Versus Battle WorstGen’s Second Annual (???) Great General’s Tournament: Winner’s Bracket, Round 2

[Lee Ba Shou]

The Winner’s Bracket Continues:

The rules:

Spoiler

-The rules are simple, vote for whoever you think would win the scenario presented. We will try to do more scenarios than just straight 1v1 army battles to keep it interesting.

-Winners will be determined by poll vote, so make sure to vote and convince everyone that yours is the one true agenda!

-I will try to do as much as I can to keep these tournament scenarios interesting, but definitely let me know if you guys have any cool ideas.

-You are allowed to use historical spoilers in discussions, but spoiler tag them and people don’t have to read them if they don’t want to.

I used a tournament maker app to keep the opening brackets random, but for some reason Duke Hyou and Yotanwa got immediate advantages. I do not know why this is but far be it from me to quibble about my own parameters.

Winners Brackets

Make sure to read each commander’s subs and armies!

Winners Brackets will take place at Dakan Plains. Each commander starts off on flat land with two large hills in the center of the field, controlled by neither party initially.

Round 2

Gokei

-Gokei will lead an army of 100,000 Wei troops of his choosing
-Gokei will have 100 Wei War Chariots at his disposal
-Gokei will have all of his Dakan Plains vassals (Kyuugen, Hakukisai, the Two Assassins, etc)

Versus

Hakuki

-Hakuki will lead a Qin army of 100,000 troops of his choosing.
-Since Hakuki has no known vassals, feel free to assume that Hakuki has all of his prime vassals. So he’s not missing any vassals he would have had in his prime.

But wait!

Gokei’s plan to imprison the Wei Fire Dragons has paid off:

-As Gokei will be joined by Earl Shi of Wei as his vassal.
-Shi Ei will bring another 20k troops along to battle.
-Let us discuss Chiyoyou Earl Shi for simplicity’s sake.

So to be clear, this is Hakuki and his 100,000 vs Gokei and his 120,000 including Earl Shi as his vassal.

Who wins and why?

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚

 

[Shanks]

HakuKi is already the final winner of this whole Tournament. This man alone without any other 6gg can invade Chu and capture Chu's capital Ying. So even two fire dragons together can't stop him. Lol

 

[RayanOO]

HakuKi is already the final winner of this whole Tournament. This man alone without any other 6gg can invade Chu and capture Chu's capital Ying. So even two fire dragons together can't stop him. Lol

Riboku > Hakuki for me

And Gakuki hype is pretty high too

 

[FutureWarrior123]

I'll give this one some more thought.

My gut says Hakuki though. He has a undefeated record for a reason, and I doubt these two would suddenly put an end to that.

And since we are allowed to consider theoretical vassals, then we know this isn’t strictly a 2v1 scenario. I think we even see some high ranking officer to the left of Hakuki in that image.

Definitely high-extreme diff though. In fact, Hakuki will be the side to take significantly more losses, which can’t be helped when you’re facing against the demon spear master who has the weight of his stepsis behind those vicious thrusts of his.

Like I said, I can see myself changing my mind after I see what others here say but I’m gonna go with Hakuki.

 

[Rumble]

It might have been for the best to exclude GGs that didn’t appear in the story.

Or maybe this particular match up should’ve had Go Kei with Gai Mou and Earl Shi versus Haku Ki with Kyou and Ou Kotsu serving as deputies?

 

[Bepo]

Hakuki is basically Ousen on steroids, he has an insane track record as the leader of the previous 6 GG. Gokei and Earl Shi is a dangerous combination but there's no reason why Hakuki doens't have atleast one powerful subordinate since most top-tiers usually do have. I'm going with Hakuki.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Lee the contrarian strikes again


So yes, Hakuki vs Gokei is pretty obvious win for Hakuki, which is in part why I gave him Earl Shi to make things more interesting.

Hakuki was the best general of his era, but that certainly doesn’t make him invincible. In the right scenario I think a victory can certainly be clutched out against him by two commanders of Gokei and Shi Ei’s caliber.

Gokei is probably a better mind than anyone Hakuki has ever fought. I assume Hakuki’s most fearsome intellectual opponent was Renpa at Chouhei, I guess it’s possible he had done battle against Rinshoujou or Chousha or Rei Ou but we simply don’t know if he did for sure. In the intellectual battle, I would give Gokei the nod over Renpa and I think Gokei is better positioned to give Hakuki a strategic run than Renpa is.

Martially people really seem to sleep on Hakuki more than an I do. I’m not repeating my Hakuki thread but I think he was probably an amazing warrior. Yes I know what the stats say. Hakuki fought against Renpa for two years straight and I find it virtually impossible that he didn’t cross blades with Renpa or Kaishibou at least once during that time. Which tells me that Hakuki is strong enough that he probably martially beats everyone of Gokei’s vassals with the exception of Earl Shi who thinks get more debatable against.

I reread some of Shi Ei vs Ouhon and even at Chiyoyou Shi Ei was just a complete menace as a warrior. His speed, experience, and power were perfect with Ouhon stating several times that his spear had no flaws or openings to exploit. Assuming Hakuki could defeat even Chiyoyou Earl Shi to me is somewhat of a stretch, but I assume Hakuki is at least strong enough to give Shi Ei a good run.

So Hakuki is up against one of the best minds of all time, and one of the best warriors of all time, yeah I’m going to assume they can clutch it. I’m not against Hakuki having Akou level vassals but I don’t think Akou level guys would be able to turn the tides against Gokei and Shi Ei.

