General & Others Why Oda has no abilty to write about oppression.

#41
I feel like you really missed what I said tbh, You mentioned powerscaling in your essay I skimmed through. And I’m saying DragonBall Z most likely is the cause of this mentality in the anime community as a whole especially since it came out before Naurto or One Piece. Also not sure why you hate the Timeskip Era cause that’s when the Straw hats crew gets major character development from what I heard.
Dragon ball z was never in the conscious of one piece fans so you don't make sense.
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Btw agree mostly with the fishmen stuff bc there is no deeper reason give why they and humans should be BFF except for friendship tolerance etc and why they should live somewhere else
Duh. Your either smarter or more honest that the rest of these fools.
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Btw agree mostly with the fishmen stuff bc there is no deeper reason give why they and humans should be BFF except for friendship tolerance etc and why they should live somewhere else
They are surrounded by unlimited food resources peace etc. Why would they even want to live above water. To see the sun that they can visit anytime. To see a forest give me a fucking break. They can literally rule the seas and build land where ever they want.
 
#44
I mean he's the same dude that thinks replacing a bad monarch with a good monarch will solve everything, and magma's hotter than any flame ever. Elementary, childish type beat. There isn't much depth to be found in One Piss, and most people that are fans of this shit have more fun theory crafting/headcanoning and powerscaling than the content in the chapter itself. It is what it is, yeah?

Anyways I agree with your sentiment. Oda can't seem to write a multi-faceted narrative that looks upon a multitude a perspectives, and instead can only have a good guy vs bad guy story, which is rather typical, though the situations in these arcs would be more substantive if done so. I especially hate how in Wano it seems like the Wano people that fought were more so doing it for Oden's honor rather than the lives of the Wano citizens, and this is the same dude that left them to go on a pirate journey, and when he came back he allowed Orochi and Kaido to call the shots for years while dancing damn near butt naked like a complete tard. It also strikes me as odd that not a single person threw critique at Oden for what he has done and allowed, but instead spread positive propaganda of his exploits, which shows that Loda shows no care to showcase the Wano residents as nothing more than Oden cheerleaders, which was pretty disgusting imo.
 
#46
Who was Moriah oppressing? The dead shadows??
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So who do you replace a bad monarch with?
Moria stole shadows from regular people and pirates alive even marines who had to hide from the sun

On the second part I think of Gadaffi. Libya was the most prosperous place in africa at the time now it's hell. Truth is places and leaders develop naturally. They become living nightmares when influenced by foreign entities. Look at Afghanistan.
 
#47
Moria stole shadows from regular people and pirates alive even marines who had to hide from the sun

On the second part I think of Gadaffi. Libya was the most prosperous place in africa at the time now it's hell. Truth is places and leaders develop naturally. They become living nightmares when influenced by foreign entities. Look at Afghanistan.
- Yea that would make him a terrorist or an evil pirate, not an oppressive ruler. Thought you were aiming the point at Oda's inability to make oppressive rulers aka people ruling countries and islands.

- But that has nothing to do with a bad vs good ruler. And let's not try to simplify it with simply foreign influence, ignoring the pent up issues that were in Libya due to Gaddafi's own actions.

- Afghanistan has been shithole for multiple reasons. Even without western influence. Let's not get into that.
 
#48
- Yea that would make him a terrorist or an evil pirate, not an oppressive ruler. Thought you were aiming the point at Oda's inability to make oppressive rulers aka people ruling countries and islands.

- But that has nothing to do with a bad vs good ruler. And let's not try to simplify it with simply foreign influence, ignoring the pent up issues that were in Libya due to Gaddafi's own actions.

- Afghanistan has been shithole for multiple reasons. Even without western influence. Let's not get into that.
Thriller bark was one of the arcs I said Oda did good with the representation of oppressors. He stole the Shadows of Lola and her crew. They were living on thrillerbark and ploting to get rid of Moria by any means. They ran to the shadows when the sun was coming up and the strawhats stayed which was a good representation of their differences in will. Maybe good is a stretch but I never complained about thriller bark.
 
#49
So who do you replace a bad monarch with?
Well a complete overhaul of the government system for one. Like a republic or really any other alternative. But really what I meant by that is that we never had an example of public discourse of whether or not these monarchs/empires are just, need slight tweaks, or outright destroyed altogether.
 
#50
Well a complete overhaul of the government system for one. Like a republic or really any other alternative. But really what I meant by that is that we never had an example of public discourse of whether or not these monarchs/empires are just, need slight tweaks, or outright destroyed altogether.
When has the destruction of a leader ever been good for the people. I can't think of any. I'm not familiar with people like chev. You know the batista hat guy.
 
