Character Discussion Why is it so hard for some of you to accept that Sanji is a tragedy post the TS, Oda absolutely butchered this char...
H
I'm not watching it and you are among the worst if you think Sanji didn't got worse after timeskip and probably the worst for believing he actually improved.
My whole argument is about what majority of people think and then you came with your personal opinion trying to debate that.
Again majority of people agree that post-timeskip is worse. If they are wrong(that isn't even a possibility since is their opinion) or not doesn't matter. For majority of fans One Piece got worse. Period.
The 3 main arcs of timeskip have tha pace problem. Your argument just reinforces that. And Wano was just the worse with that problem.
Those 3 arcs(except the first) are focused on saving Ace. Not focused on Luffy. If you wnat to say that those arcs are focused on Luffy then every arc is focused on Luffy with the same logic. The arcs have less chapters so they are not the same as Dressrosa, WCI and Wano.
So you just went back to agree that pre-timeskip is more focused therefore less chapters while post-timeskip Oda is adding so much irrelevant plot that he ruins the pacing.
Irrelevant argument about having more storylines the closer we get to the end. This would make sense if Oda was setting up unfinished plots in the previous arcs. We do have some like now we are learning about DF's origins, replications but we also have to learn about black blades and ancient weapons... But this has nothing to do with Oda adding irrelevant storylines in each arc like he did a lot in Wano. As you said yourself One Piece pretimeskip was much more focused on Luffy and Strawhats and none have those complains, everybody agreed that already had a terrific world building and that sense of living world you are talking about.
Since timeskip New World seems much smaller because we travelled through fewer islands. When we spent 100+ chapters in the same island when back at pre-timeskip we could have visited 2 or 3(even more at East Blue). And the characteres we met in those islands were actually RELEVANTS for the plot of the arc.
No one missed anything about pre-timeskip. Any thread people says pre-timeskip was better, perfect or near perfection. When talking about best arcs the ones who shinies are enies lobby, marineford, alabasta. Some people even talk about Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island and Wano but be sure is about the fights and not the story of the arc.
The weak argument that reading manga weekly makes it worse than reading in full volumes where they are "intent to". Reading weekly doesn't change the story. Is just the same. The points I'm making here won't be changed except the pace which to me is the minor problem.
So at least now you agree that Robin disappeared from whole timeskip until the mid/end of Wano when she fought Black Maria. How did Robin shined in Dressrosa? She didn't nothing impressive or supported anyone to do something impressive.
Again I'm not asking to develop all strawhats every arc I'm just pointing how many arcs each got no development at all. I'm also not scalling the arc as good as the characteres are developed otherwise I would never had Marineford in my top 2 since there is only Luffy there.
Sanji is introduced beating up a marine. This shined much more than he being a terrific cook. Sanji isn't nice he just don't want people starve because he knows the feeling. Again he beated up a marine in his introduction he is not nice.
I'm a Zoro fan so I don't know what you are talking about being jealous. Sanji is more badass than Zoro in a clever way not nice. He is badass with his Mr. Princ moments that Oda completely killed post-timeskip and you don't even remember they exist. Never again Sanji is saving the whole crew like he did at Arlong Park, Alabasta, Skypea and Enies Lobby.
Sanji development is fighting since he is a well established monster trio. He has to keep up close to Luffy and Zoro and not from the rest of the crew. Sanji started WCI beating his brother, fighting his dad. The whole plot of Sanji in WCI is how he is a failure for not being as strong as his brothers and his own father got surprised when he beated Yonji. That's fight hype, to show his father that he overcame his brothers by his own means.
Again, I'm Zoro fan. Zoro cried when he lost to Mihawk. Luffy cried when he lost his brother. Luffy cried(or wanted to cry) when Usopp left and came back(Usopp cried too). No one every complained about that. I also never read a complain about Sanji's crying learning the truth about Pudding or saying to Luffy that he wants to set sail with him again. You are inventing things up because you don't even have an argument. But anyway, Sanji is not nice. He beat up people and is a pervert.
You are a bit wrong here because Sanji fanbase just say Sanji got worse because of his gags and pervert moments which I don't care that much since pre-timeskip Oda already killed him as a gentleman. My issue with Sanji was his new backstory and Wano. He wanting to hitting women (which his fanbase think it would be cool)... I'm against all that but his fanbase actually thinks WCI and Wano was good for Sanji.
Zoro also don't like to fight women. So he is not a fighter in your logic since he cares with who he fights. Sanji didn't evolved since he never really hit that woman. Oda made him went crazy about his power up when in reallity nothing changed besides getting stronger. Poor writting it is.
Sanji vs Luffy was completely a try of Oda setting a parallel of Usopp vs Luffy but showing how Luffy evolved as a captain. Yes, Luffy evolved as a captain since would make no sense him fighting Sanji but for Sanji it was a disaster. Oda destroyed Sanji character to show how Luffy was a better leader than before.
And I'm not trying to make Sanji look like a Zoro 2.0 at all. You are the one inventing ridiculous arguments that I never made because you don't know what to say anymore.
You have to chose if Sanji was faster or not in WCI. "Germa fast" was never shown until that moment. Sanji beat up Yonji and only lost by his father because he didn't wanted to hit that clone(like he ever had a problem like that before). For 99% of the arc the Germa didn't showed to be better than Sanji at any point. But out of nowhere Oda came up with "you are too slow you need a raid suit as a power up for Wano" and then he destroyed that power up because Sanji fanbase didn't liked he needed a weapon to become stronger while Zoro and Luffy was just improving haki and getting naturally stronger.
Just to be clear since you have difficult with that and is constantly making up things that I don't say. I was perfectly fine with Sanji's raid suit power up. It was a good power up, different of that gene bullshit he got.
My bad I thought that you were intelligente enough to understand sarcasm and irony but I won't ever repeat that same mistake with you again.
