Character Discussion Why Monster Trio dynamic will never change and why it's one of the best things OP has to offer?
- Thread starter Julius
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Post time skip feats. Have I missed something? I see a duo claiming feat after feat, not a trio. Two are hyped up as the fifth yonko and his right hand man, the third is used as a hype tool for the villain of the week (Vergo, Doflamingo, Germa66, BM Veterans, BP Flying 6)
Wano
Luffy vs Kaido (L)
Luffy vs Apoo (L)
Zoro vs Kaido (L)
Zoro vs Apoo (W)
Zoro vs Hawkins (W)
Zoro vs Kamazou Killer (W)
Zoro vs Kyoshiro Denjiro (D)
Sanji vs Queen (TBD)
Sanji vs King (L)
Sanji vs Page One (D)
Sanji vs Black Maria (L)
WCI
Luffy vs Katakuri (W)
Luffy + Nami vs Cracker (W)
Zoro vs ---
Sanji vs Daifuku (D)
Sanji vs Oven (W)
Sanji vs Judge (L)
Sanji vs Niji (L)
Sanji vs Yonji (W)
Dressrosa
Luffy vs Doflamingo (W)
Luffy vs Chinjao (W)
Zoro vs Pica (W)
Zoro vs Fujitora (D)
Sanji vs Doflamingo (L)
Punk Hazard
Luffy vs Caesar (W)
Luffy vs Monet (L)
Zoro vs Monet (W)
Sanji vs Vergo (L)
Fishman Island
Luffy vs ES Hody (W)
Zoro vs ES Hyouzou (W)
Zoro vs Hody (W)
Sanji + Jinbei vs Wadatsumi (W)
In total
Luffy 6W 0D 3L
Zoro 7W 2D 1L
Sanji 3W 2D 6L
Wano
Luffy vs Kaido (L)
Luffy vs Apoo (L)
Zoro vs Kaido (L)
Zoro vs Apoo (W)
Zoro vs Hawkins (W)
Zoro vs Kamazou Killer (W)
Zoro vs Kyoshiro Denjiro (D)
Sanji vs Queen (TBD)
Sanji vs King (L)
Sanji vs Page One (D)
Sanji vs Black Maria (L)
WCI
Luffy vs Katakuri (W)
Luffy + Nami vs Cracker (W)
Zoro vs ---
Sanji vs Daifuku (D)
Sanji vs Oven (W)
Sanji vs Judge (L)
Sanji vs Niji (L)
Sanji vs Yonji (W)
Dressrosa
Luffy vs Doflamingo (W)
Luffy vs Chinjao (W)
Zoro vs Pica (W)
Zoro vs Fujitora (D)
Sanji vs Doflamingo (L)
Punk Hazard
Luffy vs Caesar (W)
Luffy vs Monet (L)
Zoro vs Monet (W)
Sanji vs Vergo (L)
Fishman Island
Luffy vs ES Hody (W)
Zoro vs ES Hyouzou (W)
Zoro vs Hody (W)
Sanji + Jinbei vs Wadatsumi (W)
In total
Luffy 6W 0D 3L
Zoro 7W 2D 1L
Sanji 3W 2D 6L
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He was stronger than the whole crew, at this point Zoro and Sanji are stronger than Jinbei and have potential to grow much more. Thats a fact. With that panel just prove that Zoro and Sanji would be able to do the same without getting neg diffed. I also don't expect Sakazuki to be the same he was at Marineford
And yeah, i said that "pre-TS Jinbei was stronger than the whole crew", thats also a fact
And yeah, i said that "pre-TS Jinbei was stronger than the whole crew", thats also a fact
Thats literally the only thing Luffy and Sanji managed to do against Big Mom in WCI, Luffy and Sanji were the first ones to clash against her in a serious way, keep in mind she isn't starving or in hunger pangs mode here. So Luffy, the Captain, and Sanji, the Left hand, clashed against an Younko for the first time with the same goal, deal with this.
Sanji was protecting Reiju, there was no reason for him to fight Big Mom, Big Mom basicly got ignored in the rooftop, Luffy didn't even bothered with her. Nami, Brook, Franky and Jinbei all of them got moments against Hunger Pangs BM retarded mode and some of them against her "normal state", and it doesn't mean shit to the powerscaling, just memes. Sanji isn't hitting women either. Stop using pre-TS Jinbei to compare, pre-TS Jinbei was stronger than the whole crew.
Sanji was protecting Reiju, there was no reason for him to fight Big Mom, Big Mom basicly got ignored in the rooftop, Luffy didn't even bothered with her. Nami, Brook, Franky and Jinbei all of them got moments against Hunger Pangs BM retarded mode and some of them against her "normal state", and it doesn't mean shit to the powerscaling, just memes. Sanji isn't hitting women either. Stop using pre-TS Jinbei to compare, pre-TS Jinbei was stronger than the whole crew.
