Questions & Mysteries Why was King not considered a swordsman?

[Kurozumi Giggio]

My definition of Swordsman is the best i think

Swordsman = "fighter who's combat style is MOSTLY based on the use of his sword"
where the definition of "MOSTLY" is arbitrary , but a good base point is this

Number of attacks that are sword based = X
Number of attacks that are not sword based = Y

IF X >Y then you are a swordsman
IF not
you are not a swordsman

Examples :
King is not a swordsman because most of his attacks against Zoro were martial style attacks ( Kicks , Punches , Beak attacks , Fire projectiles , explosions )

Law is a swordsman , most of his attacks are clearly sword based ( his awakening literally coats his sword) yet he has SOME attacks that are not sword based like Gamma knife and a few other

Big Mom is not a swordsman , she clearly has FAR FAR more Non sword based attacks ( Lightning attacks , fire balls , AdvCoC punches , Maser cannon ETC ETC ETC )

 

[zenox]

because king doesnt give a shit about swords and he doesnt follow the path of the sword

meanwhile u got all these guys here following the path of the sword and being swordsmen

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

My definition of Swordsman is the best i think

Swordsman = "fighter who's combat style is MOSTLY based on the use of his sword"
where the definition of "MOSTLY" is arbitrary , but a good base point is this

Number of attacks that are sword based = X
Number of attacks that are not sword based = Y

IF X >Y then you are a swordsman
IF not
you are not a swordsman

Examples :
King is not a swordsman because most of his attacks against Zoro were martial style attacks ( Kicks , Punches , Beak attacks , Fire projectiles , explosions )

Law is a swordsman , most of his attacks are clearly sword based ( his awakening literally coats his sword) yet he has SOME attacks that are not sword based like Gamma knife and a few other

Big Mom is not a swordsman , she clearly has FAR FAR more Non sword based attacks ( Lightning attacks , fire balls , AdvCoC punches , Maser cannon ETC ETC ETC )

Doesn´t work because both King and BM have used more swordsmanship moves than Law ever has. Law just channels his DF abilities through his long sword, using it as scalpel. It´s not something that works without his DF, which is his main arsenal.
Big Mom can use powerful sword based attacks, combines sword attacks with fire, lightning and so forth.

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

Doesn´t work because both King and BM have used more swordsmanship moves than Law ever has. Law just channels his DF abilities through his long sword, using it as scalpel. It´s not something that works without his DF, which is his main arsenal.
Big Mom can use powerful sword based attacks, combines sword attacks with fire, lightning and so forth.

channeling your DF power in your sword strikes is still swordsmanship , just like Fujitora channels his gravity attacks in his sword.
If we use the regular definition of sword attacks , Law wouldn't have a single sword attack , yet Oda said he is a swordsman wich means channeling your DF powers in your sword strikes is swordsmanship

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

channeling your DF power in your sword strikes is still swordsmanship , just like Fujitora channels his gravity attacks in his sword.

Nah it isn´t, because swordsmanship has no role in it. Akainu´s magma attacks are not reliant on his boxing, it´s his DF ability.

 

[CaptainJackSparrow]

If oda calls you a swordsman then you’re a swordsman, it’s literally his story.

Shanks, Fujitora, Rayleigh and even Law are all swordsman according to the author.

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

Nah it isn´t, because swordsmanship has no role in it. Akainu´s magma attacks are not reliant on his boxing, it´s his DF ability.

depends on your definition of swordsmanship :
my definition of swordsmanship is "using your sword to attack" , what's your definition?

 

[Mohammad211]

maybe because he didn't had any sword style? also its seems that his sword was mechanical sword that could change it shape (probably it was made by queen or king forced wanos blacksmiths to make it for him)
its seems to be depend on person if they/oda consider them a swordsman they are swordsman even if they have df and other ability (racial power and etc)

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

depends on your definition of swordsmanship :
my definition of swordsmanship is "using your sword to attack" , what's your definition?

Your sword being relevant to the attack´s potential. .

 

[Sir Yasheen]

A fighter can decide their fighting style. Kaku believes himself a swordsman. Mr. 1 and King dont

 

[Fn Lucci]

Doesn´t work because both King and BM have used more swordsmanship moves than Law ever has. Law just channels his DF abilities through his long sword, using it as scalpel. It´s not something that works without his DF, which is his main arsenal.
Big Mom can use powerful sword based attacks, combines sword attacks with fire, lightning and so forth.

Law is one of few characters with a pedigree we actually know. He has legit sword skills and his attacks would change considerably without his sword.