Sanji never had a issue with becoming a monster in first place. So any develop he could have with his decision is pointless since he never had to develop anything in first place. This is like saying you have to sacrifice yourself for someone and then you don't sacrifice because that person doesn't need your help but you call that as a develop anyway. It is stupid.
Just to be clear, he was never becoming a monster in first place. He had nothing to avoid.
My whole argument is about what majority of people think and then you came with your personal opinion trying to debate that.
Again majority of people agree that post-timeskip is worse. If they are wrong(that isn't even a possibility since is their opinion) or not doesn't matter. For majority of fans One Piece got worse. Period.
The 3 main arcs of timeskip have tha pace problem. Your argument just reinforces that. And Wano was just the worse with that problem.
Those 3 arcs(except the first) are focused on saving Ace. Not focused on Luffy. If you wnat to say that those arcs are focused on Luffy then every arc is focused on Luffy with the same logic. The arcs have less chapters so they are not the same as Dressrosa, WCI and Wano.
So you just went back to agree that pre-timeskip is more focused therefore less chapters while post-timeskip Oda is adding so much irrelevant plot that he ruins the pacing.
Irrelevant argument about having more storylines the closer we get to the end. This would make sense if Oda was setting up unfinished plots in the previous arcs. We do have some like now we are learning about DF's origins, replications but we also have to learn about black blades and ancient weapons... But this has nothing to do with Oda adding irrelevant storylines in each arc like he did a lot in Wano. As you said yourself One Piece pretimeskip was much more focused on Luffy and Strawhats and none have those complains, everybody agreed that already had a terrific world building and that sense of living world you are talking about.
Since timeskip New World seems much smaller because we travelled through fewer islands. When we spent 100+ chapters in the same island when back at pre-timeskip we could have visited 2 or 3(even more at East Blue). And the characteres we met in those islands were actually RELEVANTS for the plot of the arc.
No one missed anything about pre-timeskip. Any thread people says pre-timeskip was better, perfect or near perfection. When talking about best arcs the ones who shinies are enies lobby, marineford, alabasta. Some people even talk about Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island and Wano but be sure is about the fights and not the story of the arc.
The weak argument that reading manga weekly makes it worse than reading in full volumes where they are "intent to". Reading weekly doesn't change the story. Is just the same. The points I'm making here won't be changed except the pace which to me is the minor problem.
- When is Usopp shining in pre-timeskip? He doesn't. He have some good moments but that not shining. He only really shinied at Dressrosa when people called him a God. He doesn't have anything like that in pre-timeskip.
- What was Usopp role in Fishmen Island? I don't even remember him doing anything than showing his new abilities in the fight.
- Yes he had a great moment and another good one(CoO) but no fight.
- Elbaf is not coming and there is no reason to believe Usopp will every shiny again if he didn't at Wano
- I didn't said her name but I said he had a fight against her which no one remembers.
- What Brook did at Whole Cake Island has nothing to do with his bond with Strawhats. He never had a issue with that. He bond grew when he decided to drop his Rockstar career to set sail again but not at Whole Cake Island. The way Strawhat reacted in front of an emperor was ridiculous. It is cool that Brook tried to fought because he had no option but how Jinbei disrespect Big Mom just make Luffy current position as a mere Yonko seems pitful.
- Brook didn't went through any traumatic event. No point in Whole Cake Island you are reading/watching you get that feeling. You do get that feeling with Usopp's pre-timeskip fights but not with Brook in Whole Cake Island.
So at least now you agree that Robin disappeared from whole timeskip until the mid/end of Wano when she fought Black Maria. How did Robin shined in Dressrosa? She didn't nothing impressive or supported anyone to do something impressive.
Again I'm not asking to develop all strawhats every arc I'm just pointing how many arcs each got no development at all. I'm also not scalling the arc as good as the characteres are developed otherwise I would never had Marineford in my top 2 since there is only Luffy there.
Alors.. sigh..
First, no. Oda is not forgetting that Sanji also fight. But no. Sanji is not introduced as a fighter but a COOK. He fight later. (close in term of story, but later in term of introduction)
Second, yeah. I do remember baratie and the first thematic of Sanji's character arc was not his willingness to fight, but the way he treated GIN. Meaning NICELY. IT's the ONE reason why Luffy had eye on him in the first place (go check if you don't believe me)
But I'm not surprised, you are part of the 70% that are willing to throw sanji's entire character to see him fight strong people just because you are jalouse that Zoro is the badass one. Well.. you are completely missing the point that sanji is actually more badass than Zoro. But in a nicer way.
And again, there was no fake hype, there was no hype at all for Sanji fighting, it was against his character development
And yes Sanji is THAT nice. I know you guys can't accept that men can cry because they are lost.. toxic masculinity is hard.. i know.
First, no. Oda is not forgetting that Sanji also fight. But no. Sanji is not introduced as a fighter but a COOK. He fight later. (close in term of story, but later in term of introduction)
Second, yeah. I do remember baratie and the first thematic of Sanji's character arc was not his willingness to fight, but the way he treated GIN. Meaning NICELY. IT's the ONE reason why Luffy had eye on him in the first place (go check if you don't believe me)
But I'm not surprised, you are part of the 70% that are willing to throw sanji's entire character to see him fight strong people just because you are jalouse that Zoro is the badass one. Well.. you are completely missing the point that sanji is actually more badass than Zoro. But in a nicer way.
And again, there was no fake hype, there was no hype at all for Sanji fighting, it was against his character development
And yes Sanji is THAT nice. I know you guys can't accept that men can cry because they are lost.. toxic masculinity is hard.. i know.
I'm a Zoro fan so I don't know what you are talking about being jealous. Sanji is more badass than Zoro in a clever way not nice. He is badass with his Mr. Princ moments that Oda completely killed post-timeskip and you don't even remember they exist. Never again Sanji is saving the whole crew like he did at Arlong Park, Alabasta, Skypea and Enies Lobby.