#53
Well a complete overhaul of the government system for one. Like a republic or really any other alternative. But really what I meant by that is that we never had an example of public discourse of whether or not these monarchs/empires are just, need slight tweaks, or outright destroyed altogether.
I mean that's one route, but the idea that monarchy replacing a monarchy doesn't lead to good for the people also doesn't work, since there's plenty of historical examples of monarchs replacing others and being good for the people. But I also don't believe Oda has yet explored such an scenario anyway.
Alabasta - Monarchy
Dressrosa - Monarchy
Wano - Monarchy
FMI - Monarchy

These are the ones we've really seen on panel that the SHs have gone to. And the issue in all of em was that the "good monarchs" ie, Riku/Cobra/Neptune/Shogun were replaced or taken over by evil men like Crocodile/Kaido/Doffy/Hody. So all the strawhats do is revert them back to their original states before the said evil took over and reinstalling the original authority of the country that was making the country propser. So what's the point of an overhaul in these, when the restoration works perfectly well. Even with the restoration you still get changes to the country's systems. IE, Wano becoming more progressive. Alabasta getting ministers like Koza. (Hmm idk if Riku made any changes, but he also didn't really need to & same for Neptune).

What Oda's focused on so far is the restoration of the original and saving them from an outside force that takes over via influence.

Alabasta -> Saved from the outside force of Crocodile and his influence
Dressrosa -> Saved from the outside force of Doflamingo and his insane influence
Wano -> Saved from the outside force of Kaido and his insane fluence

FMI -> Didn't have an outside influence, but more of a civil war scenario. Where it's the SHs helping the reigning monarchy quell the civil war.

The only ones who're completely overthrowing governments and replacing them with new ones, are the RA. And we have 0 idea on them and their process since Oda hasn't explored their ideals and workings yet. And for that we'll have to wait until end of the series, when they get more indepth exploration.
 
#55
When has the destruction of a leader ever been good for the people. I can't think of any. I'm not familiar with people like chev. You know the batista hat guy.
Well the complete overhaul of the Qing Dynasty had an objectively positive effect for the people, regardless of our opinions on the current Chinese government. I sure there are several other examples, but my point has less to do with the results being positive or negative, but rather the citizens wanting change to a system the severely hurt them, even if the circumstance behind it was unusual as there may be those that believe the governmental system established in the country allowed such an exception to be possible in the 1st place.
 
#56
I mean he's the same dude that thinks replacing a bad monarch with a good monarch will solve everything, and magma's hotter than any flame ever. Elementary, childish type beat. There isn't much depth to be found in One Piss, and most people that are fans of this shit have more fun theory crafting/headcanoning and powerscaling than the content in the chapter itself. It is what it is, yeah?

Anyways I agree with your sentiment. Oda can't seem to write a multi-faceted narrative that looks upon a multitude a perspectives, and instead can only have a good guy vs bad guy story, which is rather typical, though the situations in these arcs would be more substantive if done so. I especially hate how in Wano it seems like the Wano people that fought were more so doing it for Oden's honor rather than the lives of the Wano citizens, and this is the same dude that left them to go on a pirate journey, and when he came back he allowed Orochi and Kaido to call the shots for years while dancing damn near butt naked like a complete tard. It also strikes me as odd that not a single person threw critique at Oden for what he has done and allowed, but instead spread positive propaganda of his exploits, which shows that Loda shows no care to showcase the Wano residents as nothing more than Oden cheerleaders, which was pretty disgusting imo.
Agreed about oden. He was also in fault but no samurai said anything about it.
 
#57
I mean that's one route, but the idea that monarchy replacing a monarchy doesn't lead to good for the people also doesn't work, since there's plenty of historical examples of monarchs replacing others and being good for the people. But I also don't believe Oda has yet explored such an scenario anyway.
Alabasta - Monarchy
Dressrosa - Monarchy
Wano - Monarchy
FMI - Monarchy

These are the ones we've really seen on panel that the SHs have gone to. And the issue in all of em was that the "good monarchs" ie, Riku/Cobra/Neptune/Shogun were replaced or taken over by evil men like Crocodile/Kaido/Doffy/Hody. So all the strawhats do is revert them back to their original states before the said evil took over and reinstalling the original authority of the country that was making the country propser. So what's the point of an overhaul in these, when the restoration works perfectly well. Even with the restoration you still get changes to the country's systems. IE, Wano becoming more progressive. Alabasta getting ministers like Koza. (Hmm idk if Riku made any changes, but he also didn't really need to & same for Neptune).

What Oda's focused on so far is the restoration of the original and saving them from an outside force that takes over via influence.

Alabasta -> Saved from the outside force of Crocodile and his influence
Dressrosa -> Saved from the outside force of Doflamingo and his insane influence
Wano -> Saved from the outside force of Kaido and his insane fluence

FMI -> Didn't have an outside influence, but more of a civil war scenario. Where it's the SHs helping the reigning monarchy quell the civil war.

The only ones who're completely overthrowing governments and replacing them with new ones, are the RA. And we have 0 idea on them and their process since Oda hasn't explored their ideals and workings yet. And for that we'll have to wait until end of the series, when they get more indepth exploration.
Neptune took all of Hody's men and added them to their army. I believe it was 80 thousand fishman in Neptune's army. Don't sleep on him.

