Character Discussion Why is it so hard for some of you to accept that Sanji is a tragedy post the TS, Oda absolutely butchered this char...
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Didn't watch it and never will. If you need 38 min to proof that his character got better you are not convincing anyone.
Now I see what you are saying. You think that you know better than average people about story aspect and hard concepts that you may have learned on colleger or any other place then only you or someone similar is viable to analyze if the story got better or not.
Let me simplify to you, majority of One Piece fans AGREE that pre-timeskip is better than post-timeskip. Ok? This is undebatable. It's a fact. Doesn't matter if the people know or not how to analyze the story, it is what majority of fans think.
The pace is ridiculous. Another common sense. Try to explain how panels and panels of meaningless running is density. This is what Dressrosa, WCI and Wano did the most. Also a lot of unresolved plots which mean they weren't needed to be added in first place.
You mean that Marineford Saga had build up arcs? We have that since East Blue. Arlong Park was the first arc which we had a build up since Orange Town because of Nami's introduction. Then we had Alabasta which started at Whiskey Peak.
The problems with new arcs is exactly the amount of secondary plots. What do you even mean about secondary plots in first place? Secondary fights either than Luffy? What was the secondary plot of all arcs until here? Arlong Park has any secondary plot other than beating Fishmen Pirates, saving the village, helping Nami and get her as a nakama? Alabasta had any other plot than saving the country and Vivi? Skypea I can understand that there is the plot of saving the island but also showing how Noland wasn't a liar. Water 7 and Enies Lobby we are saving Robin and Usopp understanding what it means to be on a crew. Thriller Bark is only about saving themselves from Moriah(more specifically Luffy that had his shadow stole). Marineford Saga is all about saving Ace, there is no secondary plot.
Fishmen Island: saving Royal Family, showing fishmen you are good not evil, saving Fishmen Island, making a bond between fishmen and humans.
Punk Hazard: starting an alliance against a Shichibukai and a Yonko, saving kids from a mad scientist, expose corruption on marines, expose spy on pirates(Aokiji, couldn't describe this plot better).
I can go on and on with other arcs. Just proved to you how early arcs were most focused for not having multiple plots so Oda could be really dense on the main plot while new arcs has so many plots that he can't be denser so he has to make incredibly long arcs to fullfill all plots.
Pre-timeskip is not better because of Marineford Saga. To many people Marineford Saga isn't even the peak of pre-timeskip but Enies Lobby it is.
Which is exactly my point. He didn't had a role. I could even understand not having a role at Fishmen and Punk Hazard since they are smaller arcs but Wano? This is just poor writting. Oda had plenty of time to develop Usopp at Wano. At least all the Strawhats that not participated at WCI should have had better development in Wano. They are there first for nothing.
He didn't shined at Dressrosa. He had a fight against one of the Doflamingo commanders, okay. A fight that no one remembers. I just know because someone told me that some days ago when I was arguing that Brook didn't had a fight in the whole post-timeskip.
WCI he didn't had a fight but he stole Big Mom's Red Poneglyph. That is narratively huge for sure but still not that great for his character.
He didn't nothing at Wano. He handled fodders so Robin could have her fight. Nothing to add his character just to make the plot move forward.
What Robin did at Dressrosa? She stopped Hakuba? She participated on Diamante fight? Does anyone even remember? She had any development to her character?
Forgetting that Sanji is a fighther when since his introduction he has being introduced as one. Do you remember? Baratie? The sea restaurant where cooks fight costumers(usually pirates I guess) and they have to be tough cooks because there is no one near to help them. Sanji is the strongest and fights Gin. Then at next arc he is pretty well established as one of the Monster Trio. And all important key arcs of pre-timeskip he has a fight. Now we take all that and throw away because he has to be kind? And let's not forget that he still clashing with people and hates his family. He is not that kind. He is brute, he is a MAN. He is not a fucking woman. WCI starts with Sanji fighting his own brother and breaking his face but offscreen. That is fake hype. Then he fights his father but he lost because he didn't wanted to harm the clones. Okay I get that this was the narrative but the fake hype for Sanji fighting in the arc is clear. And let's not forget that Mr.Kind Guy beat the shit out of his own captain until he passed out, "oh he cried, he was more emotional hurt than Luffy" but he did anyway.
So no, don't pretend as Sanji shouldn't have to fight and that Oda didn't hyped him to do it. Again I'm not watching any bullshit video you present to me.