Sanji development is fighting since he is a well established monster trio. He has to keep up close to Luffy and Zoro and not from the rest of the crew. Sanji started WCI beating his brother, fighting his dad. The whole plot of Sanji in WCI is how he is a failure for not being as strong as his brothers and his own father got surprised when he beated Yonji. That's fight hype, to show his father that he overcame his brothers by his own means.
Again, I'm Zoro fan. Zoro cried when he lost to Mihawk. Luffy cried when he lost his brother. Luffy cried(or wanted to cry) when Usopp left and came back(Usopp cried too). No one every complained about that. I also never read a complain about Sanji's crying learning the truth about Pudding or saying to Luffy that he wants to set sail with him again. You are inventing things up because you don't even have an argument. But anyway, Sanji is not nice. He beat up people and is a pervert.
You are a bit wrong here because Sanji fanbase just say Sanji got worse because of his gags and pervert moments which I don't care that much since pre-timeskip Oda already killed him as a gentleman. My issue with Sanji was his new backstory and Wano. He wanting to hitting women (which his fanbase think it would be cool)... I'm against all that but his fanbase actually thinks WCI and Wano was good for Sanji.
Zoro also don't like to fight women. So he is not a fighter in your logic since he cares with who he fights. Sanji didn't evolved since he never really hit that woman. Oda made him went crazy about his power up when in reallity nothing changed besides getting stronger. Poor writting it is.
Sanji vs Luffy was completely a try of Oda setting a parallel of Usopp vs Luffy but showing how Luffy evolved as a captain. Yes, Luffy evolved as a captain since would make no sense him fighting Sanji but for Sanji it was a disaster. Oda destroyed Sanji character to show how Luffy was a better leader than before.
And I'm not trying to make Sanji look like a Zoro 2.0 at all. You are the one inventing ridiculous arguments that I never made because you don't know what to say anymore.
You have to chose if Sanji was faster or not in WCI. "Germa fast" was never shown until that moment. Sanji beat up Yonji and only lost by his father because he didn't wanted to hit that clone(like he ever had a problem like that before). For 99% of the arc the Germa didn't showed to be better than Sanji at any point. But out of nowhere Oda came up with "you are too slow you need a raid suit as a power up for Wano" and then he destroyed that power up because Sanji fanbase didn't liked he needed a weapon to become stronger while Zoro and Luffy was just improving haki and getting naturally stronger.
Just to be clear since you have difficult with that and is constantly making up things that I don't say. I was perfectly fine with Sanji's raid suit power up. It was a good power up, different of that gene bullshit he got.
My bad I thought that you were intelligente enough to understand sarcasm and irony but I won't ever repeat that same mistake with you again.
Sanji never had a issue with becoming a monster in first place. So any develop he could have with his decision is pointless since he never had to develop anything in first place. This is like saying you have to sacrifice yourself for someone and then you don't sacrifice because that person doesn't need your help but you call that as a develop anyway. It is stupid.
Just to be clear, he was never becoming a monster in first place. He had nothing to avoid.
You are not even worthy that I take my time to explain to you the beauty of Sanji's character post timeskip.. someone who can't even watch a 25 minutes video just because they are afraid of being proven wrong.. sigh.
Actually that's wrong.. the majority doesn't even follow site like WG.. the majority of fan love post time skip. :)
Still nop
Wow... the lack of understanding is mind bogeling here. Saying that the three pre timeskip arc are not focused on Luffy.. Damn..
Indeed, post time skip arc are denser in term of content.
I think you are not understanding my point (and storytelling) here. I'm not saying that the arc pre timeskip are more mocused (even tho the three pretimeskip arc are) I'm saying that their panelling structure is different. THe focus is the same mate.
Oda has just more content post time skip, but the content is still necessary. You don't understand what pacing is..
Sigh.. Why I bother talking to you.. you don't understand the subject here.. There are PLENTY of unfinished plot lines. You are not understanding that in story, the more you arrive to the end, the bigger the scale of the story must be. You are lacking the understanding that conflict in that instance will pass through a major set of plot line because in one Piece, the more the plot line, the more the thematic is reenforced.
And I won't add on that. You obviously don't understand that basic storytelling principle, so don't even bother trying to counter that I won't reply.
1. That's completely false. The world and worldbuilding feel much bigger since the timeskip.
2. Each character in an arc is relevant to the plot of the arc. But I understand how you can miss that looking at the way you look at stories.
Damn.. you really have no idea what people like. Just so you be aware, since the start of Wano, One Piece is in TT EACH week. That never happened before. All the more, new reader will always tend to say that they love whole cake and Wano. And not because of the fight.. but because of the story.
Some people actually understand the beauty of the story of Post time skip arc.
The famous missunderstanding that the more you take time to read a story, the more likely you are to build illegitimate expectation. I wrote a thread about that:
Reading weekly COMPLETELY CHANGE the way you approach a story. Its not the same AT ALL. And yes, the point you are making are completely baseless in front of a bingereading of the story. At least in majority.
This is not even a debate, it's a FACT.
Damn.. you literally forgot his own arc and his moment during Water seven.. you really have no idea of what you are talking... Shining means having a GOOD storytelling moment. It doesn't mean "feats". Feat are for powerscaler, feats are not good storytelling points.
I was talking about his fight.
There does not need to have a fight with such a shining moment.
Bold take.. Elbaf is most likely coming.
Again.. because you don't pay attention.
"has nothing to do with his bond with Strawhats" Meanwhile Brook is literally reaffirming his wish to be here for Sanji in front of a Yonko..
"The way Strawhat reacted in front of an emperor was ridiculous. It is cool that Brook tried to fought because he had no option but how Jinbei disrespect Big Mom just make Luffy current position as a mere Yonko seems pitful"
Yeah its not even a lack of understanding here.. undermining the coolest moment of the strawhat like that.. just because you can't understand their importance.. wow
Dude.. I don't think One Piece is made for you at this point. When you let the story pass over your head like that, I don't think that there are other option.