 

[roronoa_fan]

As a newgate who wielded an ultimate blade, his main style and strongest attacks go beyond the sword.

 

[park_min young]

Law/Fuji are swordsmen but it’d be just as disingenuous to automatically put Mihawk/Zoro over them just because of technicality. We see that Fuji/Law whole-ass arsenal relies on bending the laws of physics. Unlike haki and swordsmanship, df is more separable. Haki just enhances physical attacks and swordsmanship, df is the source of the attack. Law will cut you and you won’t bleed, the most counterintuitive concept for a guy using a sword.

Law‘s ”sword” attacks literally has more similarities to Enel’s than your closest swordsman. There’s a reason neither Zoro or Mihawk have dfs, it detracts them from being focused on the way of the sword — getting on top through pure dedication and training. Having a swordsman with a mastered and awakened Gura being the WSS feels undeserving. BM also can’t be classified under swordsmen because she clearly doesn’t rely on it.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Doesn´t work because both King and BM have used more swordsmanship moves than Law ever has. Law just channels his DF abilities through his long sword, using it as scalpel. It´s not something that works without his DF, which is his main arsenal.
Big Mom can use powerful sword based attacks, combines sword attacks with fire, lightning and so forth.

They all do the same shit i.e., they channel their powers through their swords—It could be Haki, df ability, physical strength, or some kind of trick like firefox style. Swords are never the source of someone's power; they're just a medium by which you channel your powers. Law's not some kind of special exception here.

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

Your sword being relevant to the attack´s potential. .

Yes Law's sword is relevant , he is channeling his DF powers in the sword , if you wanna say that the sword doesn't matter then why does Law do it ? Law is above average intelligence he wouldn't do something meaningless in combat , so the swordsmanship is a factor.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

The thing people in the OP community need to understand the most is that swordsmanship isn't specifically designed to fight other swordsmen. Mihawk could fight Kaido or Akainu just as well as he could fight Shanks. And he's suddenly not gonna feel helpless and lose just because Shanks stops using his sword and starts throwing punches or kicks. Zoro's been dealing with all kinds of people in his journey towards the WSS. He hasn't been just fighting pure swordsmen and ignoring everything else.

If a swordsman could react to and block a sword attack that's island level+ with FTL+ speed, then nothing's stopping them from blocking a kick/weapon/punch/energy that's equally powerful and fast. Hypothetically speaking, if Zoro could dominate Law in a sword fight, then he's not gonna suddenly feel helpless when Law starts using abilities like counter shock or Mess. The same goes for Fujitora too. If he could match Fujitora's gravity attack that comes out of his sword, then he's not gonna crumble before rocks or meteors that Fujitora throws at him.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

They all do the same shit i.e., they channel their powers through their swords—It could be Haki, df ability, physical strength, or some kind of trick like firefox style. Swords are never the source of someone's power; they're just a medium by which you channel your powers. Law's not some kind of special exception here.

No because you disregard the effect of the sword itself.
A sword attack is not only a channeling of physical power, it is a combination of force, the capabilities of the sword (form, sharpness) and the technique to apply force.
There is a significant difference in someone attacking with the same force but using his fist or a knife or a sword, the last two are much more potent in dealing damage.
Haki only further increases the potency of your attack from whatever it was before, it´s an addition, not variation.

Now you would need to prove to me how better "swordsmanship" would increase the potency of Law´s attack, or someone like Fuji´s for example. Because both do not use the potency of the sword/swordsmanship but the potency of their DF ability, their capabilities, at best, comes in only defensively.

Post automatically merged: Aug 29, 2022

Yes Law's sword is relevant , he is channeling his DF powers in the sword , if you wanna say that the sword doesn't matter then why does Law do it ? Law is above average intelligence he wouldn't do something meaningless in combat , so the swordsmanship is a factor.

See above for explanation.
Furthermore because using a weapon is always better if you have a certain mastery.
The least it does is provide you with an additional defensive layer vs any kind of attack really, Fuji is the best example who only used it defensively.

Post automatically merged: Aug 29, 2022

Law/Fuji are swordsmen but it’d be just as disingenuous to automatically put Mihawk/Zoro over them just because of technicality. We see that Fuji/Law whole-ass arsenal relies on bending the laws of physics. Unlike haki and swordsmanship, df is more separable. Haki just enhances physical attacks and swordsmanship, df is the source of the attack. Law will cut you and you won’t bleed, the most counterintuitive concept for a guy using a sword.