"Hurt a little"
"Noticeable damage"
Man, I guess the Supernova didn't damage Kaido at the beginning then?
Sanji's attacks makes Queen go "Ughh" and even broke his skull/teeth.
Third point I agree, both Jinbei and Sanji have to prove themselves.
And how does Jinbei scales from YC1-YC2 just because he fought with Ace?
And Who's Who YC2?
Man can't even take out Drake without asking for Queen's help.
"Noticeable damage"
Man, I guess the Supernova didn't damage Kaido at the beginning then?
Sanji's attacks makes Queen go "Ughh" and even broke his skull/teeth.
Third point I agree, both Jinbei and Sanji have to prove themselves.
And how does Jinbei scales from YC1-YC2 just because he fought with Ace?
Man can't even take out Drake without asking for Queen's help.
And WW obviously called Queen not because he could not defeat Drake, but because he did not want to spend more energy than he had to when dealing with problems (same thing with launching his crew against Jinbei).
I don't assume Akainu or Jinbe are any stronger than they were... but they definitely aren't weaker either. Sanji wouldn't be able to block his punch at all by himself at any point, probably not even with the Raid Suit. He'd wake up ten seconds later thankful for his life... unless for some reason we assume King > Marineford Akainu.
Luffy is stronger, we know that because he engaged an admiral and drew blood against Kaido. Zoro is stronger because he did the same. Sanji?
Luffy is stronger, we know that because he engaged an admiral and drew blood against Kaido. Zoro is stronger because he did the same. Sanji?
So what you're doing isn't the basic powerscaling, you're discussing about situations, you're saying that if an Admiral has a shitty Observation Haki he wouldn't defeat Katakuri cuz Katakuri's Observation is better, in that case, Sanji defeats anyone who doesn't have a good observation haki if he gets invisible. Zoro fight in the rooftop just showcased Enma and his AP, nothing more, he wasn't fighting alone and he nearly died in a 2~3 secs by trying to hold Hakai, if it wasn't for the Elixir he would stay out for the whole war, in the same arc he got distracted by fodder and pierced with ease. The gap between Admiral and YC must be considerably lower than an Younko and an YC, so King's divebomb must be stronger than a random punch from Marineford Akainu. None of Sanji's siblings showed that much endurance, not even close, even in the Raid Suit, the Raid Suit helped him to tank it but it's far from being the major reason of why he was barely hurt, Raid Suits aren't destroyed so easily even if the user gets heavily damaged. Considering what a full Zoan Queen did to Big Mom, an Younko, and how easily he could tank her raw physical attacks and get back up quickly, Sanji after beating Queen can mess with any Admiral and give atleast a low/mid diff, Zoro has things he needs to develop, what he did in the rooftop isn't the same of fighting an YC, and that why he IS fighting an YC.
But there is nothing indicating that the gap between them is big, but most likely the opposite.
But they are comparable, they are super comparable, thats literally what Oda intended with them since their introduction, at the moment Queen's feats are even better, their bounties will just settle this down like it is supposed to be. What makes no sense is some people trying to say Who's Who is close or equal to Queen when you have absolutely nothing to support that.
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That's what I was referring to, it's not exactly to be catalogued like a small amount, conversely. Expecially in the offchance Sanji will merely manage to solo Queen but under extreme diff.
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But they are comparable, they are super comparable, thats literally what Oda intended with them since their introduction, at the moment Queen's feats are even better, their bounties will just settle this down like it is supposed to be. What makes no sense is some people trying to say Who's Who is close or equal to Queen when you have absolutely nothing to support that.
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I only wrote that Jinbe's getting shot by fodder, does not equal Jinbe weaker than Who's Who's. I wasn't the one who wrote the Sanji case, it was someone else who brought me into the discussion (look at the previous posts).
Lol exactly what i have been trying to say. Before Sanji's fight with Queen in the Wano Arc, Sanji fans have been using the same kinda feats for Sanji that they are dismissing it for jinbe in this arc.
Now they are saying that Jinbe's feats previous to the Wano Arc no longer matter (Jinbe vs Akainu, Jinbe vs Big Mom), just because he's fighting Who's Who, is just downright hypocritical.
I've been saying this all along, and every time a Sanji fan sees it, they just bring up the point of "Sanji fighting a All Star and Jinbe is just fighting a Topi Roppo" all over again every time.
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But Pre-TS Jinbei tanking Dai Funka is exactly the Jinbei feat I was talking about. Not using it is unfair for Jinbei.