You don't even take the time to look at the story you are criticizing..
Where do you get that impression. Robin as always been here. She just shined during certain part of Dressrosa and during Wano. You really are bad at understanding that strawhat don't need to shine every single arc at every single moments.
You forgot the fact that it also happened pre time skip. Not to mention that having all the strawhat shine every arc is not a requierment to a good story as we had three arc without even a strawhat beside Luffy.
Only secondary to his first panels. Secondly. Sanji didn't shined because he was a good cook or because he fought, he shined because of the way he treated Gin.
Because he spilled food and was a d*ckhead. Also, beating up crypto fascist is always something nice.
And yes. Sanji's entire story is about him being a nice person. It doesn't mean he needs to be nice with those who waste food. You really don't understand Sanji at all
Well, my bad. I thought you were a deshoned Sanji fan.
But it actually explains a lot.. lmao
Yeah I won't even bother here. You don't even read the story.
He literally did that in whole cake. But I guess for you cooking is not a feat for you..
No wonder you think post time skip is bad.. you can't understand why nourrishing the ennemy is one of the kindest thing to do. And that Oda has hammered that thematic since the first Sanji arc pretimeskip.
You literally missed the point of that story.
Sanji is not a failure because he was not as strong as his brothers, Sanji is a failure in the eyes of his father because he wasn't a fighter at all and because he prefered nourrish mouses instead of fighting.
Oda literally told us through the story that Sanji prefered to be a nice person with cook ability rather than a fighter.. and the thing you took from that is "Sanji must become stronger"..
Like I said.. there must be something more with you than just the lack of understanding of the story.. you can't be that oblivious to an obvious plot point of the story...
Well.. you missed a lot of the complains
For other reasons...
Sanji only evolved because he accepted his body as part of himself. That's the point of his power Up.
Nop. Nothing in common.
You are literally focusing on Sanji as a fighter.. which is basically what most ZOro fan do.. this is just a try to make a Zoro 2.0. Sanji is not a fighter. He is a cook.
Yes it was, during the fight between Judge and Sanji. Look back at it again.
it's better that way.
Sure
Read the end of Wano again.
That was not the point of this storyline. But like Robin said:
"You don't have to understand why Sanji said the things he said."
You don't deserve to know either way.
Also. I won't reply back. You obviously don't care about the story at all. You just don't understand how storytelling work and how is constructed the character of Sanji so talking to you here is purely meaningless. So have fun on you own.
Actually that's wrong.. the majority doesn't even follow site like WG.. the majority of fan love post time skip. :)
Still nop
Wow... the lack of understanding is mind bogeling here. Saying that the three pre timeskip arc are not focused on Luffy.. Damn..
Indeed, post time skip arc are denser in term of content.
I think you are not understanding my point (and storytelling) here. I'm not saying that the arc pre timeskip are more mocused (even tho the three pretimeskip arc are) I'm saying that their panelling structure is different. THe focus is the same mate.
Oda has just more content post time skip, but the content is still necessary. You don't understand what pacing is..
Sigh.. Why I bother talking to you.. you don't understand the subject here.. There are PLENTY of unfinished plot lines. You are not understanding that in story, the more you arrive to the end, the bigger the scale of the story must be. You are lacking the understanding that conflict in that instance will pass through a major set of plot line because in one Piece, the more the plot line, the more the thematic is reenforced.
And I won't add on that. You obviously don't understand that basic storytelling principle, so don't even bother trying to counter that I won't reply.
1. That's completely false. The world and worldbuilding feel much bigger since the timeskip.
2. Each character in an arc is relevant to the plot of the arc. But I understand how you can miss that looking at the way you look at stories.
Damn.. you really have no idea what people like. Just so you be aware, since the start of Wano, One Piece is in TT EACH week. That never happened before. All the more, new reader will always tend to say that they love whole cake and Wano. And not because of the fight.. but because of the story.
Some people actually understand the beauty of the story of Post time skip arc.
The famous missunderstanding that the more you take time to read a story, the more likely you are to build illegitimate expectation. I wrote a thread about that:
Reading weekly COMPLETELY CHANGE the way you approach a story. Its not the same AT ALL. And yes, the point you are making are completely baseless in front of a bingereading of the story. At least in majority.
This is not even a debate, it's a FACT.
Damn.. you literally forgot his own arc and his moment during Water seven.. you really have no idea of what you are talking... Shining means having a GOOD storytelling moment. It doesn't mean "feats". Feat are for powerscaler, feats are not good storytelling points.
I was talking about his fight.
There does not need to have a fight with such a shining moment.
Bold take.. Elbaf is most likely coming.
Again.. because you don't pay attention.
"has nothing to do with his bond with Strawhats" Meanwhile Brook is literally reaffirming his wish to be here for Sanji in front of a Yonko..
"The way Strawhat reacted in front of an emperor was ridiculous. It is cool that Brook tried to fought because he had no option but how Jinbei disrespect Big Mom just make Luffy current position as a mere Yonko seems pitful"
Yeah its not even a lack of understanding here.. undermining the coolest moment of the strawhat like that.. just because you can't understand their importance.. wow
Dude.. I don't think One Piece is made for you at this point. When you let the story pass over your head like that, I don't think that there are other option.
You don't even take the time to look at the story you are criticizing..
Where do you get that impression. Robin as always been here. She just shined during certain part of Dressrosa and during Wano. You really are bad at understanding that strawhat don't need to shine every single arc at every single moments.
You forgot the fact that it also happened pre time skip. Not to mention that having all the strawhat shine every arc is not a requierment to a good story as we had three arc without even a strawhat beside Luffy.
