Versus Battle WorstGen’s Second Annual (???) Great General’s Tournament: Winner’s Bracket, Round 2

[Bullet]

To be fair, he was a great general, one of the Fire dragons, slayed three of the other Fire dragons and was considered the best spear wielder in all of China. He was also not really in his element when he fought Ouhon justifying his defeat.

I think i'm giving him his respect but he's just not capable of overcoming all of Hakuki's Vassals by himself.
If Hakuki had subordinates of Heavenly King or 10 hero caliber who are picking?
All of the Heavenly Kings are also GG tier caliber and notorious in China, not to his level probably but i'm taking a combination of any of 2 HK over Earl Shi and that still leaves out half of them.

 

[God Buggy]

If Hakuki had subordinates of Heavenly King or 10 hero caliber who are picking?

If you give Hakuki a subordinate group that compares to the Four Heavenly Kings/Ten Heroes in terms of overall quality of the collective, Wei gets destroyed here. Lol.

 

[Bullet]

If you give Hakuki a subordinate group that compares to the Four Heavenly Kings/Ten Heroes in terms of overall quality of the collective, Wei gets destroyed here. Lol.

It's reasonable to assume he had them
Most notorious general of his time, leader of Qin 6 etc.. but he doesn't even need all of that to overcome this situation
if he just has let's say Takuki and Bakuki or whatever, 2 guys that are close to that HK tier which is a minimum of what i think he would have had he is beating these 2.

 

[God Buggy]

Gokei vs Hakuki is undoubtedly an equal matchup, not many of the current generals deserve to be put above Gokei in a strategic battle, Hakuki does but again it won't be a wash.

Yeah Hakuki would be capable of doing it but I agree, I don't think many others would achieve this against Gokei straight up.

For example, I doubt Ouki or Renpa would be able to tactically outmanouver him and they are excellent strategists.

And either of them against Gokei would pretty much be a 50/50 battle imo. Ouki really did give the bloke a whole lot of praise.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Tou under Ouki in previous known 6GG while Bajio under YTW in current 6GG (in future, Kyoukai under Shin. Lol)

Did Hakuki have any vassals who became Qin 6? No

Did Hakuki have any vassals that were said to be capable of becoming Qin 6? No

Downplaying Shi Ei because he lost to Ouhon is dumb, Ouhon is one of the future best GGs of all time. Hakuki didn’t have any vassals capable of what Ouhon is capable of.

His high diffing 1 of his Vassals
What about the rest?

The rest of who? Completely unknown vassals of zero renown? If Hakuki’s vassals were similar to Ouki’s vassals then Shi Ei low diffs them all simultaneously. Tou excluded ofc but Hakuki didn’t have anybody on Tou’s level.

 

[Bullet]

Did Hakuki have any vassals who became Qin 6? No

Did Hakuki have any vassals that were said to be capable of becoming Qin 6? No

Downplaying Shi Ei because he lost to Ouhon is dumb, Ouhon is one of the future best GGs of all time. Hakuki didn’t have any vassals capable of what Ouhon is capable of.

What is this nonsense
Shi Ei didn't lose to prime Ouhon so why even write this garbage?
Mangoko lost to Shin but do you understand how insanely accomplished Shin is gonna be? What do you mean Akou crushes him?
Did Akou become a GG that achieved Unification?

The rest of who? Completely unknown vassals of zero renown? If Hakuki’s vassals were similar to Ouki’s vassals then Shi Ei low diffs them all simultaneously. Tou excluded ofc but Hakuki didn’t have anybody on Tou’s level.

