Hello everyone,
This is a thread I’ve wanted to make for a couple of years now, actually. The topic, of course,
I don’t know what it is about Kochou that I like so much. Maybe it’s the “deific” theme of himself and his commanders, maybe it’s the idea that Zhao had its own Great General exclusively devoted to defending its capital and nothing else, but I think Kochou is extremely cool. And today I want to take an in depth look at this character and try to parse his overall level. So let’s do this!
First, let’s get one thing out of the way right off the bat:
From 236-234 BC, Great General Kochou was in fact the head of the Zhao military. I often see people hyping up Genpou because he was said to be able to serve as the head of Zhao’s military. Here is Kochou serving that exact same roll.
It was also pointed out by @Cichy that Kochou was appointed Kantan’s Guardian Deity under Toujou:
Which means that Kochou was not an active Great General during the days where Gakujou was said to be the second best commander in Zhao behind Renpa.
With that out of the way, let’s establish the timeline of events for Kochou stalling out the Qin army in Zhao:
End of 236: Ousen, Yotanwa, Kanki, Ouhon, Mouten, and Shin are unable to progress into Zhao thanks to Kochou’s defense.
Beginning of 235: Kochou continues to stall out the Qin.
Beginning of 234: the Qin have been unable to make any progress in Zhao.
This means that under Kochou, Zhao stalled out Ousen, Yotanwa, Kanki, Ouhon, Mouten, and Shin for over a year straight.
In 236, we even see the Qin court discussing the matter:
“The problem is General Kochou…”
“Can Ousen or Yotanwa punch through him…”
We see the sentiment that even for multiple future members of the Qin 6, the Zhao front under Kochou will not buckle.
We also see explicitly that none of the Qin commanders can break through Kochou’s lines:
And this is with the Qin actively trying to change up their strategy to overcome him.
In 235, Shouheikun establishes the Qin-Wei Alliance to free up the Wei front and send troops into Zhao:
Kochou responds by pulling Zhao troops from the North:
Resulting in a “back-and-forth onslaught.”
It is not until 234 where Sei plays his trump card:
That the Qin are able to make any progress at all:
Now of course, the modifications that Kakukai Sama (Riboku) made to Heiyou and Bujou to make them optimal staging and resupply centers for Zhao are relevant, but again look at the sentiment expressed above: that the Qin explicitly could not break through Kochou’s lines. Resupply made Kochou able to fight a prolonged battle for sure, but resupply was never framed as the issue for why the Qin were stalled out in Zhao. Kochou’s prowess was. And it wasn’t until the revival of the Qin 6 Great Generals that Kochou himself took to the battlefield.
Now. As for Kochou’s defeat to Kanki. No excuses, Kochou did legit lose to Kanki, but I would like to point out a few facts surrounding his defeat.
Fact #1: The fatal mistake that ultimately lead to Kochou’s defeat was brought about by the fall of Eikyuu:
And without the combined Gyoku Hou and Hi Shin Units, Eikyuu would not have fallen. So it’s almost as if Kanki’s defeat of Kochou wouldn’t have been possible without the combined efforts of Shin and Ouhon. On the other hand, Kochou did have 240k against Kanki’s 80k, so there’s that.
Fact #2: the ultimate realization of the tactic Kanki was trying to pull was highlighted from two men.
I think this is a subtle way of Hara hyping Kochou’s mind, having only he and the best mind in Qin be the ones to come to the realization of the Sun Bin tactic.
Fact #3: the ultimate melee that lead to Kochou’s death was a 2:1 advantage for Kanki, and you can even see the Shuma clan ganging up on Kochou’s elites:
And in terms of martial prowess, the Shuma were Kanki’s absolute best next to the Zenou clan:
So I think Kochou’s loss was definitely more understandable when you start to realize some of these factors.
Speaking of Eikyuu, Kochou’s subordinates are a good indicator of his overall level:
Ryuuhaku and Kouhaku are of course decent and nothing more, but the enormous Chad Gakuhaku was a general of a very impressive level. Not only did he exterminate the Gyoku Hou Unit with a terrain advantage, but this guy’s martial prowess is…well. Don’t get me started.
And speaking of martial prowess, let’s end this thread in a fun way:
With Kochou giving us a quick display of his martial skill:
Reminder that the Shuma clansmen were strong as fuck, and Kochou was completely alone when he starts mowing them down.
Even after Kochou cuts his own throat, he takes a few of them with him:
Before they ultimately ganged up on him and gave us one of Hara’s prettiest double spreads:
Rip to the Guardian Deity man.
So what do we think of Kochou’s overall level? Well, ultimately I think Kochou being defeated after the revival of the Qin 6 system, and being defeated by a member of the Qin 6 is Hara showing his level, which is below the Qin 6.
However, Kochou is definitely a strong Great General. I would put him above the likes of Mougou and Choutou, and hell maybe even Ordo depending on what kind of mood you catch me in. I think he definitely has very respectable feats against the Qin 6 level commanders whereas Ordo gets fucking mugged every time he looks in a Qin 6’s general direction. Is Kochou perhaps even above Gekishin? Well, by showing I would say yes, but Gekishin has a direct hype statement from Riboku that would seem to put him above Kochou who was never outright said to be Zhao 3 level.
What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat
This is a thread I’ve wanted to make for a couple of years now, actually. The topic, of course,
I don’t know what it is about Kochou that I like so much. Maybe it’s the “deific” theme of himself and his commanders, maybe it’s the idea that Zhao had its own Great General exclusively devoted to defending its capital and nothing else, but I think Kochou is extremely cool. And today I want to take an in depth look at this character and try to parse his overall level. So let’s do this!