Only secondary to his first panels. Secondly. Sanji didn't shined because he was a good cook or because he fought, he shined because of the way he treated Gin.
Because he spilled food and was a d*ckhead. Also, beating up crypto fascist is always something nice.
And yes. Sanji's entire story is about him being a nice person. It doesn't mean he needs to be nice with those who waste food. You really don't understand Sanji at all
Well, my bad. I thought you were a deshoned Sanji fan.
But it actually explains a lot.. lmao
Yeah I won't even bother here. You don't even read the story.
He literally did that in whole cake. But I guess for you cooking is not a feat for you..
No wonder you think post time skip is bad.. you can't understand why nourrishing the ennemy is one of the kindest thing to do. And that Oda has hammered that thematic since the first Sanji arc pretimeskip.
You literally missed the point of that story.
Sanji is not a failure because he was not as strong as his brothers, Sanji is a failure in the eyes of his father because he wasn't a fighter at all and because he prefered nourrish mouses instead of fighting.
Oda literally told us through the story that Sanji prefered to be a nice person with cook ability rather than a fighter.. and the thing you took from that is "Sanji must become stronger"..
Like I said.. there must be something more with you than just the lack of understanding of the story.. you can't be that oblivious to an obvious plot point of the story...
Well.. you missed a lot of the complains
For other reasons...
Sanji only evolved because he accepted his body as part of himself. That's the point of his power Up.
Nop. Nothing in common.
You are literally focusing on Sanji as a fighter.. which is basically what most ZOro fan do.. this is just a try to make a Zoro 2.0. Sanji is not a fighter. He is a cook.
Yes it was, during the fight between Judge and Sanji. Look back at it again.
it's better that way.Sure
Read the end of Wano again.
That was not the point of this storyline. But like Robin said:
"You don't have to understand why Sanji said the things he said."
You don't deserve to know either way.
Also. I won't reply back. You obviously don't care about the story at all. You just don't understand how storytelling work and how is constructed the character of Sanji so talking to you here is purely meaningless. So have fun on you own.
H
You are not even worthy that I take my time to explain to you the beauty of Sanji's character post timeskip.. someone who can't even watch a 25 minutes video just because they are afraid of being proven wrong.. sigh.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/wh...-better-pre-timeskip-or-post-timeskip.620091/
As I said if your logic says the 3 last arcs pre-timeskip are focused on Luffy then all arcs are focused on him.
Oda has less content in post timeskip. And then he is just dragging the previous content he had before that is the content which really matters to the end of the story. Even at Wano when he said he would answer many things and we would even know better what One Piece really is we didn't learned a shit at Wano and we don't have any clue of what One Piece may be.
You are the one who can't even read what you are replying because I'm talking about those unfinished plotlines in that quote. What isn't unfinished plotline is what Oda is adding through the New World that has nothing to do with tha main story and adds nothing to the arc.
Not it doesn't. New World we know Fishmen Island, Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Zou, WCI, Wano and now Egghead in like 475 chapters. Take the first 475 of One Piece we know Foosha Village, Shells Town, Orange Town, Syrup Village, Cocoyasi Village, Longuetown, Whiskey Peak, Little Garden, Drum Island, Alabasta, Jaya, Skypea, Long Ring Long Island, Water 7, Ennies Lobby and Thriller Bark. And I may have forgot something and I'm just talking about Islands Strawhats visited(more like Luffy visited).
And there are tons and tons of irrelevant characters on the big 3 I'm complaning about. Specially after Punk Hazard almost all islands visited is a part of Law's plan to take down Kaido so any character of that island is already irrelevant since they already have the objective of taking down Doflamingo, reunite with the crew, saving Sanji and taking down Kaido.
People are only hyping the fight of Wano. No one gives a shit about lore. One Piece is on TT because it is easy to make money with content on social media. But the reality is that sales are dropping constantly each year.
Some people make money with it. They have to like it. Just like Mr Morj wanks One Piece in his main channel but shits on it on his discussion/live channel.
Then try to tell me why I'm following One Piece weekly since Punk Hazard and never complained until WCI? Even Dressrosa that the pace problem really hit I had 0 complain about it.
But of course you not only are a god of writting but you also know what other people like/feel better than themselves.
He literally did that in whole cake. But I guess for you cooking is not a feat for you..
No wonder you think post time skip is bad.. you can't understand why nourrishing the ennemy is one of the kindest thing to do. And that Oda has hammered that thematic since the first Sanji arc pretimeskip.
No wonder you think post time skip is bad.. you can't understand why nourrishing the ennemy is one of the kindest thing to do. And that Oda has hammered that thematic since the first Sanji arc pretimeskip.
He restored Big Mom so she could go back hunting Strawhats. You are the one who is needing a full rereading. Or maybe reading all in a once make you add stuff that didn't happened like you are constantly doing with my arguments?
Since you brought up parallel with Baratie let's remember that Sanji fed the guys who immediately started to attack the restaurant. Same thing at WCI. Sanji didn't saved anyone but Luffy or his family.
You are trying to make a fucking cake like a Mr.Prince moment just show how shit your understanding of the manga is.
Shining means being the MVP or close to it at least. Having good moment is not shining. Kyros had good moments in Dressrosa no one is saying he shined. Usopp only truly shined at Dressrosa. Shining is Sanji having Mr. Prince moments. Zoro Nothing Happened moment. Zoro blocking Hakai. Brook stealing Red Poneglyph. Not Usopp having his backstory and defeating some weak weird guy.
So Usopp is a fighter and Sanji is not?
Try spoilers.
Her name is completely irrelevant. I talked about the fight and you ignored. You are the one not paying attention.
"has nothing to do with his bond with Strawhats" Meanwhile Brook is literally reaffirming his wish to be here for Sanji in front of a Yonko..