But he has Tou
He has Rokoumi and many others
And he had Kyou too
But who gives a shit
Hakuki had constant battles against Renpa and the likes
If RSJ has 10 why wouldn't i give Hakuki 2?
If Rei Ou had Ranbihaku or the Bandit has Zenou it's far fetched to assume Hakuki's Vassals could team up and beat this pathetic weakling who was introduced alongside 3 of peers and lost to a subordinate of Ouki who sat back and left them to teenagers?
I promise you if it was Hakuki and 2 other Qin 6 that came back to life Tou wouldn't consider this a time to test the new generation

Hakuki could beat these guys without impressive Vassals anyway i just decided to give him a couple to not have to argue over it
If you are gonna assume he doesn't have them because you like this pathetic irrelevant weakling then be my guest it's not like we have any confirmed 4000 man commander level guys under Hakuki yet.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Lee the contrarian strikes again


So yes, Hakuki vs Gokei is pretty obvious win for Hakuki, which is in part why I gave him Earl Shi to make things more interesting.

Hakuki was the best general of his era, but that certainly doesn’t make him invincible. In the right scenario I think a victory can certainly be clutched out against him by two commanders of Gokei and Shi Ei’s caliber.

Gokei is probably a better mind than anyone Hakuki has ever fought. I assume Hakuki’s most fearsome intellectual opponent was Renpa at Chouhei, I guess it’s possible he had done battle against Rinshoujou or Chousha or Rei Ou but we simply don’t know if he did for sure. In the intellectual battle, I would give Gokei the nod over Renpa and I think Gokei is better positioned to give Hakuki a strategic run than Renpa is.

Martially people really seem to sleep on Hakuki more than an I do. I’m not repeating my Hakuki thread but I think he was probably an amazing warrior. Yes I know what the stats say. Hakuki fought against Renpa for two years straight and I find it virtually impossible that he didn’t cross blades with Renpa or Kaishibou at least once during that time. Which tells me that Hakuki is strong enough that he probably martially beats everyone of Gokei’s vassals with the exception of Earl Shi who thinks get more debatable against.

I reread some of Shi Ei vs Ouhon and even at Chiyoyou Shi Ei was just a complete menace as a warrior. His speed, experience, and power were perfect with Ouhon stating several times that his spear had no flaws or openings to exploit. Assuming Hakuki could defeat even Chiyoyou Earl Shi to me is somewhat of a stretch, but I assume Hakuki is at least strong enough to give Shi Ei a good run.

So Hakuki is up against one of the best minds of all time, and one of the best warriors of all time, yeah I’m going to assume they can clutch it. I’m not against Hakuki having Akou level vassals but I don’t think Akou level guys would be able to turn the tides against Gokei and Shi Ei.

This post brought to you by the Earl Shi wank gang.

Gyou'un said he fought to claim the heads of all Qin 6.

I think that implies Rinshoujou fought Hakuki at least once.

Post automatically merged: Feb 8, 2024

I also don't think Hakuki had any subordinate close to Tou

Maybe his right hand was KyouEn or Gyou'un level at best

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Shi Ei didn't lose to prime Ouhon so why even write this garbage?

Because the young Qin trio have bursts of that level of talent. This is why they have had several moments where despite their youth, they have moments where they are compared to the Qin 6. Because they are capable of punching far above their weight class in a way that the likes of Akou cannot. Shin slayed Houken, Akou is not capable of that. Ouhon slayed Shi Ei, Akou is not capable of that. The young Qin trio have always had bursts of 6GG level talent and you know this…lol

Mangoko lost to Shin but do you understand how insanely accomplished Shin is gonna be?

The difference is we know Mangoku’s general level. No idea why you would bring this up lmfao. Mangoku was stalled by Kanou and Rinbou, and Shin’s victory over Man’U was never portrayed as a Qin 6 level feat the way his victory over Houken or Gaku Ei was.

Shouheikun literally almost skipped 5K man commander and bumped Ouhon up to General from Chiyoyou. Shi Ei is someone whose talent was compared to the Qin 6 and defeated at least 3 other high GG level opponents in the past. Not even sure why you’d bring Mangoku up? lol

If RSJ has 10 why wouldn't i give Hakuki 2?