This post brought to you by the Earl Shi wank gang.

 

[God Buggy]

Gokei is a top tier Great General, with the highest amount of knowledge in the state of Wei. He got hugely praised by Ouki. I'd give him the W against many other Great Generals that we know. That being said, unfortunately for him Hakuki isn't amongst them. As terrifying as Gokei could be on the battlefield, Hakuki was even more. Hakuki > Gokei.

As for the subordinates, we obviously don't know what Hakuki had. Some Great Generals have zero (Duke Hyou), some others have an amazing whole ass set. But the most reasonable thing is to assume that Hakuki had a powerful army.

Earl Shi is a great addition to Gokei but the bottom line is, I really cannot bet against Hakuki here.

 

[Monet]

hakuki would mob the floor with those 2 .
someone who has this magnificent huge record he must have great set of amazing generals under him. because this amazing long record demand a steady good generals always with him.
this why i think he has some like Tou under him or maybe two generals close to Tou and gyoun .

 

[Shanks]

Riboku > Hakuki for me

And Gakuki hype is pretty high too

Just compare these two feats (one according to manga while other according to actuality as not much showed yet in manga about HakuKi)

- HakuKi alone invaded mightiest state of warring era in China, Chu, without any aid of other GG or state and even captured there capital Ying.

- Riboku formed strongest coalition and an army as well to invade Qin but couldn't even capture an inch of Qin's land.

Other than just this feat, Riboku lost in his own state (losing land too) as well as in foreign land as well while HakuKi has undefeated record while also expanding Qin's land and massacred around a million in his military career.

 

[Bullet]

Hakuki is a top 3 goat imo
Hakuki stands above the likes of Gokei even if he's a 6gg caliber general himself
As the most notorious general of his era it would be reasonable to assume he'd have a bunch of strong vassals just as Renpa, Ouki, RSJ etc used to have so Earl Bum isn't making much diffrence, as he can be dealt with by a couple of Hakuki's vassals.
Hakuki wins.

 

[MarineHQ]

I'm actually going with Gokei. Yes. Hakuki has that crazy portrayal, I mean the way Renpa talked about him is like some unbeatable monster. Certainly catching Hakuki might actually be impossible for any general inverse but he can definitely lose a battle and retreat.

Gokei was the greatest military mind in all of Wei, he completely wrecked the Duke's army while preparing for an incoming Ouki attack.

Then we give Gokei 100 war chariots and Earl Shi as a vassal ?

I think Gokei takes it.

 

[Owl Ki]

Hakuki in these circumstances beats Gokei if Gokei was the only GG opponent facing him. However Gokei plus Earl Shi together might be enough to clinch an extreme diff victory for Wei.

The only other thing to consider though is that the setting is Dakan Plains, meaning that Wei would be under threat of of invasion in this scenario and well, we have seen how suicidally stubborn Gokei can be when his home is under threat. Lol.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

meaning that Wei would be under threat of of invasion in this scenario and well, we have seen how suicidally stubborn Gokei can be when his home is under threat. Lol.

Well let’s just pretend a Wei invasion scenario doesn’t apply here for simplicity’s sake. Lol

 

[Bullet]

I think Earl Shi is being overestimated here
Tou relied on a couple of teenagers to outplay and slay 2 fire dragons
You really telling me Earl Shi is a bigger advantage to have than whatever right and left hand Hakuki would have had in his days?
Worst case scenario 2 vassals team up and take his head or weaken his army.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

You really telling me Earl Shi is a bigger advantage to have than whatever right and left hand Hakuki would have had in his days?

Yes. No Qin 6 had vassals capable of bigger upsets than Shin and Ouhon lol.

Shi Ei is high diffing Hakuki’s vassals at worst.

 

[Shanks]

Yes. No Qin 6 had vassals capable of bigger upsets than Shin and Ouhon lol.

Tou under Ouki in previous known 6GG while Bajio under YTW in current 6GG (in future, Kyoukai under Shin. Lol)

 

[Bepo]

I think Earl Shi is being overestimated here.

To be fair, he was a great general, one of the Fire dragons, slayed three of the other Fire dragons and was considered the best spear wielder in all of China. He was also not really in his element when he fought Ouhon justifying his defeat.

 

[Bullet]

Yes. No Qin 6 had vassals capable of bigger upsets than Shin and Ouhon lol.

Shi Ei is high diffing Hakuki’s vassals at worst.

His high diffing 1 of his Vassals
What about the rest?
That arc was already ages ago
Shin and Ouhon had gotten much stronger and still needed to upset RSJ's vassals
Hakuki is gonna have 4-5 really good commanders at worst
What happens when his Gyou'Un teams up with his CGR, uses a Hakuki instructed tactic and takes his 8 glaives or whatever to face Bum Shi's army?
There would still be a bunch of other vassals and strong subordinates going around and Gokei has no one in his army capable of matching them.
I'd say Hakuki alone could overcome all of Gokei's subordinates without the need of his vassals and can let all of them gang up on a man who was outplayed and slayed by 4000 man commander Ouhon.

 

[MarineHQ]

Ousen vs Riboku has proven that stronger subordinates make the difference. Gokei vs Hakuki is undoubtedly an equal matchup, not many of the current generals deserve to be put above Gokei in a strategic battle, Hakuki does but again it won't be a wash.

I'm assuming Hakuki only has formations to work with and at best an elite unit. I think we'll never see an OP vassal of his, Qin is stacked as they are rn.