"The way Strawhat reacted in front of an emperor was ridiculous. It is cool that Brook tried to fought because he had no option but how Jinbei disrespect Big Mom just make Luffy current position as a mere Yonko seems pitful"
Yeah its not even a lack of understanding here.. undermining the coolest moment of the strawhat like that.. just because you can't understand their importance.. wow
Dude.. I don't think One Piece is made for you at this point. When you let the story pass over your head like that, I don't think that there are other option.
"The way Strawhat reacted in front of an emperor was ridiculous. It is cool that Brook tried to fought because he had no option but how Jinbei disrespect Big Mom just make Luffy current position as a mere Yonko seems pitful"
Yeah its not even a lack of understanding here.. undermining the coolest moment of the strawhat like that.. just because you can't understand their importance.. wow
Dude.. I don't think One Piece is made for you at this point. When you let the story pass over your head like that, I don't think that there are other option.
And if you think having Jinbei calling Big Mom a mere Yonko a good writting then you are not following One Piece because Luffy after beating Kaido just became a MERE Yonko too.
Oh my god... So dramatic. Pedro... The guy I met yesterday... And probably will show up in the future...
What she did at Dressrosa? And guess what she did at Wano? She had a fight! She needed a fight to shiny. All that plot around Kaido and Big Mom about she reading Poneglyphs was meaningless. CP0 running to captured her was meaningless. Oda just forgot about that.
As always you are the one pretending I'm asking for all strawhats to shiny every arc. I'm not. You are making those arguments not me.
He didn't shined at all. No one cares if he treated Gin nicely or not.
Just confirmed how woke you are. Not that I didn't knew it before. Is okay to hurt some people, that's is actually nice if they don't agree with us or do something that we don't like. Specially if you call the person fascist even that he isn't and you don't even know what that means. So woke of you.
Yeah I won't even bother here. You don't even read the story.
And let me be clear I like Oden, doesn't think he is perfect as he made some really dumb decisions but I like him.
To his family he is a failure because he is not strong. Is all about that being strong. Only his sister is saying those nonsense of being kind which is a lie. Sanji became a fighter anyway.
Sanji is always fighting Zoro, fighting people, being rude to them, agressive.
You are the one imagine a story that doesn't exist just like you imagine arguments I didn't made.
No. He simply didn't wanted to use Raid Suit anymore because he thought he would become emotionless like his brothers and would end up hurting woman. He didn't accepted a shit. His power up is completely illogical.
He is a fighter. He was fighting since he was at Baratie. He is part of Monster Trio. Sanji fans are the ones who focus more on him being a figther but you will just say they don't understand Sanji. You will simply label people with anything like this was a valid argument "Oh you say that because you are a Zoro fan", 'Oh you are a Sanji fan but doesn't understand him".
Sanji matched Judge strenght and speed with no problem. That's why Judge had to rely on his clones to attack him.
I really appreciate if you don't reply back since you was the most annyoing person I ever had the displeasure of debating. Never interacted with such a human being was so shameless of lying and inventing things that I didn't talked about it just to have an argument. Not only that but excessive smug of a skil you don't have. In reallity you suck on what you think you have the best which is interpretation and writting knowledge.
Actually.. Yes. Not that i'm am the best, there is always better. But I have noticed that around those WG plains, I do have a better understanding of One Piece than those who try to do analysis. Especially when the majority say something as ludicrous as "Oda destroyed Sanji post Timeskip" and that's not only because I effectively had special courses on the subject but also because I spent half of my life analysing One Piece.
But don't believe me.. again.. try to watch the video. Put it on x2 if you want, will be faster, at least you will avoid me doing you a sum up.
Last time I give you the link:
Next time will be a sum up.
And the people on the planet believe in something that doesn't exist. It doesn't make it right because it's a majority.
New readers tends to love post time skip as they are not influenced by the fans or the week to week pace.
Actually this is wrong (this is something I forgot to mention). Wano's panelling structure was very similar to post time skip. That's one of the reason why this arc is so good in fact. Oda let himself breeze a little during that Arc.
No you didn't understand. I meant that because there are 3 entire arc before the time skip and BECAUSE those arc are specifically focused on Luffy (and therefore have less secondary plotline) they feel like they are faster and stronger, but the reality is: those narration are the same.
And by secondary plot I mean secondary character plot: For example in WCI it's the recuperation of the poneglyph or the conquering of the mirror world by Chopper and Carrot. In wano it's some of the fight too (the strawhat fight for example or the story of Yamato), pretimeskip it was the story of the different strawhat during each arcs.
Arlong Park also had secondary plot. It was the debarking of the strawhat (Zoro and Usopp) or the fight of Zoro, sanji and Usopp.
You need to understand that the closer we get to the end, the bigger the arena of the story will be. Meaning that we will have more and more storylines. Of course Oda could only focus on Luffy, but the story wouldn't feel as lively as the theme wouldn't be as impactfull at the end of each arcs. But you also need to understand that there are no storyplot that are useless. Some are indeed weaker than other - granted - but all of them serv a purpose.
The realitythat you might not have noticed, is that since the time skip, the world of One Piece because a LOT MORE lively. The amount of characters and location are now insane and we are not now focusing on single character like Norland, but on entire families and groups that shape entire countries.
This change is something the fan missed. Pretimeskip was cool of course and had amazing arc, but post time skip is were the story really shines.
And yet Water Seven and Ennie Lobby have a lot of secondary plot as well. The reality is that secondary plot is not something problematic it only make the story shine brighter in the end. But I get that on a week to week basis, it can be frustrating. That's why I suggest readers who don't like post time skip, to read One Piece in volume rather than scans.
1. You forgot the fact that Usopp is one of the character with the most shining moment pretimeskip so its only logical that Oda let him breeze a little.
2. Usopp had a role in Fishmen even if he wasn't forfront and like all strawhat shined during his fight.
3. Usopp was one that had the best shining moment in dressrosa
4. Usopp might be the one with the best shining moment in the future as Elbaf is coming.
So no. Usopp is good, don't worry about him and Oda is not doing a poor job with him.