That's my whole thing in saying that nobody could fuck with the Fishman if they were serious about protecting their homeland.
 
#58
Well the complete overhaul of the Qing Dynasty had an objectively positive effect for the people, regardless of our opinions on the current Chinese government. I sure there are several other examples, but my point has less to do with the results being positive or negative, but rather the citizens wanting change to a system the severely hurt them, even if the circumstance behind it was unusual as there may be those that believe the governmental system established in the country allowed such an exception to be possible in the 1st place.
Looool as if crocodile Doffy etc care if they have to remove a king or president to get what they want
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Agreed about oden. He was also in fault but no samurai said anything about it.
St oden can do no wrong
 
#59
I mean that's one route, but the idea that monarchy replacing a monarchy doesn't lead to good for the people also doesn't work, since there's plenty of historical examples of monarchs replacing others and being good for the people. But I also don't believe Oda has yet explored such an scenario anyway.
Alabasta - Monarchy
Dressrosa - Monarchy
Wano - Monarchy
FMI - Monarchy

These are the ones we've really seen on panel that the SHs have gone to. And the issue in all of em was that the "good monarchs" ie, Riku/Cobra/Neptune/Shogun were replaced or taken over by evil men like Crocodile/Kaido/Doffy/Hody. So all the strawhats do is revert them back to their original states before the said evil took over and reinstalling the original authority of the country that was making the country propser. So what's the point of an overhaul in these, when the restoration works perfectly well. Even with the restoration you still get changes to the country's systems. IE, Wano becoming more progressive. Alabasta getting ministers like Koza. (Hmm idk if Riku made any changes, but he also didn't really need to & same for Neptune).

What Oda's focused on so far is the restoration of the original and saving them from an outside force that takes over via influence.

Alabasta -> Saved from the outside force of Crocodile and his influence
Dressrosa -> Saved from the outside force of Doflamingo and his insane influence
Wano -> Saved from the outside force of Kaido and his insane fluence

FMI -> Didn't have an outside influence, but more of a civil war scenario. Where it's the SHs helping the reigning monarchy quell the civil war.

The only ones who're completely overthrowing governments and replacing them with new ones, are the RA. And we have 0 idea on them and their process since Oda hasn't explored their ideals and workings yet. And for that we'll have to wait until end of the series, when they get more indepth exploration.
My point has less to do with the replacement of the government system being just or unjust, bad or good, but rather that its rather strange that there's no sign of discourse around whether changing how things are ran from the people will be beneficial or not, which makes these citizens seen more like robots rather than actual people. I'm not even saying that the people should want to completely overthrow the system, but just want even some tweaks to it that the people can get behind, like setting up representatives in the government or something even smaller than that.

There's was the Drum Kingdom where Wapol, who was the natural successor of his father, ruined the kingdom by being short-sighted, a coward, and selfish. He killed all the doctors that weren't the 20 best because reasond, ran the kingdom with an iron grasp, and took all the soldiers and doctors when his country was invaded by the Blackbeard Pirates, leaving his people high and dry. Despite this there were no talks of governmental changes amongst the people though this would be the perfect time as Drum Kingdom is an example of a legitmate good monarchy can suddenly change to a legitimate bad monarchy just from a change of the King. Yes it got a good king again, but what's not to say he'll be replaced with someone like Wapol when he passes?

Speaking of kingdoms I realized that the likely reason that pretty much every government is either a Kingdom or a Dynasty is because it's the easiest one for Oda to write as they're less complicated as a system than something like a republic, and coincidentally every governmental person the Straw Hats had helped were perfectly good people that wouldn't cause unforseen consequences that would be indirectly the Straw Hats' fault.

As for the Revolutionaries I honestly find them godawful as Luffy and the Straw Hats, who's been doing this shit for less than a year, made a more impressive impact on freeing the people from unjust tyranny than Dragon did. It's so bad for Dragon that Sabo quickly overtook Dragon's mantle as the most important figure of the Revolutionaries to the public's eye, which is rather peculiar to say the least. Some quick explanation of the Revolutionaries' exploits is rather lazy as instead of seeing the build up happening naturally it'll likely be exposited to us. Also the Revolutionaries only have a problem with the World Government, not all bad governments as a whole so yea.
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Looool as if crocodile Doffy etc care if they have to remove a king or president to get what they want
You know? I find it quite odd how no one in the story, including those in power, tries to questions how individuals like Doffy and Crocodile can be stronger than a nation's whole army, which only makes it more obvious how artificial the world is. And the discussions about the government doesn't have to be about overthrowing, but can be about the comparatively less grand things like trying to fix the obvious problem that the military force of the government are less than prepared for an attack by maniacal individuals. It rather perplexing on how lax the people are about their situation when you think about it. Almost like they weren't written to have brains or something.
 
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