First, let’s get one thing out of the way right off the bat:
From 236-234 BC, Great General Kochou was in fact the head of the Zhao military. I often see people hyping up Genpou because he was said to be able to serve as the head of Zhao’s military. Here is Kochou serving that exact same roll.
It was also pointed out by @Cichy that Kochou was appointed Kantan’s Guardian Deity under Toujou:
Which means that Kochou was not an active Great General during the days where Gakujou was said to be the second best commander in Zhao behind Renpa.
With that out of the way, let’s establish the timeline of events for Kochou stalling out the Qin army in Zhao:
End of 236: Ousen, Yotanwa, Kanki, Ouhon, Mouten, and Shin are unable to progress into Zhao thanks to Kochou’s defense.
Beginning of 235: Kochou continues to stall out the Qin.
Beginning of 234: the Qin have been unable to make any progress in Zhao.
This means that under Kochou, Zhao stalled out Ousen, Yotanwa, Kanki, Ouhon, Mouten, and Shin for over a year straight.
In 236, we even see the Qin court discussing the matter:
“The problem is General Kochou…”
“Can Ousen or Yotanwa punch through him…”
We see the sentiment that even for multiple future members of the Qin 6, the Zhao front under Kochou will not buckle.
We also see explicitly that none of the Qin commanders can break through Kochou’s lines:
And this is with the Qin actively trying to change up their strategy to overcome him.
In 235, Shouheikun establishes the Qin-Wei Alliance to free up the Wei front and send troops into Zhao:
Kochou responds by pulling Zhao troops from the North:
Resulting in a “back-and-forth onslaught.”
It is not until 234 where Sei plays his trump card:
That the Qin are able to make any progress at all:
Now of course, the modifications that Kakukai Sama (Riboku) made to Heiyou and Bujou to make them optimal staging and resupply centers for Zhao are relevant, but again look at the sentiment expressed above: that the Qin explicitly could not break through Kochou’s lines. Resupply made Kochou able to fight a prolonged battle for sure, but resupply was never framed as the issue for why the Qin were stalled out in Zhao. Kochou’s prowess was. And it wasn’t until the revival of the Qin 6 Great Generals that Kochou himself took to the battlefield.
Now. As for Kochou’s defeat to Kanki. No excuses, Kochou did legit lose to Kanki, but I would like to point out a few facts surrounding his defeat.
Fact #1: The fatal mistake that ultimately lead to Kochou’s defeat was brought about by the fall of Eikyuu:
And without the combined Gyoku Hou and Hi Shin Units, Eikyuu would not have fallen. So it’s almost as if Kanki’s defeat of Kochou wouldn’t have been possible without the combined efforts of Shin and Ouhon. On the other hand, Kochou did have 240k against Kanki’s 80k, so there’s that.
Fact #2: the ultimate realization of the tactic Kanki was trying to pull was highlighted from two men.
I think this is a subtle way of Hara hyping Kochou’s mind, having only he and the best mind in Qin be the ones to come to the realization of the Sun Bin tactic.
Fact #3: the ultimate melee that lead to Kochou’s death was a 2:1 advantage for Kanki, and you can even see the Shuma clan ganging up on Kochou’s elites:
And in terms of martial prowess, the Shuma were Kanki’s absolute best next to the Zenou clan:
So I think Kochou’s loss was definitely more understandable when you start to realize some of these factors.
Speaking of Eikyuu, Kochou’s subordinates are a good indicator of his overall level:
Ryuuhaku and Kouhaku are of course decent and nothing more, but the enormous Chad Gakuhaku was a general of a very impressive level. Not only did he exterminate the Gyoku Hou Unit with a terrain advantage, but this guy’s martial prowess is…well. Don’t get me started.
And speaking of martial prowess, let’s end this thread in a fun way:
With Kochou giving us a quick display of his martial skill:
Reminder that the Shuma clansmen were strong as fuck, and Kochou was completely alone when he starts mowing them down.
Even after Kochou cuts his own throat, he takes a few of them with him:
Before they ultimately ganged up on him and gave us one of Hara’s prettiest double spreads:
Rip to the Guardian Deity man.
So what do we think of Kochou’s overall level? Well, ultimately I think Kochou being defeated after the revival of the Qin 6 system, and being defeated by a member of the Qin 6 is Hara showing his level, which is below the Qin 6.
However, Kochou is definitely a strong Great General. I would put him above the likes of Mougou and Choutou, and hell maybe even Ordo depending on what kind of mood you catch me in. I think he definitely has very respectable feats against the Qin 6 level commanders whereas Ordo gets fucking mugged every time he looks in a Qin 6’s general direction. Is Kochou perhaps even above Gekishin? Well, by showing I would say yes, but Gekishin has a direct hype statement from Riboku that would seem to put him above Kochou who was never outright said to be Zhao 3 level.
What do you guys think?
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @God Buggy @TheKnightOfTheSea @FutureWarrior123 @RayanOO @Rumble @Greenbeard @Dark Admiral @Jailer @Peroroncino @Monet @Topi Jerami @Shanks @Cichy @Bullet @mmd @Yo Tan Wa @𝓓𝓡 . 𝕋𝒆ñ𝐦𝐚 @Darkrai1381 @tcb @Pirao @Luffy is the mc @Warchief Sanji D Goat
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