1. Yes he did by winning against Jora.
You don't remember this fight because you don't pay enough attention that's all mate.
2. What Brook went through whole cake was HUGE for his charater has it shows how much his bond has grown with the strawhat and how strawhat can react in front of an emperor.
3. Now.. like all the strawhat Brook's arc was thriller bark, now Brook will only evolve in the subtext. Like I said, Brook evolved during Whole cake, he went through a traumatic event that may be triggering a evolution in the future.
You really need to understand that One Piece is not about having the strawhat all evolve at the same time and have a shining moment in everyarc.
What is this quest for character development ? The development of Robin comes at the end of Wano during her fight with black Maria, during Dressrosa, Robin shined as a support character.
EVEN pretimeskip the strawhats weren't developped each arc bro.. You need to stop thinking that way. Development of the strawhats is:
1. Most of the time subtle unless the arc is really focusing on one specific character
2. It doesn't happen every arc
3. Is not a scale to gauge of the quality of an arc. For that you should be looking at the story.
Alors.. sigh..
First, no. Oda is not forgetting that Sanji also fight. But no. Sanji is not introduced as a fighter but a COOK. He fight later. (close in term of story, but later in term of introduction)
Second, yeah. I do remember baratie and the first thematic of Sanji's character arc was not his willingness to fight, but the way he treated GIN. Meaning NICELY. IT's the ONE reason why Luffy had eye on him in the first place (go check if you don't believe me)
But I'm not surprised, you are part of the 70% that are willing to throw sanji's entire character to see him fight strong people just because you are jalouse that Zoro is the badass one. Well.. you are completely missing the point that sanji is actually more badass than Zoro. But in a nicer way.
And again, there was no fake hype, there was no hype at all for Sanji fighting, it was against his character development
And yes Sanji is THAT nice. I know you guys can't accept that men can cry because they are lost.. toxic masculinity is hard.. i know.
I won't pretend. Thinking that Sanji should have a fight in whole cake is complete ignorance of:
- Storytelling
- Sanji's character
- Oda's thematic and storylines
- Common sence.
No. it's just that in that case, I do understand more and you understand less :)
Actually most of Sanji's fanbase is agreeing with you as shown by the poll. Most of you don't deserve Sanji.
A fighter doesn't care who he will fight.What oda is writting here is that Sanji is starting to question himself as a fighter and as a person. So of xcourse he will think about this. Plus he never wished he could hit a women, he was just in a situation were he didn't knew who he was. And he evolved. He learned by himself that no matter the consequences, he will stick to his credo and be someone good. That's what real good people do.
Yes it is and no it destroy nothing. To know why, WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO. Or else I will makeyou a sum up, but either way you will understand why. you just don't understand sanji's character and think that its a Zoro 2.0 with curly eyebrow and blond hair. Sanji is NOT Zoro.
Also this had nothing to do with the fight between usopp and Luffy the thematic were completely different.. Damn.. thelack of understanding is amazing here.
Yes I can't, I just don't waste my time. Watch the damn video. If you won't I'll make a sum up that you will have to read anyway.
Which was was but not "germa fast". A lot of people can disappear. Oven was just very slow. Plus you need to understand that Sanji was tired and was holding Luffy while avoiding canon shot and pistol shot..
Wtf.. you just said to me that I was right and I waas wrong in the same paragraph.. You quite something..
But you lack the understanding that Sanji made this descision despite the fact that he was thinking that he was becoming a monster. What Sanji proved to himself was not to stop himself from becoming a monster, it was to do anything to avoid becoming one because of the germa suit.. again.. you don't understand sanji's character.
That's why I suggest you to watch the video. Because I'm not the only one here who understand Sanji as a character.
But don't believe me.. again.. try to watch the video. Put it on x2 if you want, will be faster, at least you will avoid me doing you a sum up.
Last time I give you the link:
Next time will be a sum up.
And the people on the planet believe in something that doesn't exist. It doesn't make it right because it's a majority.
New readers tends to love post time skip as they are not influenced by the fans or the week to week pace.
Actually this is wrong (this is something I forgot to mention). Wano's panelling structure was very similar to post time skip. That's one of the reason why this arc is so good in fact. Oda let himself breeze a little during that Arc.
No you didn't understand. I meant that because there are 3 entire arc before the time skip and BECAUSE those arc are specifically focused on Luffy (and therefore have less secondary plotline) they feel like they are faster and stronger, but the reality is: those narration are the same.
And by secondary plot I mean secondary character plot: For example in WCI it's the recuperation of the poneglyph or the conquering of the mirror world by Chopper and Carrot. In wano it's some of the fight too (the strawhat fight for example or the story of Yamato), pretimeskip it was the story of the different strawhat during each arcs.
Arlong Park also had secondary plot. It was the debarking of the strawhat (Zoro and Usopp) or the fight of Zoro, sanji and Usopp.
You need to understand that the closer we get to the end, the bigger the arena of the story will be. Meaning that we will have more and more storylines. Of course Oda could only focus on Luffy, but the story wouldn't feel as lively as the theme wouldn't be as impactfull at the end of each arcs. But you also need to understand that there are no storyplot that are useless. Some are indeed weaker than other - granted - but all of them serv a purpose.
The realitythat you might not have noticed, is that since the time skip, the world of One Piece because a LOT MORE lively. The amount of characters and location are now insane and we are not now focusing on single character like Norland, but on entire families and groups that shape entire countries.
This change is something the fan missed. Pretimeskip was cool of course and had amazing arc, but post time skip is were the story really shines.
And yet Water Seven and Ennie Lobby have a lot of secondary plot as well. The reality is that secondary plot is not something problematic it only make the story shine brighter in the end. But I get that on a week to week basis, it can be frustrating. That's why I suggest readers who don't like post time skip, to read One Piece in volume rather than scans.