Law‘s ”sword” attacks literally has more similarities to Enel’s than your closest swordsman. There’s a reason neither Zoro or Mihawk have dfs, it detracts them from being focused on the way of the sword — getting on top through pure dedication and training. Having a swordsman with a mastered and awakened Gura being the WSS feels undeserving. BM also can’t be classified under swordsmen because she clearly doesn’t rely on it.

More or less, though that is linked to what kind of DF it is and how it is used.
Shiryu is a DF user, his attack potency, as far as we know, still relies solely on his swordsmanship, the invisibility DF just makes it more likely for him to hit.
Onigumo is a DF user, and while his DF certainly adds to his potency, he still mainly relies on swordsmanship and so forth.

It´s a spectrum rather than an absolute classification, just that Law and Fuji are on the edge of said spectrum.
Law uses his sword as scalpel, not as a sword (at least offensively), him being more potent in swordsmanship has never been shown in being more potent in his DF ability, even more so for Fuji.

 

[Weeman]

It's not like there's an official classification for "swordsman".
I think it's just by the some vague perception the individuals may have regarding a "honourable" or "correct" kind of swordsmanship. Think of Zoro and Mihawk sharing the sentiment of how wounds on the back are considered a shame for a swordsman, or how breaking a blade is also disgraceful. They have a deeper and more intimate connection with their swords and the discipline of swordsmanship.

People like BM or King use a sword but probably don't adhere to these sort of unspoken codes and only use them as tools, along with whatever other abilities they have.

That doesn't mean they aren't "swordsmen", just that they don't personally adhere to whatever this unspoken "code" of swordsmanship is.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

No because you disregard the effect of the sword itself.

No, I did not disregard the sword's effect. I simply said Law's usage of a sword is no different from that of Big Mom as far as it concerns the powers being used because you used the fact that Law's df is the source of his power as a reason to differentiate him from the likes of Big Mom and Fujitora. You never made a reference to the difference swords make.

A sword attack is not only a channeling of physical power, it is a combination of force, the capabilities of the sword (form, sharpness) and the technique to apply force.
There is a significant difference in someone attacking with the same force but using his fist or a knife or a sword, the last two are much more potent in dealing damage.
Haki only further increases the potency of your attack from whatever it was before, it´s an addition, not variation.

I said, "They all channel their powers through their swords," not that sword attacks are channeling of just physical power. I even gave a list of powers that could be channeled through the swords:

They all do the same shit i.e., they channel their powers through their swords—It could be Haki, df ability, physical strength, or some kind of trick like firefox style.

Obviously, you could use a combination of these powers just so we're clear. Whatever you use to produce your attacks, you channel that through your swords and it comes out at different potentials based on your sword quality. All swords are sharp and have a form(whatever that means). Sure, some swords have better quality than others but your sword's quality and its impact on your attacks don't determine how close you are to being a swordsman if that's what you're trying to say.

Yes, sharp objects are more potent than blunt stuff. And Haki adds to your power; no one said otherwise. I just listed it as a power you can channel via your sword. These are things everyone already knows but what are you trying to prove with that though?

Now you would need to prove to me how better "swordsmanship" would increase the potency of Law´s attack, or someone like Fuji´s for example. Because both do not use the potency of the sword/swordsmanship but the potency of their DF ability, their capabilities, at best, comes in only defensively.

There is nothing to prove here because we already know how strong swordsman Law is. If there is someone that needs to prove anything, it's you because you seem to imply Law would be or rather Law's attacks would be as strong as they are even without his blade. I don't know specifically how much Law's curse sword helps in making his attacks as strong as they are but I do know for a fact that PH Law with his sword could cut through Vergo and PH facility when he has his sword. Now prove to me he can do that with a wooden stick or punch.

Also, I know Fujitora can produce a small hill-level attack when he uses Raging Tiger with his sword. Prove us he can do the same or better with a gravity punch. The burden of proof lies on you because I am not the one making claims here.

P.S. also, the logic you're trying to apply to Law can be applied to pure swordsmen too. There are some swordsmen who use inferior swords to others meaning the impact of the sword on the attacks produced will be lower for them. That does not make them less of a swordsman than people who get bigger improvements from their swords. And there are swordsmen who do not use much technique too and they're not lesser swordsmen than others.

 

[Robin swan]

He is a swordsman he just doesn't use a traditional style that he forces himself to stick to. If king saw his sword didn't work on a opponent he wouldn't hesitate to throw it away because it'd become useless for him to win a fight. It's not that he isn't a swordsman but that he wouldn't rely solely on swordsmanship to win a fight. He'd use anything at his disposal to win.