Now they are saying that Jinbe's feats previous to the Wano Arc no longer matter (Jinbe vs Akainu, Jinbe vs Big Mom), just because he's fighting Who's Who, is just downright hypocritical.
I've been saying this all along, and every time a Sanji fan sees it, they just bring up the point of "Sanji fighting a All Star and Jinbe is just fighting a Topi Roppo" all over again every time.
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Was it ever confirmed that Queen's skull cracked from Sanji's kick?
And WW obviously called Queen not because he could not defeat Drake, but because he did not want to spend more energy than he had to when dealing with problems (same thing with launching his crew against Jinbei).
That's why he needed Queen to beat him. By that logic, Black Maria and her crew have to stop Sanji from rampaging across the hall.
Monster trio will not change. And also dynamics won't change .
What is dynamics ?
Luffy : strongest but dumb. All decisions composed of emotional. Careless. But as a fighting style , he can find new tecnique. Just he take care of crew member thing. Like Robin, sanji arc.
Zoro : beast . Loyal . Don't like responsibility. Just care what luffy said. And without fight , he provides luffy how a captain behave in the ship. Usopp vs Luffy , punk Hazard warning etc...
Sanji : sanji and crew relationship is stronger than luffy and zoro. His role is kinda protector of crew. The most emotional character in crew. Even though he is weaker than luffy and zoro , without girls thing, he is very clever character about fight and serious.
So , all of them has a special side that are at best.
Dynamics always works like that.
When we look at the wano , you will see same thing.
As a beast , zoro made one of the most impressive move. ( cut Kaido) . At the same time sanji saved Raid. ( momo , Tama, chopper , alliance army ) .
People always talk about who is stronger.
When I check these event , what they did is equally smae thing in terms of importance.
And iam happy. Because that is dynamics .
What is dynamics ?
Luffy : strongest but dumb. All decisions composed of emotional. Careless. But as a fighting style , he can find new tecnique. Just he take care of crew member thing. Like Robin, sanji arc.
Zoro : beast . Loyal . Don't like responsibility. Just care what luffy said. And without fight , he provides luffy how a captain behave in the ship. Usopp vs Luffy , punk Hazard warning etc...
Sanji : sanji and crew relationship is stronger than luffy and zoro. His role is kinda protector of crew. The most emotional character in crew. Even though he is weaker than luffy and zoro , without girls thing, he is very clever character about fight and serious.
So , all of them has a special side that are at best.
Dynamics always works like that.
When we look at the wano , you will see same thing.
As a beast , zoro made one of the most impressive move. ( cut Kaido) . At the same time sanji saved Raid. ( momo , Tama, chopper , alliance army ) .
People always talk about who is stronger.
When I check these event , what they did is equally smae thing in terms of importance.
And iam happy. Because that is dynamics .
Honestly I don't even really think that bounties difference is a great parameter judging how the gap between Perospero-Cracker Cracker-Katakuri was similar yet the gaps don't look similar. At least usually the hightest bounty means strongest within a singular specific yonko crew environment however.
I think the best way to look at the matter is looking for more feats and then speculate.
I think the best way to look at the matter is looking for more feats and then speculate.
Who's Who said, "Drake is someone I can't handle on my own."
That's why he needed Queen to beat him. By that logic, Black Maria and her crew have to stop Sanji from rampaging across the hall.
And that dialogue by WW strikes me as odd, considering he is fighting a former Shichibukai who is above any Tobi Roppo by reputation alone. Unless you believe Drake, who was stalled by Apoo, is actually stronger than either WW or Jinbei.
The SFX got used in some other certain aspects but it's mostly used for cracking and breaking sound.
About Drake and Who's Who, one is a Supernova and the latter are fighting a former Warlord. Logically, WsW should win but I doubt WsW can push Jinbei to high or extreme diff. Drake is fighting Apoo right now but doesn't mean that they're both weaker than F6.
About Drake and Who's Who, one is a Supernova and the latter are fighting a former Warlord. Logically, WsW should win but I doubt WsW can push Jinbei to high or extreme diff. Drake is fighting Apoo right now but doesn't mean that they're both weaker than F6.
Alright, then, if Queen's skull is really cracked, how is he still running around when even Big Mom got knocked out by a crack in her skull? After all, we both know Queen's durability and endurance are a joke compared to Linlin's.
Speaking of which, since you stated that you don't think WW will even pusb Jinbei to a high diff fight, does that mean you see Jinbei doing something else once WW is down?
Speaking of which, since you stated that you don't think WW will even pusb Jinbei to a high diff fight, does that mean you see Jinbei doing something else once WW is down?