Again only you is viable to decide who understand and who doesn't, right? Unlike 99% of Sanji fanbase I don't like what Oda made to Sanji, I don't like his power up, I think that his character was destroyed both in WCI and Wano. I'm the one different here not you.
This isn't hard to understand, even you Mr.Narrative PhD can understand that. Sanji is suppose to be a gentleman. A gentleman doesn't THINK about hitting a woman. Oda made Sanji think about it. Like Sanji would hit a woman if he could but for whatever reason he can't. This is stupid. The truth about Sanji until this very chapter is that he never think in hitting a woman. He is always protecting ladies that what he did chapteres ago while he got trapped by Black Maria. To have him saying that he wish he could hit a woman is destroying one of the base of his characters.
No. It is not perfectly for his character and even less for Yonko Saga plot. I would say that since Zoro's "Nothing Happened" moment Oda was setting up all Strawhats to have a moment saying they truly believe in Luffy for everything and that he would become King of Pirates. So Sanji doing that destroys this narrative aswell as his character. This was a poor Luffy vs Usopp 2.0 that also they didn't had a reason to fight but they were both enraged with so much going on that still fits into narrative plus they were young and rookies, they are more mature now at New World.
And you can't explain.
No he wasn't. He was so fast to kick Oven that he didn't saw what happened and people though Pound was the one who did(even Pound).
Yes he accepted... We saw how he destroyed Raid Suit and thought he was losing his emotions and becoming a monster like his brothers. That's really how someone accept himself and his past... You would be right if Sanji didn't had destroyed his Raid Suit and really had lost his emotions and became like his brothers. But he didn't. So you are ridiculously wrong.
Yes, just you Mr. Narrative PhD is viable to analyze correct everything about One Piece. Please enlight us with your wisdom. But make arguments, "you don't understand, you are wrong" are not viable arguments but I'm pretty sure you are well aware of that.
Now I see what you are saying. You think that you know better than average people about story aspect and hard concepts that you may have learned on colleger or any other place then only you or someone similar is viable to analyze if the story got better or not.
Let me simplify to you, majority of One Piece fans AGREE that pre-timeskip is better than post-timeskip. Ok? This is undebatable. It's a fact. Doesn't matter if the people know or not how to analyze the story, it is what majority of fans think.
The pace is ridiculous. Another common sense. Try to explain how panels and panels of meaningless running is density. This is what Dressrosa, WCI and Wano did the most. Also a lot of unresolved plots which mean they weren't needed to be added in first place.
You mean that Marineford Saga had build up arcs? We have that since East Blue. Arlong Park was the first arc which we had a build up since Orange Town because of Nami's introduction. Then we had Alabasta which started at Whiskey Peak.
The problems with new arcs is exactly the amount of secondary plots. What do you even mean about secondary plots in first place? Secondary fights either than Luffy? What was the secondary plot of all arcs until here? Arlong Park has any secondary plot other than beating Fishmen Pirates, saving the village, helping Nami and get her as a nakama? Alabasta had any other plot than saving the country and Vivi? Skypea I can understand that there is the plot of saving the island but also showing how Noland wasn't a liar. Water 7 and Enies Lobby we are saving Robin and Usopp understanding what it means to be on a crew. Thriller Bark is only about saving themselves from Moriah(more specifically Luffy that had his shadow stole). Marineford Saga is all about saving Ace, there is no secondary plot.
Fishmen Island: saving Royal Family, showing fishmen you are good not evil, saving Fishmen Island, making a bond between fishmen and humans.
Punk Hazard: starting an alliance against a Shichibukai and a Yonko, saving kids from a mad scientist, expose corruption on marines, expose spy on pirates(Aokiji, couldn't describe this plot better).
I can go on and on with other arcs. Just proved to you how early arcs were most focused for not having multiple plots so Oda could be really dense on the main plot while new arcs has so many plots that he can't be denser so he has to make incredibly long arcs to fullfill all plots.
Pre-timeskip is not better because of Marineford Saga. To many people Marineford Saga isn't even the peak of pre-timeskip but Enies Lobby it is.
Which is exactly my point. He didn't had a role. I could even understand not having a role at Fishmen and Punk Hazard since they are smaller arcs but Wano? This is just poor writting. Oda had plenty of time to develop Usopp at Wano. At least all the Strawhats that not participated at WCI should have had better development in Wano. They are there first for nothing.
