash haki > Cracker or ~ kata or Top tiers.
Luffy couldnt get through coz his CoA and skills were below Cracker. Currently he will easily handle Cracker.
Boundman defence is better than snakeman? Coz both were trash at defenceLuffy is the one who had matchup advantage vs Cracker:
Food
Rain
Boundman is nonsense, AP doesnt make you win if your skills and haki sucks
"Doffy cut law arm" remind me again where did Law coat his whole arms like Luffy does? Law only coat his hands. Cracker sliced Luffy coated arm
"Cracker hide and sneak attack" wrong. Ge fought g4 boundman intensively head on. Go cry to Oda.
Luffy is the one who ran, ate, ... 11 hrs
Full version Tankman defence>tankman>Boundman/Snakeman
You just don't wanna accept manga facts coz you think Luffy alone with trash haki > Cracker or ~ kata or Top tiers.
Luffy couldnt get through coz his CoA and skills were below Cracker. Currently he will easily handle Cracker.
As I said, the only reason Luffy would ever use Tankman or Snakeman is at a matchup disadvantage. Snakeman sacrifices defence, while Tankman completely sacrifices his mobiliy.
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Mate, Cracker instigated this attack. Luffy counterattacked and Cracker got bodied.
Oh my god...
This was base Luffy vs. Katakuri at the end of it
This was base Luffy vs. Cracker
Cracker wore out Luffy's stamina (or Luffy wore out his stamina). His HP damage was minimal. Katakuri actually did damage (HP).
As I said, you have no argument here. Oda decided Tankman -> Cracker, Snakeman -> Katakuri. That means Boundman wasn't suited for them. But Boundman is his main form, and most well rounded form in terms of speed, power and defence.
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J
Of course Boundman is better defensively. Snakeman is skinny. Boundman is like Fuusen.
As I said, the only reason Luffy would ever use Tankman or Snakeman is at a matchup disadvantage. Snakeman sacrifices defence, while Tankman completely sacrifices his mobiliy.
Mate, Cracker instigated this attack. Luffy counterattacked and Cracker got bodied.
Oh my god...
This was base Luffy vs. Katakuri at the end of it
This was base Luffy vs. Cracker
Cracker wore out Luffy's stamina (or Luffy wore out his stamina). His HP damage was minimal. Katakuri actually did damage (HP).
As I said, you have no argument here. Oda decided Tankman -> Cracker, Snakeman -> Katakuri. That means Boundman wasn't suited for them. But Boundman is his main form, and most well rounded form in terms of speed, power and defence.
As I said, the only reason Luffy would ever use Tankman or Snakeman is at a matchup disadvantage. Snakeman sacrifices defence, while Tankman completely sacrifices his mobiliy.
Post automatically merged:
Mate, Cracker instigated this attack. Luffy counterattacked and Cracker got bodied.
Oh my god...
This was base Luffy vs. Katakuri at the end of it
This was base Luffy vs. Cracker
Cracker wore out Luffy's stamina (or Luffy wore out his stamina). His HP damage was minimal. Katakuri actually did damage (HP).
As I said, you have no argument here. Oda decided Tankman -> Cracker, Snakeman -> Katakuri. That means Boundman wasn't suited for them. But Boundman is his main form, and most well rounded form in terms of speed, power and defence.
I swear you have issues.
Did Cracker fight boundman intensively head on or not? Yes he didDid Luffy eat and counter cracker df for 11 hrs or not? He did
Did Luffy win because he sent Cracker through clones or not? He did
Tell me again where did Cracker have advantage? Just admit it. Boundman is not that Great as you wanted it to be.
It cant beat Cracker! Or Katakuri or Kaido or BM without top tier haki.
Boundman can only beat Doffy.
All this wanking of Cracker is based on whether his DF, that spawns endless mass in the form of armored warriors separate from himself, is directly comparable to anyone else's which is generally more directly linked to an individual body.
And in that one simply has to recognize that there is a certain difference there to be able to multiply oneself - limitlessly - at the same base level (without compromise of an individual warrior's agility that isn't more than made up for by being able to completely swamp or surround an enemy in numbers), and without signficant cost to stamina or endurance, compared to having all strength and ability centred in a body, and needing to use strength and ability at one's personal cost of stamina and endurance.
Even if one finds mixed cases, Cracker remains an extreme case of that first sort.
In that sense, it is nothing else than a weaselly trick of vague semantics to compare Cracker's "defense" 1-on-1 to someone's strength (when there is a 14-on-1 or something like that), let alone if it either needs a specific counter or close to top-tier strength (above YC) to break through everything at once, and if that "defense" has nothing to do with Cracker himself as an individual, and is basically a mountain of armored mass completely separate from himself.
What's more Cracker was clearly overextending himself, and spamming warriors non-stop (still at relatively low cost to himself, since that is how DF's work compared to other activities) is not a normal way for him to use his "defense" (which would actually be kind of a stupid style).
And in that one simply has to recognize that there is a certain difference there to be able to multiply oneself - limitlessly - at the same base level (without compromise of an individual warrior's agility that isn't more than made up for by being able to completely swamp or surround an enemy in numbers), and without signficant cost to stamina or endurance, compared to having all strength and ability centred in a body, and needing to use strength and ability at one's personal cost of stamina and endurance.
Even if one finds mixed cases, Cracker remains an extreme case of that first sort.
In that sense, it is nothing else than a weaselly trick of vague semantics to compare Cracker's "defense" 1-on-1 to someone's strength (when there is a 14-on-1 or something like that), let alone if it either needs a specific counter or close to top-tier strength (above YC) to break through everything at once, and if that "defense" has nothing to do with Cracker himself as an individual, and is basically a mountain of armored mass completely separate from himself.
What's more Cracker was clearly overextending himself, and spamming warriors non-stop (still at relatively low cost to himself, since that is how DF's work compared to other activities) is not a normal way for him to use his "defense" (which would actually be kind of a stupid style).
To answer the question without reading the thread, I think most readers just...don’t give a shit after a certain point. It’s enough to know (at least for me) that Luffy is immensely powerful as are his crew mates, they often come up against stronger opponents who get defeated either by our protagonists reaching a new level or straight PIS, and they’ll progress as far or often as necessary. I come to One Piece for the art, the humor, and the rich abundance of unsolved mysteries, not to argue whether Zoro or Sanji, two guys with totally different fighting styles/personalities, is “better” than the other.
No, no he didn't. That's the point. He was hiding and occasionally would peak his head, and go back to hiding again. Your arguments go like
"Capone tanked a Yonko's attacks. Boundman Luffy didn't. Capone > Boundman Luffy".
That's not how powerscaling works. I don't scale Luffy based on Cracker did this, Katakuri did that. I scale him on Katakuri's words, and the portrayal he got from being the only one to ever break out of Doffy's strings. A feat no Yonko Commander can accomplish with brute power. Both put him at "YC1" or at least >= YC2s.
Ok...then what's the issue? No need to post if you don't care about power scaling.
"Capone tanked a Yonko's attacks. Boundman Luffy didn't. Capone > Boundman Luffy".
That's not how powerscaling works. I don't scale Luffy based on Cracker did this, Katakuri did that. I scale him on Katakuri's words, and the portrayal he got from being the only one to ever break out of Doffy's strings. A feat no Yonko Commander can accomplish with brute power. Both put him at "YC1" or at least >= YC2s.
Ok...then what's the issue? No need to post if you don't care about power scaling.