2 what? Guys who would get high diffed by Shi Ei? Sure, go ahead.

If Rei Ou had Ranbihaku or the Bandit has Zenou

Ranbihaku got stalled in a 2v1 against Sento’Un, and Zenou really accomplished nothing before his death aside from a desperate play at Jyoukaryuu. Why you would think these guys would be game changers against Shi Ei who battled the Qin 6 or the Zhao 3, I do not know. Lol

I promise you if it was Hakuki and 2 other Qin 6 that came back to life Tou wouldn't consider this a time to test the new generation

You pulled this from your ass lol. The Wei 7 were outright said to have battled the Qin 6 and the Zhao 3 and their talent was said to be on that level. Tou was very weary of even Rei Ou alone. You’re just making stuff up now lol.

 

[Bullet]

I also don't think Hakuki had any subordinate close to Tou

Maybe his right hand was KyouEn or Gyou'un level at best

He doesn't need a Tou
All he needs are a couple good ones
If he has a Kyou En and a Rinko he takes this
If he has a Akou, Denrimi and Shiryuu etc.. he takes this

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

He doesn't need a Tou
All he needs are a couple good ones
If he has a Kyou En and a Rinko he takes this
If he has a Akou, Denrimi and Shiryuu etc.. he takes this

I can't see Sanyou Shin victim and S-Shin victim making a difference against Earl. Same with Shiryou and Denrimi.

Hakuki may just runaway, I doubt he's anymore than a high diff for Earl Shi in a duel

 

[Monet]

Yes. No Qin 6 had vassals capable of bigger upsets than Shin and Ouhon lol.

Shi Ei is high diffing Hakuki’s vassals at worst.

nah ouki had Tou

 

[Bullet]

I can't see Sanyou Shin victim and S-Shin victim making a difference against Earl. Same with Shiryou and Denrimi.

Hakuki may just runaway, I doubt he's anymore than a high diff for Earl Shi in a duel

Not everything is a 1 v 1
They could devastate his army, stop his avdnace or tag team him
What is Earl doing to Akou's Shell and joints?
What happens when Denrimi's Killing Squad, Akou and Shiryuu tag team him?
What happens when Kyou En traps him and Rinko devastates his army with his offensive formation while KyouEn himself is there to give a hand and snipe him?
This guy is good and i'll put him above the vast majority of Vassals but he's not even close to being capable of overcoming all of them by himself which he needs to do if you are gonna give Gokei this match up

 

[𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚]

Hakuki is a candidate of the GOAT debate. Mf has insane portrayal, hype, service record. He is basically peak Ousen. Leader of qin six, hardest to deal with according to renpa and kyouen, everyone were talking about him when six GG system was revived.... And it's just goes on.

Gokei is also a one of the greatest strategic mind of all time . His pride didn't let him retreat and he lost to Duke otherwise he likely would have beaten him . He was also recognised by lips Sama and was stated to be the most dangerous threat to all neighbouring states of Wei and even if ouki were to join the battle victory wouldn't be certain.
And the addition of earl shi definitely has the potential to influence the outcome of the battle. As stated by ouhon during sanyou "after all 1000 man unit is an entity that is at a scale where it's action can affect the battlefield as the whole. We have seen ouhon and mouten saving tou army from Karin army with 10k armies when they were surrounded during coalition war. Shouheikun joined the war with 1000 armies and managed to defeat his opponent. If competent commander is leading the army then even small troop can upset the entire battlefield as shown many times. And here we have the great general in this case who slayed three other GG so you simply can't underestimate his addition. With gokei's strategies and earl Shi's destructive power they have the chance to turn the table.

With that said it's hard to bet against someone like hakuki who is one the greatest general of warring period. We have no knowledge about his vassals so I can't really say anything about that. I guess it's fair to assume he had vassals who were on par with heavenly kings, ten heroes etc.

Overall I'll give hakuki the benefit of the doubt.