1. You forgot the fact that Usopp is one of the character with the most shining moment pretimeskip so its only logical that Oda let him breeze a little.
2. Usopp had a role in Fishmen even if he wasn't forfront and like all strawhat shined during his fight.
3. Usopp was one that had the best shining moment in dressrosa
4. Usopp might be the one with the best shining moment in the future as Elbaf is coming.
So no. Usopp is good, don't worry about him and Oda is not doing a poor job with him.
1. Yes he did by winning against Jora.
You don't remember this fight because you don't pay enough attention that's all mate.
2. What Brook went through whole cake was HUGE for his charater has it shows how much his bond has grown with the strawhat and how strawhat can react in front of an emperor.
3. Now.. like all the strawhat Brook's arc was thriller bark, now Brook will only evolve in the subtext. Like I said, Brook evolved during Whole cake, he went through a traumatic event that may be triggering a evolution in the future.
You really need to understand that One Piece is not about having the strawhat all evolve at the same time and have a shining moment in everyarc.
What is this quest for character development ? The development of Robin comes at the end of Wano during her fight with black Maria, during Dressrosa, Robin shined as a support character.
EVEN pretimeskip the strawhats weren't developped each arc bro.. You need to stop thinking that way. Development of the strawhats is:
1. Most of the time subtle unless the arc is really focusing on one specific character
2. It doesn't happen every arc
3. Is not a scale to gauge of the quality of an arc. For that you should be looking at the story.
Alors.. sigh..
First, no. Oda is not forgetting that Sanji also fight. But no. Sanji is not introduced as a fighter but a COOK. He fight later. (close in term of story, but later in term of introduction)
Second, yeah. I do remember baratie and the first thematic of Sanji's character arc was not his willingness to fight, but the way he treated GIN. Meaning NICELY. IT's the ONE reason why Luffy had eye on him in the first place (go check if you don't believe me)
But I'm not surprised, you are part of the 70% that are willing to throw sanji's entire character to see him fight strong people just because you are jalouse that Zoro is the badass one. Well.. you are completely missing the point that sanji is actually more badass than Zoro. But in a nicer way.
And again, there was no fake hype, there was no hype at all for Sanji fighting, it was against his character development
And yes Sanji is THAT nice. I know you guys can't accept that men can cry because they are lost.. toxic masculinity is hard.. i know.
I won't pretend. Thinking that Sanji should have a fight in whole cake is complete ignorance of:
- Storytelling
- Sanji's character
- Oda's thematic and storylines
- Common sence.
No. it's just that in that case, I do understand more and you understand less :)
Actually most of Sanji's fanbase is agreeing with you as shown by the poll. Most of you don't deserve Sanji.
A fighter doesn't care who he will fight.What oda is writting here is that Sanji is starting to question himself as a fighter and as a person. So of xcourse he will think about this. Plus he never wished he could hit a women, he was just in a situation were he didn't knew who he was. And he evolved. He learned by himself that no matter the consequences, he will stick to his credo and be someone good. That's what real good people do.
Yes it is and no it destroy nothing. To know why, WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO. Or else I will makeyou a sum up, but either way you will understand why. you just don't understand sanji's character and think that its a Zoro 2.0 with curly eyebrow and blond hair. Sanji is NOT Zoro.
Also this had nothing to do with the fight between usopp and Luffy the thematic were completely different.. Damn.. thelack of understanding is amazing here.
Yes I can't, I just don't waste my time. Watch the damn video. If you won't I'll make a sum up that you will have to read anyway.
Which was was but not "germa fast". A lot of people can disappear. Oven was just very slow. Plus you need to understand that Sanji was tired and was holding Luffy while avoiding canon shot and pistol shot..
Wtf.. you just said to me that I was right and I waas wrong in the same paragraph.. You quite something..
But you lack the understanding that Sanji made this descision despite the fact that he was thinking that he was becoming a monster. What Sanji proved to himself was not to stop himself from becoming a monster, it was to do anything to avoid becoming one because of the germa suit.. again.. you don't understand sanji's character.
That's why I suggest you to watch the video. Because I'm not the only one here who understand Sanji as a character.
THE TOP 10 CHARACTERS IN ALL OF WANO WITH THE MOST APPEARANCES!
After Post TS, only character development was written for Sanji among SHs.
Sanji got two backstory and one arc.
Except Fishman Island , sanjis development was great to me. During the time skip, every straw hats members got trained place where they can like . Robin-Dragon , Mihawk-Zoro , Nami- Weather something bla bla. Only Sanji was sent place where he hate most . And oda preferred to depict his character deformation like that in the FI arcs . Not good but understandable.
Lastly , dog case. Sanji always acted for Nami and Robin or one girl. Why was it such a problem when you said it verbally? Meaningless to me .
- 1-Monkey D. Luffy – 1689
- 2-Kaido – 989
- 3-Roronoa Zoro – 922
- 4-Kin’emon – 684
- 5-Kozuki Momonosuke – 674
- 6-Sanji – 573
- 7-O-Kiku – 484
- 8-Yamato – 479
- 9-Charlotte Linlin (Big Mom) – 471
- 10-Kozuki Oden – 458
- Before Wano :
- Monkey D. Luffy 15147
- Nami 7302
- Sanji 6636
- Usopp 6552
- Roronoa Zoro 6307
After Post TS, only character development was written for Sanji among SHs.
Sanji got two backstory and one arc.
Except Fishman Island , sanjis development was great to me. During the time skip, every straw hats members got trained place where they can like . Robin-Dragon , Mihawk-Zoro , Nami- Weather something bla bla. Only Sanji was sent place where he hate most . And oda preferred to depict his character deformation like that in the FI arcs . Not good but understandable.
Lastly , dog case. Sanji always acted for Nami and Robin or one girl. Why was it such a problem when you said it verbally? Meaningless to me .