He didn't shined at Dressrosa. He had a fight against one of the Doflamingo commanders, okay. A fight that no one remembers. I just know because someone told me that some days ago when I was arguing that Brook didn't had a fight in the whole post-timeskip.
WCI he didn't had a fight but he stole Big Mom's Red Poneglyph. That is narratively huge for sure but still not that great for his character.
He didn't nothing at Wano. He handled fodders so Robin could have her fight. Nothing to add his character just to make the plot move forward.
What Robin did at Dressrosa? She stopped Hakuba? She participated on Diamante fight? Does anyone even remember? She had any development to her character?
Forgetting that Sanji is a fighther when since his introduction he has being introduced as one. Do you remember? Baratie? The sea restaurant where cooks fight costumers(usually pirates I guess) and they have to be tough cooks because there is no one near to help them. Sanji is the strongest and fights Gin. Then at next arc he is pretty well established as one of the Monster Trio. And all important key arcs of pre-timeskip he has a fight. Now we take all that and throw away because he has to be kind? And let's not forget that he still clashing with people and hates his family. He is not that kind. He is brute, he is a MAN. He is not a fucking woman. WCI starts with Sanji fighting his own brother and breaking his face but offscreen. That is fake hype. Then he fights his father but he lost because he didn't wanted to harm the clones. Okay I get that this was the narrative but the fake hype for Sanji fighting in the arc is clear. And let's not forget that Mr.Kind Guy beat the shit out of his own captain until he passed out, "oh he cried, he was more emotional hurt than Luffy" but he did anyway.
So no, don't pretend as Sanji shouldn't have to fight and that Oda didn't hyped him to do it. Again I'm not watching any bullshit video you present to me.
Again only you is viable to decide who understand and who doesn't, right? Unlike 99% of Sanji fanbase I don't like what Oda made to Sanji, I don't like his power up, I think that his character was destroyed both in WCI and Wano. I'm the one different here not you.
This isn't hard to understand, even you Mr.Narrative PhD can understand that. Sanji is suppose to be a gentleman. A gentleman doesn't THINK about hitting a woman. Oda made Sanji think about it. Like Sanji would hit a woman if he could but for whatever reason he can't. This is stupid. The truth about Sanji until this very chapter is that he never think in hitting a woman. He is always protecting ladies that what he did chapteres ago while he got trapped by Black Maria. To have him saying that he wish he could hit a woman is destroying one of the base of his characters.
No. It is not perfectly for his character and even less for Yonko Saga plot. I would say that since Zoro's "Nothing Happened" moment Oda was setting up all Strawhats to have a moment saying they truly believe in Luffy for everything and that he would become King of Pirates. So Sanji doing that destroys this narrative aswell as his character. This was a poor Luffy vs Usopp 2.0 that also they didn't had a reason to fight but they were both enraged with so much going on that still fits into narrative plus they were young and rookies, they are more mature now at New World.
And you can't explain.
No he wasn't. He was so fast to kick Oven that he didn't saw what happened and people though Pound was the one who did(even Pound).
Yes he accepted... We saw how he destroyed Raid Suit and thought he was losing his emotions and becoming a monster like his brothers. That's really how someone accept himself and his past... You would be right if Sanji didn't had destroyed his Raid Suit and really had lost his emotions and became like his brothers. But he didn't. So you are ridiculously wrong.
Yes, just you Mr. Narrative PhD is viable to analyze correct everything about One Piece. Please enlight us with your wisdom. But make arguments, "you don't understand, you are wrong" are not viable arguments but I'm pretty sure you are well aware of that.
H
Disagree. Luffy looks way better after Dressrosa than after WCI.
After Dressrosa he fought against an Admiral in base(G2 and G3 are considered base because they no longer have drawbacks like they used to or like G4). Which implies that he had a chance of winning if he went G4.
G4 is what set Luffy to be on Admiral level.
Then WCI destroyed that idea since Big Mom weirdly one-shotted G4 Luffy(wasn't one-shotted but seems like) and then Kaido actually one-shotted him in Wano.
After Dressrosa he fought against an Admiral in base(G2 and G3 are considered base because they no longer have drawbacks like they used to or like G4). Which implies that he had a chance of winning if he went G4.
G4 is what set Luffy to be on Admiral level.
Then WCI destroyed that idea since Big Mom weirdly one-shotted G4 Luffy(wasn't one-shotted but seems like) and then Kaido actually one-shotted him in Wano.