So the leader of the qin six hakuki wins the battle with high - extreme difficulty.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

I think you guys really underestimate the level of an Akou tier general.

And this was after he had already been awestruck by Ouhon's gamebreaking tactic using his GG perception.

 

[Shanks]

Did Hakuki have any vassals who became Qin 6? No

Did Hakuki have any vassals that were said to be capable of becoming Qin 6? No

Downplaying Shi Ei because he lost to Ouhon is dumb, Ouhon is one of the future best GGs of all time. Hakuki didn’t have any vassals capable of what Ouhon is capable of.

Hara hadn't showed any previous 6GGs vassals outside of Ouki's for Qin. They all either could be dead or enjoying their retirement.

Or you might be imagining previous 6GG were fighting with ordinary generals like Denrimi or Rokuomi alone and not even someone like Tou or Akou !! If you think so than those 6GG should be among gods and devils of warfare to achieve those feats with ordinary army coz you believe those vassals weren't even mentioned anywhere.

I didn't downplay EarlShi anywhere. It's just that Hakuki's notorious feats proves that not even two great GGs together could stop his advance or make him eat a defeat.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Most of the Qin 6's vassals likely weren't Heavenly King level.

I'm sure Koshou had a few heavy hitters who were martial beasts, but Heavenly King caliber characters are extremely rare and special.

I bet most of the vassals were like Rokuomi or Sou'ou, decent but not expectional. Tou is a huge expection of course.

Duke Hyou, who was on the same level didn't have anyone notable other than a 10 Bow member for a short time.

 

[God Buggy]

I think you guys really underestimate the level of an Akou tier general.

And this was after he had already been awestruck by Ouhon's gamebreaking tactic using his GG perception.

To this day, Akou's Shell and Joints formation has only been decoded by arguably the greatest mind in the manga. Prior to that, three whole armies attacking the Akou army all at the same time were all immobilized at the first line of defence with laughable ease. Lol. Not only that, the formation gets sturdier the further inside. Not only that, it can also switch the various other tactics.

Chouugaryuu was effective against Qin's Great Generals of the previous era and after Shin's army had gone through the same awakening the Qin Six did, Chouugaryuu still almost eradicated them with Kyoukai's crucial intervention literally saving the day.

And these are only two blokes, who didn't belong in the same army.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

It's just that Hakuki's notorious feats proves that not even two great GGs together could stop his advance or make him eat a defeat.

??? Renpa alone stopped both he and Ouki for two years straight.

 

[MarineHQ]

I think you guys really underestimate the level of an Akou tier general.

And this was after he had already been awestruck by Ouhon's gamebreaking tactic using his GG perception.

The young trio surpassed the HK tier in Shukai imo, this ofc doesn't mean they won't get pushed by them anymore.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

I think you guys really underestimate the level of an Akou tier general.

And this was after he had already been awestruck by Ouhon's gamebreaking tactic using his GG perception.

I don’t understand what point you are trying to make here

“Akou’s abilities may still greatly outstrip Ouhon’s”
^he is just speculating on Akou’s overall level, he has no idea how strong Akou is lol.

And you can be damn sure after the Gyoku Hou awakened and Chougaryuu was seeing visions of the Qin 6, he wasn’t considering Akou above Ouhon lol. Akou isn’t out here giving anyone visions of the Qin 6. Literally Gyou’Un and Garyuu saw fit to use a tactic designed to slay the Qin 6 themselves on Ouhon and not Akou.

Prior to that, three whole armies attacking the Akou army all at the same time were all immobilized at the first line of defence with laughable ease.

Three armies of what level? Not on the level of Shi Ei or Gokei, I’ll tell you that much lol. So if the argument is an Akou tier vassal would give Hakuki an edge against two Fire Dragons, no lol. I can guarantee you Shells and Joints isn’t lasting long when Gokei busts out the war chariots lol.